# Dear El Presidente Obama, a minor point of etiquette **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586 "2009-11-14T20:19:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/21 "2009-11-14T21:59:49Z")
According to [this cite](http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/11/obamas_botched_bow.html), Obama blew it by bowing while simultaneously shaking hands. The author says this is a faux pas in Japanese ettiquette and is evident in Akihito’s polite smile of embarrassment. I have no idea if this is correct or not, but if so I can’t believe that after giving U.K.'s brown a gift of CDs, bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia, and Michelle patting the Queen of England on the back, Obama still doesn’t have someone looking into the proper protocol for visiting heads of state. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/22 "2009-11-14T22:02:32Z")
Apparently the Queen of England meeting wasn’t a failure–the Queen really liked Michelle, and she’s not exactly the warmest of people. Plus, the Queen hugged Michelle first, so you really can’t blame this on the Obamas or “kids today.” Sorry, **SA**. > **[One's new best friend: The Queen, Michelle and the new touchy-feely protocol](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1166490/Ones-new-best-friend-The-Queen-Michelle-new-touchy-feely-protocol.html)** > > She is not renowned for public displays of affection. Which made the Queen's decision to put a friendly arm around Michelle Obama's waist at a Buckingham Palace G20 reception - prompting the U.S. President's wife to return the gesture - so utterly... > [@](#): > > Finding herself next to Mrs Obama, the Queen remarked on their height difference. As she did so, her hand edged towards the small of Mrs Obama’s back. Mrs Obama responded - and even rubbed the Queen’s shoulder - before both women moved gently apart after about ten seconds. > > Read more: [One's new best friend: The Queen, Michelle and the new touchy-feely protocol | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1166490/Ones-new-best-friend-The-Queen-Michelle-new-touchy-feely-protocol.html#ixzz0WsFHrdNn) Really love the description of the queen’s hand edging towards the small of Mrs. O’s back. Sizzling! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/23 "2009-11-14T22:08:38Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Plus, the Queen hugged Michelle first, so you really can’t blame this on the Obamas or “kids today.” Sorry, **SA**. If you will recall, I don’t blame anything on the kids of today. It’s their liberal predecessors who are at fault. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/24 "2009-11-14T22:26:08Z")
It is a sign of respect. These are world leaders. Get over it. I know some people prefer the W approach of launching the tomahawks, or threatening to, but 'Bama is a little too grown up to rush to that. ---
**Author:** ![initech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/439d5e/32.png) [@initech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/initech)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/25 "2009-11-14T22:39:38Z")
I wonder if it’s possible to safely assess the competence of a president by gauging the validity of the criticisms leveled against him. Probably not. But if so, Obama is an outstanding president, because this criticism is fucking stupid. How you imagine an American president should behave isn’t important. What’s important is the result. This president has the respect of the other leaders of the world–pretty universally, as far as I can tell. That’s the result. So, I’m guessing his judgment is more effective that your “protocol.” Goddamn, it’s nice having an adult president. Maybe we’ll have an adult electorate someday. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/26 "2009-11-14T23:03:18Z")
Who the fuck gives a shit? A courteous person bows. A courteous person doesn’t mind indulging in pointless but harmless traditions. Only a dipshit makes a big deal of this. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/27 "2009-11-14T23:05:37Z")
The right wing has so little to bitch about nowadays. This is desperation. I doubt he will run around holding hands with Saudi oil sheiks. That would be interesting. This is not. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/28 "2009-11-14T23:10:42Z")
What do you care if the President wants to bow or not? It doesn’t change anything legally about the power dynamic. It’s just a sign of respect and gives him good face with people who like to be bowed to. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/29 "2009-11-14T23:15:09Z")
Unless he rolls over on his back with his arms and legs in the air, it’s not a gesture of submission. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/30 "2009-11-14T23:18:22Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What do you care if the President wants to bow or not? It doesn’t change anything legally about the power dynamic. It’s just a sign of respect and gives him good face with people who like to be bowed to. Obviously you don’t understand etiquette. We have to give them Guam now. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/31 "2009-11-14T23:28:36Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Unless he rolls over on his back with his arms and legs in the air, it’s not a gesture of submission. Actually, I think that’s how you’re supposed to greet royalty in most Scandinavian countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc). ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/32 "2009-11-14T23:49:27Z")
Apropos of very little, the wikipedia article [George H. W. Bush Vomiting Incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush_vomiting_incident)requires cleanup. Suddenly, life is worth living again. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [November 14, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/33 "2009-11-14T23:58:16Z")
I thought the proper protocol was to give them [unexpected shoulder grabs](http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001109/). ---
**Author:** ![Neverending\_Elbow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e274bd/32.png) [@Neverending\_Elbow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neverending_Elbow)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/34 "2009-11-15T00:13:52Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Actually, I think that’s how you’re supposed to greet royalty in most Scandinavian countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, **etc** ). (bolding mine) What Scandinavian countries are left? And don’t even try saying Finland, or I’ll send the hamsters after you. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/35 "2009-11-15T00:15:07Z")
> [@Neverending\_Elbow](#): > > (bolding mine) > > What Scandinavian countries are left? And don’t even try saying Finland, or I’ll send the hamsters after you. 🙂 Also, what Scandinavian countries have the juice to make anyone at all prostrate themselves? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/36 "2009-11-15T01:24:27Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Actually, I think that’s how you’re supposed to greet royalty in most Scandinavian countries (Norway, Sweden, Denmark, etc). > [@Neverending\_Elbow](#): > > (bolding mine) > > What Scandinavian countries are left? And don’t even try saying Finland, or I’ll send the hamsters after you. 🙂 :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uosdwis_R.Dewoh)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/37 "2009-11-15T01:25:29Z")
Actually, we did have a [king](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Frederick_Charles_of_Hesse) for about two months. ---
**Author:** ![muldoonthief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muldoonthief/32/3188_2.png) [@muldoonthief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/muldoonthief)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/38 "2009-11-15T01:28:48Z")
> [@Uosdwis\_R.Dewoh](#): > > Actually, we did have a [king](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Frederick_Charles_of_Hesse) for about two months. But he was elected king - that seems kind of lame. You have to be born to it, or strangle the previous king on his throne and take the crown for your own to really get some respect. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/39 "2009-11-15T01:35:20Z")
> [@muldoonthief](#): > > But he was elected king - that seems kind of lame. You have to be born to it, or strangle the previous king on his throne and take the crown for your own to really get some respect. The Kingdom of Norway chose their king after breaking away from Sweden (At least, I think it was Sweden). That was back in, oh, what – 1905? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/40 "2009-11-15T01:43:07Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > Really love the description of the queen’s hand edging towards the small of Mrs. O’s back. Sizzling! Hot monarch-on-girl action! > [@bup](#): > > Apropos of very little, the wikipedia article [George H. W. Bush Vomiting Incident](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_H._W._Bush_vomiting_incident)requires cleanup. So did the Prime Minister. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=3)