# "Dear Justice Thomas, I'm Sorry You're a Shilling Asswipe, Love Anita Hill" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 4, 2007, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448 "2007-10-04T00:36:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/41 "2007-10-04T16:18:54Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] It strains mine. Were there no lefty lawyers eager to embrace a young African-American and get him going in the field of law? How about a lefty (or even left of center) Congresscritter? Not a one? [/QUOTE] Dunno, man. I’m picturing the typical lefty lawyer’s office back then and I see a cramped, wood-paneled cell of a room; overstuffed ashtrays spilling butts across a heavily-gouged pine desk ringed with circular coffee stains; maroon shag carpeting rank with mildew smell and hiding God-knows-what horrors; and a single small, cloudy pane, which must’ve once functioned as a window onto a picturesque brick-alley vista, allowing only the cruelest tease of somber grey cloudlight to filter in. Compare then the chamber of the conservative attorney: its Persian rugs tastefully revealing just enough of the Italian marble tile beneath; a room so enormous that acoustical engineers were employed during its design, to prevent any canyonlike echo even during the frequent post-trial jubilation; its crystal decanters of single-malt scotch doubled in the mirror over the wet bar; its centerpiece a mahogany desk that would dwarf a snooker table, hand-carved so opulently it would move Bernini to tears. Hell, what would _you_ do? ---
**Author:** ![Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e47c2d/32.png) [@Biffy\_the\_Elephant\_Shrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biffy_the_Elephant_Shrew)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/42 "2007-10-04T16:20:26Z")
[QUOTE=Malacandra] A shilling is a lot of money to pay for an asswipe, IMO - or was pre-1971, at any rate: the point’s moot now. [/QUOTE] Perhaps a mod could change the title of this thread to “Dear Justice Thomas, I’m Sorry You’re a 5 p. Asswipe, Love Anita Hill” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/43 "2007-10-04T16:25:27Z")
I used to love CBS’s _Sunday Morning_ show. Low key, with coverage of arts & sciences, as well as in-depth reports on issues. Sort of like Church for us agnostic heathens. Until Virginia Thomas appeared for an interview just after the Supremes handed the Presidency to W. She & the smarmy interviewer discussed the ugly rudeness that had been so prevalent in DC–ignoring the time & money wasted on slamming Clinton. Now that we had a Republican President, things would be much “nicer.” The interviewer neglected to ask about Mrs Thomas’s current job–working at the Heritage Foundation, vetting candidates for positions in the incoming administration. The administration that was incoming because of a Supreme Court decision. Nowadays, I’d rather spend my Sunday Mornings watching _Bargain Hunt_ on BBCAmerica. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/44 "2007-10-04T16:27:10Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] The fact that he is even more distant from the majority of black citizens and black thinkers and academics makes him even more unusual. There appears to me to be no harm in asking why? The fact that he seems to have no valid reason other than the perceived slight to his accomplishment due to the implementation of affirmative action makes it even more likely that his positions are not deeply felt convictions but convenient conclusions based on loyalty rather than reasoning. [/quote] Whenever we treat someone differently because of his race, I believe (as a default assumption) we’re doing something wrong. For you to say, in essence, “Thomas is a conservative, and so few blacks are conservatives, so I’m entitled to suggest his convictions are conveniently-held shallow positions,” is wrong. If you believe that _all_ conservatives’ positions are ersatz, that’s not a racial distinction, of course – merely an idiotic one. If you believe that a black conservative’s positions may be more readily dismissed as ersatz than a white one’s, then you are a racist. And just for the record: I am Hispanic. My father arrived here in this country with nothing. My childhood was … not a wealthy one. Yet even while we had nothing, my family didn’t hold the ridiculous position that we should somehow be given extra opportunities or preferences to make up for our state of poverty. I didn’t feel then that affirmative action programs were of value to society. I don’t feel that today, either. Is my position on this point weaker or more suspect than an identical view held by my next-door neighbor, lily-white Jonathan Wasp III? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/45 "2007-10-04T16:47:26Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Compare then the chamber of the conservative attorney… [/QUOTE] And he’s just an associate. Imagine, if you can, the office of a senior partner. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/46 "2007-10-04T17:00:43Z")
[QUOTE=dropzone] And he’s just an associate. Imagine, if you can, the office of a senior partner. [/QUOTE] ?OVERFLOW ERROR READY. \>\_ ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/47 "2007-10-04T17:07:13Z")
[QUOTE=mischievous] Just popping in to say that I, personally, would pay good money to see Ms. Hill respond to Mrs. Thomas with the thread title, verbatim. mischievous [/QUOTE] Can we start a fund? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/48 "2007-10-04T17:08:04Z")
