# Dear Lynn "Spare the Rod and Spoil the Child" Bodoni: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 3, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752 "2011-11-03T16:12:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/181 "2011-11-07T18:39:26Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > curlcoat, do you discipline your husband? Oh, he’s being punished. No doubt about that. ---
**Author:** ![Garfield226](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Garfield226](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Garfield226)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/182 "2011-11-07T19:13:10Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I just wanted to make note that you are, in fact, entirely wrong. > > Carry on. _shrug_ It’s not so cut and dried as to be able to draw the conclusion that the poster’s intent was to dehumanize the child by using that language. To many people, that construction is incorrect, which is reason enough for not using it. There are plenty of valid arguments to be made – picking the weakest one and being snarky about it just makes you look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/183 "2011-11-07T19:26:35Z")
An estimated 90% of parents have spanked their children. Do any of you really believe that 90% of parents are beating and abusing their children? Some of you seem to see no middle ground between ‘no physical punishment’ and ‘abuse.’ It’s weird to me. I have 4 children and I spanked them all. Never with an implement (brush, belt, etc.) and never more than a few swats on their bottoms. They are all of an age now when I don’t spank them any more, as other punishments work better at this age. I don’t have a problems with people who don’t spank… if they can teach their children without spanking, more power to them. But I also see nothing wrong with it as long as it doesn’t cross the line into beating or abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/184 "2011-11-07T19:29:33Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > An estimated 90% of parents have spanked their children. Do any of you really believe that 90% of parents are beating and abusing their children? Some of you seem to see no middle ground between ‘no physical punishment’ and ‘abuse.’ Really? That’s what you’re getting out of this thread? I don’t see that at all. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/185 "2011-11-07T19:37:53Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > An estimated 90% of parents have spanked their children. Cite? I think that’s bullshit. [Here’s a study that says in the US](http://www.livescience.com/11009-study-parents-spank-kids.html), spanking varies by region from 6% to 31% of households. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/186 "2011-11-07T20:15:08Z")
“Fully 90 percent of American parents do hit their children, according the 1998 AAP report” “corporal punishment, which is still used by more than 90 percent of American parents at some point and condoned by more than 70 percent of the population, according to 1995 and 2005 survey data.” > **[Should Parents Spank Their Kids?](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/to-spank-or-not-to-spank/)** > > A task force concludes that parents probably should not use spanking as a punishment I can’t vouch for how accurate that number is, but it’s all over the place as the widely accepted number. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/187 "2011-11-07T21:22:14Z")
> [@Palo\_Verde](#): > > “Fully 90 percent of American parents do hit their children, according the 1998 AAP report” > > “corporal punishment, which is still used by more than 90 percent of American parents **at some point** and condoned by more than 70 percent of the population, according to 1995 and 2005 survey data.” > > [Should Parents Spank Their Kids? | Scientific American](http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=to-spank-or-not-to-spank). \*\*emphasis added “At some point” can mean a parent slapped their child’s hand once (and never again) when (he, she, it, they) were about to touch a hot stove. I find this study suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/188 "2011-11-07T21:45:59Z")
> [@rogerbox](#): > > Let me pipe in about emotionally abusive and unstable parents to say you can never tell what will set them off.\ My contribution to the collection of stories: When I was about 14 or 15, I wanted to go to a concert in Cleveland (90 minutes away from where we lived) with my sister, who was 17 or 18 and had her own car. I babysat pretty frequently and had plenty of money for pizza, sodas, a t-shirt, my ticket, and to help my sister with gas money. It was all on my own dime. But the concert was on a school night. My dad grudgingly allowed me to go but we made a deal first. The conditions were: 1) I had to have my room _ting_ clean before I left; 2) My homework and chores all had to be done before I left; and 3) No matter what time we got home, I still had to get up for school on time the next day. Sold. No problem. We buy the tickets and wait anxiously for the day of the show. I happened to not have any homework that night – must have gotten it done in study hall or another class or something, so I made sure my room was clean and did whatever other assigned chores and off we went. When we got home at 1 a.m. – I’m in 8th