# Dear God: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 13, 2001, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356 "2001-09-13T15:12:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/21 "2001-09-14T13:48:30Z")
I, for one, will **respectfully** disagree. I am and remain an atheist, and I am not going to run now to a God in which I don’t believe for comfort, or do-overs, or anything else. What I am going to do is what I am doing. Stay in touch with my family in the NYC area and support them. Give blood. Make donations to the Red Cross. Support our Armed Forces in any way I can. Support the powers of human reason and action to track down those who assisted the perpetrators of these actions, bring them to justice, and work to eliminate the scourge of terrorism from the face of the earth. God, whether he exists or not, is not going to do it for us. **We** have to do it, together. That’s the only way anything will be accomplished. I won’t belittle the need for people to seek comfort in the wake of these events, but I will encourage constructive action. And I also will not pretend that I am a different person than I was on Tuesday morning. I will not apologize for being born in a country where I am capable of a certain lifestyle–something over which I had no control. It certainly is beyond my control that the bulk of the world’s population was **not** born here. What I can do is, again through human reason and action, take positive steps to make the rest of the world more like the place I live, rather than to see the place I live turned into something more like the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/22 "2001-09-14T14:55:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*I do have one question, however. Were He to turn back time and reset the events, how would you know that He had done so, since the tragedy would now not ever have occured, and you would not be able to know that His miracle had been performed. > > For that matter, how do you know He has not done exactly what you’re requesting many many times already? \*\* Well, he could leave a note, written in big, gold letters in the sky above New York that said something like, “Yesterday something really bad happened, but I fixed it.” As to the second question…if he has repaired previous catastrophes, why did he let others go on as normal? (The Holocaust, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc.)? Speaking for myself, I was just expressing my wish that, somehow, this disaster would be reparable. I didn’t honestly think that there would be any divine intervention. Whether there is or is not a God is unprovable. The existence of evil, though, seems unquestionable. Furthermore, the vermin who perpetrated these acts will soon come to fully understand that Hell isn’t simply a metaphysical place where bad people go–it can also be delivered by F-15’s. ---
**Author:** ![Nymysys](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f6c823/32.png) [@Nymysys](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nymysys)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/23 "2001-09-14T16:02:27Z")
If this is how I, and others, vent our unspeakable anguish, I’d respectably ask to be let to do so. We’re all mourning, venting, seething in different ways. Grief is personal. I surely did not mean to raise any more ire in anyone else. The OP was merely the almost wordless litany that’s been going through my mind since Tuesday morn. Make of it what you will, but please don’t be upset by it. There’s too much stuff out there to be upset by. ---
**Author:** ![djf750](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@djf750](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/djf750)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/24 "2001-09-14T17:00:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Nymysys \* > \*\*I don’t want a war. I want to keep learning and growing up and get married and have kids and get old and give people love and be loved and… > > \*\* Guess what. If we don’t go to war and “destroy” MANY of our fellow human beings (most of whom are innocent) very soon you will not get your wish. If we do nothing, the attacks will get worse. (Can you spell nuclear?) This is why I don’t believe in god. If I did, I would have to conclude that god allows evil, and this scares the shit out of me. I am sitting here watching Billy Graham telling a cathedral full of phonies (ok , there are a few decent ones)that the victims of the bombing are all in heaven. What? So they are better off? Then why are we so upset? So now that they have heard Rev. Graham it is time for them to go and start the killing. Life is a mystery. It is OK not to understand this mystery. Of course, if I found out I had cancer this morning, I’d be back at 6 AM Mass Sunday morning in the front row. Life is a gag…Keep laughing ---
**Author:** ![Narile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/71c47a/32.png) [@Narile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Narile)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/25 "2001-09-14T20:55:39Z")
Perhaps I will get a little flamed for this, but when reading the OP, this quote from Watership Down came to me. For some reason, I’m not sure why, I take comfort in it. Hazel: Lord Frith, you’ve done so much for me already, and I know it’s wrong to ask for even more now, but my people are in terrible danger. I propose a bargain: my life for theirs. Frith: There is not a day that goes by when a doe does not offer her life for her kittens, or an honest officer of an Owsla his life for his chief’s, but there will be no bargain. What is is what must be. —Watership Down, Richard Adams. I do believe in a higher power, and over the last several weeks have had my personal spiritual crisis, this is more than that, and I do believe that what happened is not because of god, but because of people. I think the diety is as horrified at this as we are, but what happens, happens and I would have it no other way. ---