[QUOTE=Vinyl Turnip] Dunno, man. I’m picturing the typical lefty lawyer’s office back then and I see a cramped, wood-paneled cell of a room; overstuffed ashtrays spilling butts across a heavily-gouged pine desk ringed with circular coffee stains; maroon shag carpeting rank with mildew smell and hiding God-knows-what horrors; and a single small, cloudy pane, which must’ve once functioned as a window onto a picturesque brick-alley vista, allowing only the cruelest tease of somber grey cloudlight to filter in. Compare then the chamber of the conservative attorney: its Persian rugs tastefully revealing just enough of the Italian marble tile beneath; a room so enormous that acoustical engineers were employed during its design, to prevent any canyonlike echo even during the frequent post-trial jubilation; its crystal decanters of single-malt scotch doubled in the mirror over the wet bar; its centerpiece a mahogany desk that would dwarf a snooker table, hand-carved so opulently it would move Bernini to tears. Hell, what would _you_ do? [/QUOTE] I don’t know how accurate your depiction is. I’m sure some lefty law firms were like that, but it needn’t be a firm fighting for lefty causes, just a law firm with lefties in hiring positions. I have no idea how common or uncommon that was. But what about lefty Congresscritters? Surely there were plenty of those around. He wasn’t top of his class, but a middle of the pack Black guy from Yale Law School must’ve stood out in a crowd in the 60s or early 70s. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/49 "2007-10-04T17:14:29Z")
[QUOTE=Mosier] Did he seriously say that white liberals are worse than the KKK, or was that just a whoosh? [/QUOTE] I’d like to see the quote from the book that supports that he said that. I saw the 60 Minutes piece. He said that in his own personal experience, he got worse from White liberals (during his confirmation process) than he ever got from the Klan. But he was not generalizing. At any rate, I think we should ask those who are making that claim to cite the passage from the book, in context, so we can judge for ourselves. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/50 "2007-10-04T17:18:52Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] I don’t know how accurate your depiction is. I’m sure some lefty law firms were like that, but it needn’t be a firm fighting for lefty causes, just a law firm with lefties in hiring positions. [/QUOTE] Yeah, I know. I confess that like most of my other suppositions and beliefs, I based that mainly on stereotypes and clichés I vaguely recall from movies and TV. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/51 "2007-10-04T17:25:38Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] Is my position on this point weaker or more suspect than an identical view held by my next-door neighbor, lily-white Jonathan Wasp III? [/QUOTE] I don’t live all that far from you, and I’m half-Wasp on my father’s side. That being said, I still grew up in the sort of household where my brothers and I, when we were teenagers, would help our parents clean insurance and dental offices and work in restaurants to help our family get through a steel strike. I do not deny for one second that many people in this country were denied certain opportunities on the basis of race. However, there are tons more denied opportunities for countless other reasons, and I have never seen an affirmative action plan that could address that. The education, family stability and poverty problems that affect black families in the inner city also affect millions of white people in places like Appalachia and the Rust Belt. Yet little affirmative action reaches them, and increasingly the primary beneficiary of affirmative action programs is the black middle class. Now, this kind of thing isn’t helpful to race relations, especially among people who frankly carry some residual cultural racism. And this kind of thing can be exploited, frankly. Remember, that famous Jesse Helms ad didn’t show a man in a white shirt. It showed a man in a red plaid workshirt. Now, personally, I’m not particularly resentful. And I’m grateful for the opportunities I did get, which I think I took advantage of well. But I know an awful lot of people back in Pittsburgh who feel that affirmative action is screwing them over. If one of its goals is to advance racial harmony and understanding, it has to do a better job. If it can’t (and I think it can) then it ought to be abolished. Making it class-based rather than race-based would be a huge first step. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/52 "2007-10-04T17:31:13Z")
**VT** Yeah. Did you see the one where the relentless FBI brought the Klan to its knees? That was a good one! ---
**Author:** ![Renob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8c91f0/32.png) [@Renob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renob)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/53 "2007-10-04T17:44:31Z")
[QUOTE=denquixote] Shouldn’t it be possible to question Thomas’ motivation and his philosophical development in light of his background and early political, social and religious history without disparaging him or anyone else? [/quote] Of course it should. So why do you insist on disparaging him, saying he has “no valid reason” to hold his views? > [@](#): > > He is a major historical figure who happens to be black. His political philosophy is so far from mainstream America as to make him a curiosity. The fact that he is even more distant from the majority of black citizens and black thinkers and academics makes him even more unusual. There appears to me to be no harm in asking why? The fact that he seems to have no valid reason other than the perceived slight to his accomplishment due to the implementation of affirmative action makes it even more likely that his positions are not deeply felt convictions but convenient conclusions based on loyalty rather than reasoning. And you base your assumption on what? Have you read anything by Thomas? Have you heard him speak? Do you even know anything about him? As Thomas says in a Reason magazine interview on how Thomas Sowell influenced him ([Freedom Now II: Interview with Clarence Thomas](http://www.reason.com/news/show/33217.html)): > [@](#): > > I think initially I thought he was nuts. I was just starting Yale Law School, and someone had given me Black Education: Myths and Tragedies–“God, you’ve got to read this crazy book. This guy is out of his mind.” I picked it up and flipped through it. It really went against all the things we’d been indoctrinated to believe about the radical movement and the peace movement when we