or 9th grade at the time – I was stunned to step into my room and find everything. Every. Single. Thing. in my room tossed around. Like my dad had just picked up my entire room and shaken it. Sheets stripped off mattress and thrown around. Mattress on floor. Every item in my drawers and closet thrown everywhere. Books, papers, and my completed homework that was due that morning, strewn about. Ears ringing, my sister and I stood there in silence. She whispered to me, “What the hell did you do?” I had no idea. To this day, I have no idea what I did or what set him off or why my room was trashed when I got home. He never addressed it the next day, I was terrified to ask, and it was never discussed. My sister offered to help me put my room back together and I told her I thought I was probably supposed to do it by myself and I’m sure if I’d left it that way and gone to school the next day, it would have been much, much, much worse. I just set about putting it all back together. Took me three hours. I went to school on about 3 hours sleep. Even when you make what seems like a clear, concrete deal with an unstable parent, you never know when or why they will randomly decide to renege. ---
**Author:** ![Commander\_Fortune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@Commander\_Fortune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Commander_Fortune)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/189 "2011-11-07T22:01:48Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > I go by a simple guideline. If it would be assault if I did it to you in the street, it’s assault if you do it to your child at home. This is also my measuring stick. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/190 "2011-11-07T22:27:49Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > I didn’t call you a liar or a child abuser. It is your personal interpretation of my use of the word “beat” that convinces you that I did. I did not. So, when you said "You’re apologizing for beating your children by using the laughable euphemism “physical interaction.” what was it that you meant? > [@](#): > > You’ve stated flatly that not “touching” or “physically interacting” with your children necessarily means they will become wild and unruly. No, I haven’t. If you think I have, you need to quote it so I can show you your error. > [@](#): > > I also didn’t say that spanking your child is abuse or is beating them in the strict definition you are applying to the word. Strict definition I am applying to what word? Spank, abuse, beat - which one? And what definition do you think I’m applying to it? > [@](#): > > But, for those who can’t fathom an alternate definition of the word beat, and in an interest of advancing the argument, I will defer to your vocabulary including the words “touch” and “physical interaction.” That isn’t “my vocabulary”, those are words in the language we are both using (at least, I think you are using it). “Beat” is definitely not the same as touch, but “physical interaction” _could_, but certainly not necessarily, include “beat”. > [@](#): > > I don’t claim that spanking, touching, physical interaction, or a swat on the butt (your language) is abuse or that it is necessarily wrong. My only point is that you and **White Unicorn** claiming that children will necessarily become undisciplined animals because a parent chooses not to use spanking, touching, physical interaction, or a swat on the butt as punishment, is patently absurd, and I used my family as an example. Note that my use of the word “animal” here doesn’t actually refer to non-human members of the kingdom _Animalia_. OK, then, show us how it is done. You are in a Starbucks with your two or three year old kid and said kid is, oh, climbing on the counter. You tell him to quit, he doesn’t. You tell her that if she doesn’t stop, she will lose some privilege. She doesn’t. What do you do now? > [@](#): > > So, physical interaction is the only way to deal with kids acting like howler monkeys on crack? Is it possible that not all children will act like howler monkeys on crack in the absence of physical interaction? I’m sure it is quite possible that some children are born with such mild personalities that they never do the usual running about screaming and yelling. But that sidesteps the issue - what would you do if a child was doing that, since you are against touching them? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2011, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/191 "2011-11-07T22:30:40Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > I just wanted to make note that you choose to use the pronoun ‘it’ rather than ‘they’ when referring to another human being. > > Carry on. “They” is plural, but just for you I used “he” and then “her” in the above post. I cannot promise to remember every time tho. > [@astro](#): > > There is no one size fits all when it comes to disciplining kids. If a willful and aggressive child is doing stupid and dangerous things being physically punished, even harshly, is IMO unlikely to do them much long term psychic damage. If a more sensitive child or one with more fragile psyche is handled in the same rough manner they may harbor life long grudges which will color their future interaction with their parent. > > There’s no way for there to be 100% success in deciding how to discipline kids, but physical correction, within limits, does have its place in specific circumstances and with specific personality types of kids. This is exactly what I’ve been saying. I hope you currently have kids so maybe some of these folks here will listen to you. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/192 "2011-11-08T00:11:45Z")
> [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > For starters, \*\*I wrote the OP about the one specific instance in the TX Judge thread, not child rearing in general. It was to address Lynn’s comments in that thread. \*\* Exactly, and as I said you ignored the great gray middle of the road that was right there in the quote from **Lynn** , i.e. physical discipline. You jumped to the conclusion that is must mean “beating a teenager black and blue while screaming for them to submit”, and ignored any other sort of _much_ milder physical discipline out there. > [@](#): > > Let’s refresh our memories with a recap of what \*\*Lynn Bodoni \*\*said in that thread: “Well, he didn’t need to beat her that hard, but teenagers need physical discipline or they wind up being troublemakers. It’s obvious nothing else worked on her so she needed stronger punishment, unless he was willing to send her to a camp for troubled kids.” > > What I, and a lot of others, feel about this: He didn’t need to beat her AT ALL and beating/sending her to brat camp is an overreaction to the nature of her offense, which if you’ll recall was illegally downloading songs off the internet. Keep in mind that none of us know anything about the teenager’s prior behavior and what, if any, punishments were tried. I have not addressed any of that at all, if for no other reason than I haven’t gone back to the original thread to see what **Lynn** was responding to in context. > [@](#): > > Putting the pieces together, we can see now that my “So, the options are either grounding/ no computer time, or beating a teenager black and blue while screaming for them to submit” is my rather hotly-stated take on \*\*Lynn Bodoni’s \*\*comments. She was the one with the contention that milder punishments hadn’t worked and wouldn’t work so it was time for a lickin’. No, that was your interpretation of what she said, and I think you are quite wrong. I don’t think **Lynn** thinks that the only options in child rearing are grounding/ no computer time, or a beating, that is just how you chose to interpret it for some reason. > [@](#): > > And I’m the one with no self-control :rolleyes: > > As far as I can remember, I’ve never interacted with you on this board before. I’m not one of the “Here’s **curlcoat** , she ruins it for everyone” brigade, so I’ll thank you not to cast aspersions on MY character and not twist MY words to suit your needs. > > I will, however, think of you every time my sister’s German Shorthaired Pointer drops a drooly, slimy, muddy, grassy tennis ball in my lap. Uh huh - that’s supposed to make me feel like you have been wronged? Look, YOU are the one that jumped to the conclusion that there is no middle ground between time outs and beating a kid up, those were YOUR words. If you have been misunderstood, nothing you have said here has fixed that since all you have done is throw more mud at **Lynn** and drool at me. Since we are exchanging resumes here, I’ll say that I have far more faith in **Lynn** than anyone who comes stomping into the Pit, quoting someone out of context and - cough - twisting words to suit their needs. Which, if that wasn’t clear enough, is exactly what you did. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/193 "2011-11-08T02:54:07Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Exactly, and as I said you ignored the great gray middle of the road that was right there in the quote from **Lynn** , i.e. physical discipline. You jumped to the conclusion that is must mean “beating a teenager black and blue while screaming for them to submit”, and ignored any other sort of _much_ milder physical discipline out there. ::sigh:: Let’s review the facts. Someone posts a pit thread with a link to a video showing a man beating his teenage daughter with a belt while screaming at her as punishment for dowloading illegal content off the internet. It is apparently not the first time this has happened, either the horsing around online or the beating. People in pit thread are posting things along the line of that’s a terrible thing, there are other ways to punish kids who screw around on the computer. People are calling the man’s behavior abusive and uncalled-for no matter what she did. Lynn comes into the middle of this and says, bolding mine: > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > He’s probably gone off his rocker before, and it seems that his wife thinks that spouse/child abuse is OK, or at least expected. However, the girl seems to be deliberately setting him up. \*\*She knows what will set him off, she sets up a scenario where she can film him, and she’s determined to get the most abuse possible…\*\*part of the reason why he goes to extremes is that she’s done this before, and now she refuses to agree not to do it again. In other words, she got what she wanted: she deliberately pushed his buttons because she wanted to be hit and catch it on tape. He was justified in going berzerk because she provoked him. > [@curlcoat](#): > > I have not addressed any of that at all, if for no other reason than I haven’t gone back to the original thread to see what **Lynn** was responding to in context. :rolleyes: Context? I don’t need no stinkin’ context! > [@curlcoat](#): > > No, that was your interpretation of what she said, and I think you are quite wrong. I don’t think **Lynn** thinks that the only options in child rearing are grounding/ no computer time, or a beating, that is just how you chose to interpret it for some reason. The only options in child rearing… after I said twice in my last post in this thread, but I’ll repeat it once more just for giggles, **I wrote the OP about the one specific instance in the TX Judge thread, not child rearing in general. It was to address Lynn’s comments in that thread.