**Author:** ![apotheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@apotheosis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/apotheosis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/26 "2001-09-14T21:21:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Narile \* > Perhaps I will get a little flamed for this, but when reading the OP, this quote from Watership Down came to me. For some reason, I’m not sure why, I take comfort in it. I don’t know why you’d get flamed for it; but I, for one, thank you. I’d completely forgotten that story. And to the OP: what you said, only moreso. In the past few days I’ve read some heart-rending prose; but nothing nearly as primal and…familiar, I suppose. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/27 "2001-09-14T21:22:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rysdad \* > **Well, he could leave a note, written in big, gold letters in the sky above New York that said something like, "Yesterday something really bad happened, but I fixed it."** Kind of like when our beloved moderators fix something around here. I’d take comfort in that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2001, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/28 "2001-09-14T22:27:55Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, he could leave a note, written in big, gold letters in the sky above New York that said something like, “Yesterday something really bad happened, but I fixed it.” He did _exactly_ that. Something really bad happened and He fixed it. He left a note that has consistently been the best selling (and most given away) note of all time year in and year out. > [@](#): > > As to the second question…if he has repaired previous catastrophes, why did he let others go on as normal? (The Holocaust, earthquakes, hurricanes, etc.)? I can almost understand hurricanes, at least if you believe that Pan is really a god, but for the Holocaust, you should blame Hitler. God let Hitler make choices, just as He lets you make choices. Ought He, in your opinion, to elminate the free will of those who choose evil? > [@](#): > > Speaking for myself, I was just expressing my wish that, somehow, this disaster would be reparable. I didn’t honestly think that there would be any divine intervention. I understand. I think, as I said, that your sentiment is noble and beautiful. > [@](#): > > Whether there is or is not a God is unprovable. The existence of evil, though, seems unquestionable. As New York firemen, police, and other rescue workers have proved, the existence of goodness (and therefore God) is also unquestionable. But I do understand what you mean. > [@](#): > > Furthermore, the vermin who perpetrated these acts will soon come to fully understand that Hell isn’t simply a metaphysical place where bad people go–it can also be delivered by F-15’s Agreed! There should be no violence spared in the pursuit of the cock roaches who did this. They should be swept off the earth like thieves from a temple. ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/29 "2001-09-15T00:49:29Z")
[QUOTE] \*Originally posted by djf750 \* \*\* > [@](#): > > I am sitting here watching Billy Graham telling a cathedral full of phonies (ok , there are a few decent ones)that the victims of the bombing are all in heaven. What? So they are better off? Then why are we so upset?\*\* That is one thing I have never understood about the Christian view of death. So WHAT if they are better off? News flash: when I grieved for my father (I still do, sometimes) it wasn’t because I was worried about HIM, but because I was worried about ME. The same goes for the people killed this week. I’m sure they’re fine, wherever they are, but I’m here, and we’re on the brink of a WAR. I’m scared! I remember flipping news channels Tuesday night, wondering if this wasn’t just some huge ugly hoax being perpetrated on the world. The only thing I was worried about this week was a geology test I had Tuesday morning; when I finished that test and got in my car and found out all hell had broken loose, I suddenly didn’t care that I knew I’d probably failed it. Isn’t there a backup of this week somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2001, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/30 "2001-09-15T23:47:54Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > **He did _exactly_ that. Something really bad happened and He fixed it. He left a note that has consistently been the best selling (and most given away) note of all time year in and year out.** And just how in fucking hell did He “fix it”? You’re back to being cryptic and obscure, I see. > [@](#): > > **Ought He, in your opinion, to eliminate the free will of those who choose evil?** Well, yes. That would be their punishment. > [@](#): > > **As New York firemen, police, and other rescue workers have proved, the existence of goodness (and therefore God) is also unquestionable.** The existence of goodness does not necessarily prove the existence of God. And you know it. (Or you should.) ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/31 "2001-09-16T09:35:51Z")