were in college. So I threw it in the trash. > > I went on my merry way, challenging all sorts of things but not really aligning myself with anybody or any idea. I went out to Jefferson City, Missouri–if you ever want to be deprogrammed from any kind of a cult, go to Jeff City–and I just rethought everything. A friend of mine, I’ll never forget it, called me up and said, “Clarence, there’s another black guy out here who is as crazy as you are. He has the same ideas that you have. There are two of you!” > > Reason: Better not get on the same plane, right? > > Thomas: “I can’t remember his name,” he said. “It’s Sowl or Sool or Sail or something.” I said, “Oh my goodness.” He said. “I’ve got the review of a book that he just wrote.” So I immediately dropped everything I was doing and got the review of his book, The Economics and Politics of Race. It was like pouring half a glass of water on the desert. I just soaked it up. Then I tried to get ahold of him. I called UCLA. where he was–the word I got was nobodv knew who he was. So I didn’t contact him. A friend of mine noticed that he was speaking at Washington University, so I left work and went over there. He was really great. I went up to him and begged him to autograph my book. It certainly seems that Thomas did some thinking before he changed his views. > [@](#): > > The fact that some other black person is a true conservative embracing all of the traditional conservative priciples and values has nothing to do with the investigation of Thomas, especially when one considers the variance between traditional conservative values and those adopted by current conservative leaders, including Thomas. Please spell out the difference between “traditional conservative values” and “those adopted” by Thomas. Also, remember that Thomas has often described himself as more libertarian than conservative. > [@](#): > > It is not necessary for a person to have wealth to think that a “conservative” ideology is superior to a “liberal” one and I am sure there are some well-known conservative thinkers of moderate means, I mean there must be one somewhere right? If you are “well known” then you are probably of at least moderate means. Most well known thinkers of both the conservative and liberal camps are doing pretty well economically. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/54 "2007-10-04T18:56:23Z")
> [@](#): > > …It really went against all the things we’d been indoctrinated to believe about the radical movement and the peace movement when we were in college… Well, that certainly explains it all, doesn’t it? He had been “indoctrinated” by those treacherous lefties who, as everyone knows, rule academia with an iron fist, and are utterly in the thrall of such radicals as…who, exactly? Hubert “Trotsky” Humphrey? Martin “Ruthless” King? No doubt he would have sooner seen the True Path, had it not been for the relentless “indoctrination”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/55 "2007-10-04T19:19:23Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] Well, that certainly explains it all, doesn’t it? He had been “indoctrinated” by those treacherous lefties who, as everyone knows, rule academia with an iron fist, and are utterly in the thrall of such radicals as…who, exactly? Hubert “Trotsky” Humphrey? Martin “Ruthless” King? No doubt he would have sooner seen the True Path, had it not been for the relentless “indoctrination”. [/QUOTE] Funny, but I wasn’t thinking about academia, but radical student organizations. He was, for instance, one of the founding members of the Black Student Union at Holy Cross. But he could have been thinking about some lefty profs as well. I was in college in New England about that time (maybe a few years later), and I sure had my share. And many were quite supportive of lefty causes on campus-- things like Affirmative Action, higher wages for workers on campus… things like that. I don’t recall any being supportive of Weather Underground type activities, but one needn’t be that far out to be a radical lefty. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/56 "2007-10-04T20:13:44Z")
[QUOTE=Bricker] And just for the record: I am Hispanic. My father arrived here in this country with nothing. My childhood was … not a wealthy one. [/QUOTE] Note to self: _THAT’S_ why a straight conservative knows Mimi’s songs from _RENT_- now it falls into place. , ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/57 "2007-10-04T20:39:52Z")
[Here](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/10/03/hannity-thomas-racist/) is the relevant quote from the book: [QUOTE=Clarence Thomas] I’d grown up fearing the lynch mobs of the Ku Klux Klan; as an adult, I was starting to wonder if I’d been afraid of the wrong white people all along. My worst fears had come to pass not in Georgia, but in Washington, D.C., where I was being pursued not by bigots in white robes, but by left-wing zealots draped in flowing sanctimony. [/QUOTE] The cite also has excepts from his interview with Hannity. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/58 "2007-10-04T20:58:43Z")
Considering the kind of Swift Boating he underwent during his confirmation hearings, his position seems fairly reasonable. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/59 "2007-10-04T21:05:07Z")
Thomas has a point. There were few things that terrified black people, Jews, Catholics, and others more in the Jim Crow era than people chasing them with sanctimony. I understand that in some areas black mothers still use Ted Kennedy and Eleanor Roosevelt as quasi-mythological figures to scare their children into behaving. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448/60 "2007-10-04T21:17:32Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] Considering the kind of Swift Boating he underwent during his confirmation hearings, his position seems fairly reasonable. [/QUOTE] Not so fast! Swiftboating wasn’t even _invented_ until around 2004… I just verified it on Wikipedia! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-justice-thomas-im-sorry-youre-a-shilling-asswipe-love-anita-hill/421448.md?page=4)