** Which also include the following, bolding mine: > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > Now, the judge is clearly ABUSING, not disciplining this girl. And yes, that’s wrong. \*\*He probably should have taken away computer privileges. But she’s unrepentant, and she’s determined to do it again, apparently. This is NOT the first time she’s done it. \*\*When she downloads games and music illegally, she’s exposing the computer to trojans and viruses, and she’s risking legal problems, too. **I’d be a hell of a lot more sympathetic if this was her first offense. But apparently she ignores everything else**. Straight from the source, she doesn’t feel sorry for the girl because she’s exposing herself to computer viruses and possible legal trouble, and takes it upon herself to say that no other discipline than corporal punishment will curb this willful, unrepentant teen’s activities. He probably should have taken the computer away, but yeah, this girl wasn’t responding to milder punishments so it’s right to the harsher punishment. Continuing: > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > Teens can be incredibly stubborn. I wonder if she’d already been grounded from the computer, or what other disciplinary measures had been taken. Perhaps she should have just been shipped off to one of those “troubled teen” camps? Again, we don’t know what has gone before, other than he’s administered some pretty painful beatings in the past, often enough that she knew where a beating would take place. Translation: she doesn’t know what punishments have been tried, but based on what she thinks might have happened in the past the girl is such an intractable case that taking the computer away ain’t gonna cut it and extreme measures (i.e. corporal punishment or being shipped off to brat camp) will serve. Aaaaaaaaaand somewhere in there she suggested exactly what is an acceptable, to her, level of corporal punishment? A couple smacks with a ruler? A brief spanking on a clothed bottom? A single blow from a paddle? No? See, I didn’t see that anywhere, which is why I made this thread. I wanted Lynn to explain further why she thought this girl was such a difficult case. In other words, why she thinks this: > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > I’m not saying that he’s right. What I’m saying is that while I do see an abused teen, I also see an incredibly stubborn teen who is determined to continue her illegal activities, without regard as to the consequences. because that’s an awful lot to read into a situation we only have a brief glimpse at, and it’s an emotionally-charged issue and someone who’s been around as long as **Lynn** had to know that posting that was going to get backs up. > [@curlcoat](#): > > Uh huh - that’s supposed to make me feel like you have been wronged? Look, YOU are the one that jumped to the conclusion that there is no middle ground between time outs and beating a kid up, those were YOUR words. Oh? It seems to me that Lynn herself said that: > [@Lynn Bodoni](#): > > No, he shouldn’t have beaten her like to that extent. But I know a LOT of kids who would simply shrug off groundings and non-physical discipline. The ONLY thing that affected their behavior was getting physically disciplined. I was lucky enough that my daughter was pretty obedient. > [@me](#): > > So, the options are either grounding/ no computer time, or beating a teenager black and blue while screaming for them to submit. Right. Gotcha. Because, you know, it looks an awful lot like she’s saying that non-physical punishment isn’t going to work on this girl so corporal punishment is needed. Heaven forfend I indulge in a little sarcasm in the process. This pit thread, just in case I’ve neglected to mention it, was an attempt to get **Lynn** to clarify her stance on what she considered appropriate punishment for this girl and why. > [@curlcoat](#): > > If you have been misunderstood, nothing you have said here has fixed that since all you have done is throw more mud at **Lynn** and drool at me. Oddly enough, just about everyone else in this thread has understood me just fine, including some long-time respected posters and the pit mods. I’d quite like to know exactly what mud I’ve thrown at Lynn. I wasn’t one of the people accusing **White Unicorn** of being her sock. I didn’t call her a child abuser. She’s been around the SDMB from the beginning and I’m sure she’s been flamed a lot worse before now. If **Lynn** should come to this thread, I’d love to hear her reasoning but I’m not going to nag her to do it. If she doesn’t, I’m sure not going to be popping up in every thread right behind her screaming “Whaddyamean