> [@](#): > > And just how in fucking hell did He “fix it”? You’re back to being cryptic and obscure, I see. Oops. Sorry. I guess English can be cryptic to some people. Let me rephrase: See Jesus. Teach, Jesus, teach! See religious leaders. Run, Jesus, run! See them kill Jesus. Get up, Jesus, get up! See Jesus rise to heaven. See Mark write. Write, Mark, write! > [@](#): > > Well, yes. That would be their punishment. You call _that_ punishment? Being absolved of all responsibility for your actions? It is to laugh. Ha. > [@](#): > > The existence of goodness does not necessarily prove the existence of God. And you know it. (Or you should.) If Goodness is what you worship, it does. And I do. (And you should.) ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/32 "2001-09-16T10:02:24Z")
Libertarian It must be really difficult to be so dumb, yet think you are some kind of genius. You have just proved the existence of God - throughout history, no philosopher has ever been able to do so, yet you have. WOW! Teach me more, brainiac. ---
**Author:** ![techchick68](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ea5d25/32.png) [@techchick68](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/techchick68)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/33 "2001-09-16T10:02:39Z")
Having read, most, if not all the posts in this thread, I am stunned by some of it. Not because I am particularly religous but by the out-pouring of emotion. Nym, Again, I am not religious but I believe in a God or a Universal Intelligence or whatever. The moment I got off the phone and watched the events on the TV, I cried, I bawled, I was out of control for some time. But something in my heart knew that there was more to it than just a terrorist attack. That somehow events like that tend to ground many of us into understanding there is more to life than our small lives. We all are connected in some fashion. To some that means through Jesus, some Jewish beliefs, some Buhdda, some Alah (sp), some through a Shaman (sp)…sorry it’s late and my thoughts are a little jerky…but knowing what we know today, as people of this Earth, I believe there is more to it than a simple life and death. I am not a follower of any religion but I feel in my heart our lives are deeper than just existing. We are more than the sum of our fingers, toes and hair color. We have more than our legs, eyes and voices to speak. There is a purpose, a purpose I don’t understand, not one freaking bit but it’s there. Why? I may not know till I die. I might find it in a small way but I believe that there’s more to what we can physically feel, see or touch. This can’t be all there is. If that’s all there is, this existance on this Earth then what is the purpose? That’s my main question to most that think that there is no strong reason for us to be here…aka complete atheism. I don’t poopoo the idea as I have been there but something snapped in my life and changed me to an ideal that was more that felt we have more about us, in a very questioning way. The events in our lives cant change us forever. I hope that people who have no spiritual ties won’t deny it forever. I don’t want them living in a world for them that has no hope beyond what they experience. It’s not a matter of boxing themselves in some form of religion but a matter of hope and prayer. Prayer doesn’t mean you have to live within the confines of going to church, it can be a simple prayer to acknowledge that a friend, loved one or even someone you don’t know will have good will in their lives. It’s not about a GOD in my eyes, it’s a presence that gives us meaning to the things that happen in our lives. It’s about a people coming together in a means that supports and shows love. It’s about we, as a human race, giving a rat’s ass about the person next to us that has just suffered a tragedy, a birth, a new happiness or just plain in normal status. It doesn’t have to be a God it can be the understanding that you love, give love and accept love. It can be the fact that you accept the worlds problems and you work with those problems to resolve yourself to be a better person. For me, it is about a belief in a God, in a Universal Intelligence, something that connects us all. I can’t explain it all that well but knowing there is more to this than our short time on Earth helps me deal with issues I deal with or problems I face. It’s just damn hard to explain to the religious, the atheists and those like me. Damn hard and I wish I had better words for it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 16, 2001, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/34 "2001-09-16T12:21:30Z")
