# Dear El Presidente Obama, a minor point of etiquette **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 14, 2009, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586 "2009-11-14T20:19:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/141 "2009-11-16T22:03:02Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I think we should use MO, just like we do RO… …and calling them a bunch of 'mos should _really_ get them angry. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/142 "2009-11-16T22:08:19Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > [How to Properly Criticize a President 101](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-j-elisberg/how-to-properly-criticize_b_352109.html) That guy must go back a ways; I haven’t seen a good Stan Freberg reference in ages. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/143 "2009-11-16T22:37:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It might interest you to know that my political beliefs, mindset and disdain for liberalism far preceed the rise even of Limbaugh, much less relative late-comers like Beck, Hannity and O’Reilly. Those guys are getting rich not because they’re telling conservatives what to think, but because they’re plugged in to much of what liberal politicians and agitators are up to and they’re good at getting people inflamed about it. Yeah, well, you know what else was good at getting people inflamed? Jock itch. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [November 16, 2009, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/144 "2009-11-16T23:48:15Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] It might interest you to know… [/QUOTE] Ahh, not really. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/145 "2009-11-17T00:50:46Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > …I rather like the idea that the US flag is lowered for no monarch, and all that… There was, indeed, a time when that mattered, when America was the revolutionary young upstart, challenging The Way Things Are, and leading the world to The Way Things Can Be. That time is long gone, and so are the monarchs. Monarchs in the sense of rulership simply no longer applies, it would be appropriate for America to defy the power of monarchs, perhaps, but only so far as they actually have any. When monarchy becomes merely a nostalgic decoration for a country’s heritage, denying any sign of submission to a monarch is like kicking an animatronic Hitler in the balls. Ball. Whatever. For my two bits, I’d much rather see Barry bow ten times to the Japanese Emperor than stand in the presence of Robert Mugabe and not bitch slap him across the room. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/146 "2009-11-17T02:29:13Z")
A question for those who think that Obama should not bow to a foreign monarch: Should foreigners bow to the U.S., either literally (when their leader meets ours) or metaphorically (forgoing their own interests and decision making in support of ours)? I am reminded of the build up to the current invasion of Iraq. There was much criticism of the french for not deferring to our decision and contributing troops to the coalition. They had a revolution, too, and said goodbye to monarchy. Does that earn them the right to make their own decisions? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/147 "2009-11-17T04:16:09Z")
Just popping in to see if **Martin Hyde** or **Starving Artist** has supplied a link to the official protocol against bowing yet. No? Not yet? ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 8:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/148 "2009-11-17T08:39:44Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There was much criticism of the french for not deferring to our decision and contributing troops to the coalition. They had a revolution, too, and said goodbye to monarchy. Does that earn them the right to make their own decisions? Only if their decisions agree with OUR decisions, because we went in and saved their cheese-eating surrendermonkey asses and if it weren’t for us they’d be speaking German. At least I _think_ that’s how it’s supposed to go. Speaking moonbat isn’t an easy task. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/149 "2009-11-17T12:18:57Z")
I note Obama wants the US and China to hold additional discussions on human rights next year. Do you laugh or cry? ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/150 "2009-11-17T14:17:09Z")
> [@Olentzero](#): > > Only if their decisions agree with OUR decisions, because we went in and saved their cheese-eating surrendermonkey asses and if it weren’t for us they’d be speaking German. > > At least I _think_ that’s how it’s supposed to go. Speaking moonbat isn’t an easy task. Wait, wait, wait … I thought the _liberals_ were the moonbats? If this has changed, I DID NOT GET THE MEMO! ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/151 "2009-11-17T14:58:07Z")
> [@rockle](#): > > Wait, wait, wait … I thought the _liberals_ were the moonbats? If this has changed, I DID NOT GET THE MEMO! Yes. Liberals are moonbats (which I think is a corruption of George Monbiot’s name); conservatives are wingnuts (short for right-wing nut). ---
**Author:** ![Olentzero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90ced4/32.png) [@Olentzero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Olentzero)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/152 "2009-11-17T15:03:29Z")
I plead confusion from trying to espouse a point of view tenuously connected with reality. ---
**Author:** ![rockle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/73ab20/32.png) [@rockle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rockle)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/153 "2009-11-17T15:41:32Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Yes. Liberals are moonbats (which I think is a corruption of George Monbiot’s name); conservatives are wingnuts (short for right-wing nut). Okay, good. Because I was just called a “hysterical liberal moonbat” the other day and I needed to clear up whether I was supposed to be offended or not. (Plus, “hysterical liberal wingnut” just doesn’t sound … correct.) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/154 "2009-11-17T16:01:14Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There was much criticism of the french for not deferring to our decision and contributing troops to the coalition. They had a revolution, too, and said goodbye to monarchy. Only temporarily, and they’ve had a couple of emperors and an occupation-collaborating regime along the way as well. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/155 "2009-11-17T16:04:15Z")
Still, the fact that they invented oral sex should earn them the gratitude of the nations. ---
**Author:** ![PrettyVacant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@PrettyVacant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PrettyVacant)\ **Post date:** [November 17, 2009, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/156 "2009-11-17T16:14:17Z")
How I long for the days when cheese eating surrender monkeys and Freedom Fries were cited in earnest on here. Oh the jokes . . . wonderful times, nothing at all provicial or parochial about that kind of stuff at all. ---
**Author:** ![kombatminipig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5ac83/32.png) [@kombatminipig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kombatminipig)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2009, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/157 "2009-11-19T15:46:47Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > The Kingdom of Norway chose their king after breaking away from Sweden (At least, I think it was Sweden). That was back in, oh, what – 1905? And so did the Swedes, choosing Jean-Baptiste Bernadotte (one of Napoleon’s marshals) in 1810. Also, they didn’t break…we kicked them out! Yeah…that’s what happened _mutter_ ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/158 "2009-11-25T21:10:00Z")
My understanding is, it is perfectly proper to bow to the _Tenno,_ and it is more or less proper nowadays for a fellow head of state to shake his hand; but doing both at once is unheard-of. Still, the Japanese don’t seem to mind. Tempest in a _cha_-pot. ---
**Author:** ![smiling\_bandit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@smiling\_bandit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smiling_bandit)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/159 "2009-11-25T22:10:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > My understanding is, it is perfectly proper to bow to the _Tenno,_ and it is more or less proper nowadays for a fellow head of state to shake his hand; but doing both at once is unheard-of. Still, the Japanese don’t seem to mind. Tempest in a _cha_-pot. Heads of state don’t bow, not even to the Emperor of Japan. Period. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586/160 "2009-11-25T22:38:03Z")
> [@smiling\_bandit](#): > > Heads of state don’t bow, not even to the Emperor of Japan. Period. Oh, no, [not ever.](http://www.life.com/image/50538693) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-el-presidente-obama-a-minor-point-of-etiquette/517586.md?page=9)