by that, you baby-beating monster?!?” And responding to being accused of lacking self-control and arguing disingenuously while keeping calm constitutes “drooling.” I’ll file that tidbit of info where it belongs. I’m not expecting to convince you I’ve been wronged because honestly, I don’t care. > [@curlcoat](#): > > Since we are exchanging resumes here, I’ll say that I have far more faith in **Lynn** than anyone who comes stomping into the Pit, quoting someone out of context and - cough - twisting words to suit their needs. Which, if that wasn’t clear enough, is exactly what you did. O NOEZ someone posted an angry ranty OP in the pit! Someone responded viscerally to an emotional subject-can’t be having that! Well, I’ve provided the context you couldn’t be arsed to find on your own. Hope you had fun pulling the one quote out of the OP guaranteed to get everyone riled up, at least. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/194 "2011-11-08T03:52:24Z")
Jayzus look at the size of this thing! Fortunately, it appears that there is only one thing in here that deserves a response: > [@ugly ripe tomato](#): > > :rolleyes: Context? I don’t need no stinkin’ context! That says it all right there. If you are ignoring the context of a comment or post, then you are using what people say how you want to, not how they intended. Remember that “twisting words to suit their needs” thing? Oops, there is more: > [@](#): > > The only options in child rearing… after I said twice in my last post in this thread, but I’ll repeat it once more just for giggles, **I wrote the OP about the one specific instance in the TX Judge thread, not child rearing in general. It was to address Lynn’s comments in that thread.** Which, uh, had to do with child rearing… > [@](#): > > Straight from the source, she doesn’t feel sorry for the girl because she’s exposing herself to computer viruses and possible legal trouble, and takes it upon herself to say that no other discipline than corporal punishment will curb this willful, unrepentant teen’s activities. He probably should have taken the computer away, but yeah, this girl wasn’t responding to milder punishments so it’s right to the harsher punishment. No, that is not what she said - read the first two sentences in what you just quoted: “Now, the judge is clearly ABUSING, not disciplining this girl. And yes, that’s wrong.” The rest of it could have been in response to someone like you saying the judge should have given the girl a time out, or taken her computer away, I don’t know because (here comes that word again) there’s no context for what she said and I don’t know what she was responding to. Apparently you expect us to either believe that you have interpreted what **Lynn** said entirely correctly, or that we are all supposed to go wade thru the whole thread and try to figure out what you are on about and how it happened. Why you wish to believe that **Lynn** would not only advocate beatings but go on to say so in public, I don’t know but I find that so unlikely that there is no way I’m going to spend a bunch of time in another thread, trying to guess how you got to that idea. > [@](#): > > Translation: she doesn’t know what punishments have been tried, but based on what she thinks might have happened in the past the girl is such an intractable case that taking the computer away ain’t gonna cut it and extreme measures (i.e. corporal punishment or being shipped off to brat camp) will serve. On this one I flat have no idea how you come to this interpretation. I do think it’s interesting that you think that being sent to a camp for troubled teens is just as bad as a beating tho. > [@](#): > > See, I didn’t see that anywhere, which is why I made this thread. I wanted Lynn to explain further why she thought this girl was such a difficult case. Don’t know, don’t care tho I think there has been quite a bit of press coverage on this other than that video, so it is quite possible she learned these things from other news sources. > [@](#): > > someone who’s been around as long as **Lynn** had to know that posting that was going to get backs up. People who have opinions that don’t, at least on first scan, don’t agree with those who like to jump to negative conclusions shouldn’t post? > [@](#): > > Because, you know, it looks an awful lot like she’s saying that non-physical punishment isn’t going to work on this girl so corporal punishment is needed. This is your problem right here. You are completely ignoring any sort of mild physical punishment and just assuming that anything physical has to be a beating like on the video. In the case of the judge, that may be true, but it isn’t something that a normal parent should jump to as an obvious conclusion. > [@](#): > > Oddly enough, just about everyone else in this thread has understood me just fine, including some long-time respected posters and the pit mods. Well, those who agree with your interesting idea that physical punishment must equal a beating do seem to understand that leap of illogic, I’ll give you that. Plus the one or two who are only here because they like to troll me. However, I am certainly not the only one here who disagrees with your assessment. > [@](#): > > I’d quite like to know exactly what mud I’ve thrown at Lynn. I’d say continuing to insist that she is advocating the beating of children is pretty muddy. > [@](#): > > And