# Dear El Presidente Obama, a minor point of etiquette **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586 "2009-11-14T20:19:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/121 "2009-11-16T10:27:06Z")
Heh. The DVD thing was a non-issue, only the permanently irate Daily Mail made any mention of it in the UK, if I remember correctly. I’d rather receive the DVD collection than a pen holder and a 7 volume Churchill collection (:rolleyes:, seeing as it came across as a way of getting Churchill back into the White House, after the removal of the bust). Anyway, the DVD collection sounds better than what Bush gave Brown: a leather bomber jacket with his name emblazoned on it. Yes, Gordon Brown, who’s permanently suited, given a leather bomber jacket! ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/122 "2009-11-16T11:55:52Z")
The pen holder was pretty cool, if useless. But as a movie lover, I’d rather get the DVDs too. I still think it was a unique and innovative way to pass along and focus on American film culture, which is so often reduced to big-budget shit-blowing-up-real-good to denigrate it. To reduce the interesting gift to “buncha DVDs” denigrates American film culture too. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/123 "2009-11-16T14:47:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It might interest you to know that my political beliefs, mindset and disdain for liberalism far preceed the rise even of Limbaugh, much less relative late-comers like Beck, Hannity and O’Reilly. Those guys are getting rich not because they’re telling conservatives what to think, but because they’re plugged in to much of what liberal politicians and agitators are up to and they’re good at getting people inflamed about it. Bwahahahahahahahaha you’ve got nothing to be proud of being a sniveling syphilitic right wing anal cyst before fellow cysts like Beck and Hannity came along. You’re worthless and stupid and I hope every hateful jackass of a candidate you vote for loses. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/124 "2009-11-16T15:01:32Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Anyway, the DVD collection sounds better than what Bush gave Brown: a leather bomber jacket with his name emblazoned on it. Yes, Gordon Brown, who’s permanently suited, given a leather bomber jacket! A: Bush’s name, or Brown’s name emblazoned on it? Because I can totally see Bush giving Brown a jacket with a big “Bush” in Ronco Be-Dazzler sequins on the back. 2: Did it come with its own cod piece? ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/125 "2009-11-16T16:20:11Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Damn, I should have gone to bed when I said I was 'cause then I wouldn’t be reading idiotic shit like this. Well, you wrote it. Only polite to spell-check it first. Now, about those requested cites. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/126 "2009-11-16T16:28:33Z")
> [@Michael\_Ellis](#): > > Bwahahahahahahahaha you’ve got nothing to be proud of being a sniveling syphilitic right wing anal cyst before fellow cysts like Beck and Hannity came along. You’re worthless and stupid and I hope every hateful jackass of a candidate you vote for loses. Did you read the collective works of **Der Trihs** and think “Man, I gotta get me some of that. Only… not as subtle”? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Ellis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/977dab/32.png) [@Michael\_Ellis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_Ellis)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/127 "2009-11-16T16:58:38Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > Did you read the collective works of **Der Trihs** and think “Man, I gotta get me some of that. Only… not as subtle”? Subtlety is overrated. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/128 "2009-11-16T17:17:13Z")
A photo gallery of Dwight D. Eisenhower demonstrating that Presidents do not bow: [http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/11/dwight-d-eisenhower-bowing-hour.html](http://lefarkins.blogspot.com/2009/11/dwight-d-eisenhower-bowing-hour.html) Or something. (warning: Blog! Blog! Check the kerning!) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/129 "2009-11-16T17:26:25Z")
So what this thread boils down to, is that some members of the American Right would like to see a square, a compass, and a protractor added to the Official POTUS Protocol Toolbox **®**. Otherwise the security and integrity of the very US of A is in peril. Well, I for one would like to thank the OP for bringing this important matter to our attention, as it’s now clear that without said tools the very future of Humanity is at stake. PS-Is there a consensus on the exact degree of the perfect bow? If so, I suggest **Smiling Bandit** get in touch with the WH ASAP in order to provide such critical information. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/130 "2009-11-16T17:29:54Z")
I’ll be sure to let the folks who can’t afford health care know about this. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/131 "2009-11-16T17:30:41Z")
Happily, we are not likely to ever face a shortage of right-wing tools. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/132 "2009-11-16T17:42:48Z")
Incidentally, this is an issue that concerns me a little bit. I rather like the idea that the US flag is lowered for no monarch, and all that. I don’t know to what degree it’s the same for bowing, and what sort of cultural context it has and what sort of history it has among US presidents. I would be willing to consider that Obama really did fuck up here, except… Right wing punditry (and really, the average person nowadays) is always dialed up to 11. Everything Obama does is an UNSPEAKABLE OUTRAGE! They have diminished their credibility by overreacting to stupid shit, so it’s hard to take them seriously. So good job guys - I’m willing to be swayed that something bad actually happened here, except your nutjobbery shot you in the foot, so you won’t be able to convince anyone except the people who think a Kenyan alien antichrist is in the oval office anyway. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/133 "2009-11-16T19:08:20Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > So what this thread boils down to, is that some members of the American Right would like to see a square, a compass, and a protractor added to the Official POTUS Protocol Toolbox **®**. Otherwise the security and integrity of the very US of A is in peril. Actually, your post did give me an idea for an invention: the Bowsensor - an iPhone app that senses the angle of your bow, and vibrates when you reach the correct angle. _Remember: When your nipples tingle, you’ve bowed just enough!_ ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/134 "2009-11-16T19:13:58Z")
> [@gaffa](#): > > _Remember: When your nipples tingle, you’ve bowed just enough!_ Overclock that and you’ll have the eternal gratitude of submissives worldwide. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bb73d2/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Joe\_Meager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Joe_Meager)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/135 "2009-11-16T20:49:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s definitely an art in Japan to gauge the depth of your bow, and I wouldn’t recommend a \*gaijin \*to take an amateur’s swipe at it. And yet… he did. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/136 "2009-11-16T21:13:54Z")
From the manufactured outrage, you would think Obama [kneeled before Zod](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKDFop0aqYQ). ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/137 "2009-11-16T21:17:00Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > So what this thread boils down to, is that some members of the American Right would like to see a square, a compass, and a protractor added to the Official POTUS Protocol Toolbox **®**. I forgot to mention that putting Masonic symbols like that in the Official POTUS Protocol Toolbox **®** would cause such a rash of Right-Wing head explosions that we’ll _never_ get the carpet clean. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/138 "2009-11-16T21:21:05Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is no sense of subservience if you both bow the same amount. Otherwise, there is. I’m sure Obama didn’t mean to convey that, but that is what the gesture means in a Japanese cultural context. Is there significance to the volume of one’s vomit deposited in their laps? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Hamster\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8edcca/32.png) [@The\_Hamster\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Hamster_King)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/139 "2009-11-16T21:25:22Z")
I think it would have been far more appropriate for Obama to have given the Emperor a sexy back rub. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/140 "2009-11-16T21:50:03Z")
That wasn’t sexy, holding hands with a Saudi Arabian prince is sexy. No, that was treating a world leader like a fellow good old boy. And yeah, this thread is absolutely hilarious. The wingers have cried “WOLF!!” so often that they’re just parodies of themselves now. They really need to read this. It was written before this latest Manufactured Outrage (I think we should use MO, just like we do RO), but it still could be useful: [How to Properly Criticize a President 101](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-j-elisberg/how-to-properly-criticize_b_352109.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=8)