**Techchick** How beautiful! Thank you! **leander** > [@](#): > > Teach me more, brainiac. Impossible. Only God can make something out of the void. ---
**Author:** ![Tricia\_Valentine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9a140/32.png) [@Tricia\_Valentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tricia_Valentine)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/35 "2001-09-17T02:19:20Z")
God, I know I’ve been ignoring you lately, because I wanted to further my own interests, being a teenager is so hard, but you were a teenager too, once. But now I’m so scared. My “big brother” since freshman year will volunteer if it comes down to a draft… and most of my good friends are 17-25, just the age that worries me most. My real big brother may get drafted, and that day I saw him months ago may be the last time I see him for a long time. Please don’t let it get to this- Don’t let more people die, and mostly, in my own selfish way, don’t let my friends die, and me get hurt. I couldn’t live without most of them- Seriously. Not like typical I-couldn’t-live-without teenagerness, like, suicide with a note not-live-without. I just can’t see it happening. Lord, please save us as a whole, even those of us who can’t see your presence in all this… Please help… Amen \ ~C~ ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/36 "2001-09-17T19:58:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > And just how in fucking hell did He “fix it”? You’re back to being cryptic and obscure, I see. > > Oops. Sorry. I guess English can be cryptic to some people. Let me rephrase: > > See Jesus. > > Teach, Jesus, teach! > > See religious leaders. > > Run, Jesus, run! > > See them kill Jesus. > > Get up, Jesus, get up! > > See Jesus rise to heaven. > > See Mark write. > > Write, Mark, write!\*\* See? I thought you were cryptically referring to the terrorism and you were cryptically referring to the Crucifixion and the Gospels. > [@](#): > > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > Well, yes. That would be their punishment. > > You call _that_ punishment? Being absolved of all responsibility for your actions? It is to laugh. Ha.\*\* I thought free will was supposed to be one of the greatest things God gave us. How can it not be a punishment to be deprived of free will and be made a mindless automaton? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/37 "2001-09-17T20:24:30Z")
> [@](#): > > See? I thought you were cryptically referring to the terrorism and you were cryptically referring to the Crucifixion and the Gospels. Uh huh. And when I speak of force in an ethics discussion, do you presume that I am cryptically referring to the product of a philosophy’s mass and acceleration? > [@](#): > > I thought free will was supposed to be one of the greatest things God gave us. How can it not be a punishment to be deprived of free will and be made a mindless automaton? Now Jab, be honest. How much thought have you given to this matter? Of your own, I mean. ---
**Author:** ![Nacho4Sara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Nacho4Sara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nacho4Sara)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/38 "2001-09-17T20:41:08Z")
I am an agnostic. I am doubtful about God, about whether he or she exists, about what form God takes, about why we are here, about what role God plays in everyone’s life (whether they acknowledge God or not). I haven’t been to church in 10 years, when I was a strict Catholic and lost my faith. Yet on Friday, I went to the Basilica of the Assumption, the church my great-grandfather helped build with his own hands, the church that I went to twice a week for the first decade of my life. I pulled down the kneeling bar, and I wept like a baby. I listened to the bells echoing from my church and other churches around the city, and I prayed for the first time in as long as I can remember. Back then I was praying for a happy home, for candy and popularity and new clothes. All the verses and catechism of my youth came back, and I prayed for peace, for comfort and solace, not for myself but for everyone who is hurting right now. It was a big moment. I can honestly say that I am a different person than I was on Monday, or driving to school Tuesday morning. I lost a lot of my naivity, my innocence, my belief that good always wins over evil, my feeling of safety. But I was given back my faith. I don’t know what it all means. I still don’t know what’s up with God. I don’t know what religion I want to actively follow, or why I’m alive and so many others aren’t. But I do know that there must be some reason for this destruction. And my newfound faith is telling me that something good will come of it all, eventually. One verse kept coming back to me over the past week, even before I went back to church. I think it’s from Job: “Blessed are ye that weep, for ye shall laugh.” It’s not saying everything will ever be perfect again. It’s not claiming that God will solve all your problems. It’s just saying that sooner or later, the darkness will lift, and we’ll all see some light. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/39 "2001-09-17T20:52:47Z")
**Nacho4Sara** […admiring your awesome beauty…] Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2001, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356/40 "2001-09-17T21:15:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > I thought free will was supposed to be one of the greatest things God gave us. How can it not be a punishment to be deprived of free will and be made a mindless automaton? > > Now Jab, be honest. How much thought have you given to this matter? Of your own, I mean. \*\* It doesn’t take much thought to realize that I would not want my free will taken from me. To know that I could no longer direct my actions and be ruthlessly directed by someone else, to be that person’s slave and unable or unwilling to rebel would be unbearable. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-god/81356.md?page=3)