responding to being accused of lacking self-control and arguing disingenuously while keeping calm constitutes “drooling.” You are the one that brought up the GSP with the drool on the tennis ball. Actually, there is a great example of how something is misinterpreted - I said you were throwing (dog) drool at me, not that you were drooling. Not sure how calm you have been tho - if you are, it definitely isn’t coming across that way. > [@](#): > > O NOEZ someone posted an angry ranty OP in the pit! Someone responded viscerally to an emotional subject-can’t be having that! No problem with that, but you should be aware by now that if you lack logic you are going to be called on it. > [@](#): > > Well, I’ve provided the context you couldn’t be arsed to find on your own. Hope you had fun pulling the one quote out of the OP guaranteed to get everyone riled up, at least. Again, considering that you did that very thing to **Lynn** in the OP, that is pretty funny. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/195 "2011-11-08T05:47:19Z")
> [@Garfield226](#): > > _shrug_ It’s not so cut and dried as to be able to draw the conclusion that the poster’s intent was to dehumanize the child by using that language. To many people, that construction is incorrect, which is reason enough for not using it. There are plenty of valid arguments to be made – picking the weakest one and being snarky about it just makes you look bad. That construction is in fact correct no matter what many people think. The use of the pronoun ‘it’ rather than ‘they’ or ‘he or she’ is also grammatically correct, but is also a clear sign of dehumanization on the part of the author whether they use it consciously or not. The pronoun ‘it’ refers to any possible object, ‘they’ and ‘he or she’ are reserved for human beings. You should also note that I was in fact not making an argument of it, merely noting with fascination the verbiage chosen and using a single sentence to do it. Failing to admit your error on the rules of grammar and getting all snaky about it only makes you look bad. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/196 "2011-11-08T06:33:44Z")
> [@Dissonance](#): > > ‘they’ and ‘he or she’ are reserved for human beings. Uh, no they aren’t. For example, ships are “she” and I just used “they” to describe words; neither of those things are humans. “They” may be now OK for use when speaking of a singular, gender unknown person but way back in the dark ages when I learned such things, it wasn’t OK. We were taught to use “he” - I can go back to that or I can use “it” since I’m not going to bother with “he/she” or anything else that requires piles of typing. Or I can try to remember to do what I did in that one post - use he and she back and forth. Or you can quit being so hypersensitive. A random theoretical child doesn’t need to have you defend it’s (oh crap I did it again) _his_ “humaness”. Tho this does remind me that **Mince** had no answer for that original question. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/197 "2011-11-08T07:30:48Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > I’m sure it is quite possible that some children are born with such mild personalities that they never do the usual running about screaming and yelling. But that sidesteps the issue - what would you do if a child was doing that, since you are against touching them? And what will you do if they don’t respond to “physical interaction.” More pronounced “physical interaction?” ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/198 "2011-11-08T08:04:03Z")
> [@Mince](#): > > And what will you do if they don’t respond to “physical interaction.” More pronounced “physical interaction?” No, I think not. You’ve been dodging most of what I’ve said, so I think it’s time that you put up or shut up. Respond to at least the rest of the post you got the above quote from and I’ll consider continuing. Otherwise, I am just getting too bored with all of your twisting, turning and sidestepping. ---
**Author:** ![Mince](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecd19e/32.png) [@Mince](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mince)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/199 "2011-11-08T08:22:28Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > No, I think not. You’ve been dodging most of what I’ve said, so I think it’s time that you put up or shut up. Respond to at least the rest of the post you got the above quote from and I’ll consider continuing. Otherwise, I am just getting too bored with all of your twisting, turning and sidestepping. Not a chance. I’m done spinning my wheels. If my arguments seem twisted to you, it’s probably because that’s how they course your brain. But don’t answer my above question to me. I don’t need an answer. Answer is privately. What ever will you do when a child doesn’t respond to “physical interaction.” ---
**Author:** ![armedmonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@armedmonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/armedmonkey)\ **Post date:** [November 8, 2011, 9:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752/200 "2011-11-08T09:29:03Z")
Can we get back to **Lynn**? I think the **curlcoat** thing is covering up the larger problem. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-lynn-spare-the-rod-and-spoil-the-child-bodoni/601752.md?page=11)