# Dear Miss Ogynist...Miss Andryst...Miss Anthrope...Miss thang... ahem. Dear catsix, **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112 "2006-08-10T03:42:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/81 "2006-08-10T18:03:05Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > It’s the bolded part. > **catsix** seems to be making two assumptions here. > > 1. The gentleman in quesiton only holds doors for ladies > 2. He thinks women are frail defenseless creatures who can’t take care of themselves. > > It’s sort of a verbal slap in the face to extend a social gesture and have it thrown back at you. That’s pretty much how I read it. While I agree that women shouldn’t be treated as incapable hothouse tomatos, you have no way of knowing the intention of the person on the bus or train or street. Unless they come right out and say, _“Well c’mere, little lady. I’ll handle that. I wouldn’t want you to break a nail.”_ why wouldn’t you automatically assume the person was just being courteous? I expect people to assume the best of me until they learn otherwise, and I try to do the same for them. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/82 "2006-08-10T18:05:30Z")
> [@](#): > > **Kalhoun** said: > Unless they come right out and say, “Well c’mere, little lady. I’ll handle that. I wouldn’t want you to break a nail.” why wouldn’t you automatically assume the person was just being courteous? I expect people to assume the best of me until they learn otherwise, and I try to do the same for them. Because at some point, you get into a discussion about it either in real life or on a message board and you find out that they only offer their seats to handicapped men and oh, any woman. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/83 "2006-08-10T18:05:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Maureen: > It’s sort of a verbal slap in the face to extend a social gesture and have it thrown back at you. No it isn’t because she was stating her opinion on the subject not snarking at some poor door holding man. You can read right in that thread a whole bunch of guys who do indeed open doors for WOMEN because that’s what GENTLEMEN do. catsix think that is insulting and a throwback to “frail ladies” thinking. Again, pretty reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/84 "2006-08-10T18:10:50Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > No it isn’t because she was stating her opinion on the subject not snarking at some poor door holding man. You can read right in that thread a whole bunch of guys who do indeed open doors for WOMEN because that’s what GENTLEMEN do. catsix think that is insulting and a throwback to “frail ladies” thinking. Again, pretty reasonable. How do you know she hasn’t? If someone is so bothered by social gestures that they cannot stop themselves from opening a thread they know will piss them right the fuck off and spout off about how stupid and insulting said social gesture is til the thread is hijacked beyond saving, it’s also reasonable to assume that person has no qualms about telling that “poor door holding man” precisely what she thinks about his good manners. And no. I don’t think “it’s the polite thing to do” is reasonably translated into “you’re a frail lady I have to do this for you.” ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/85 "2006-08-10T18:18:53Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > Because at some point, you get into a discussion about it either in real life or on a message board and you find out that they only offer their seats to handicapped men and oh, any woman. 😕 “They” as in the self-same person who held the door/offered the seat earlier? Just because some other guy on the Net gives his motivations, that doesn’t mean you should assume the next guy to be courteous to you IRL has the same motivations. That said, it sounds like you actually don’t make an issue of this in real life. So no harm done. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/86 "2006-08-10T18:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > How do you know she hasn’t? [lame conjecture and speculation snipped] Umm, who cares. We’re talking about what has happened here and actually she specifically said she wouldn’t bitch out some guy for offering a seat. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/87 "2006-08-10T18:27:56Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > How do you know she hasn’t? If someone is so bothered by social gestures that they cannot stop themselves from opening a thread they know will piss them right the fuck off and spout off about how stupid and insulting said social gesture is til the thread is hijacked beyond saving, it’s also reasonable to assume that person has no qualms about telling that “poor door holding man” precisely what she thinks about his good manners. > **And no. I don’t think “it’s the polite thing to do” is reasonably translated into "you’re a frail lady I have to do this for you."** I was going to mention this. Since when does “gentleman” equal “sexist pig”? gen·tle·man ( P ) Pronunciation Key (jntl-mn) n. A man of gentle or noble birth or superior social position: “He’s too much a gentleman to be a scholar” (Aphra Behn). \*\*A well-mannered and considerate man with high standards of proper behavior. \*\* See Usage Note at lady. A man of independent means who does not need to have a wage-paying job. A man: Do you know this gentleman? gentlemen (-mn) Used as a form of address for a group of men. A manservant; a valet. ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/88 "2006-08-10T18:47:58Z")
> [@catsix](#): > > How about the guys who practically run a girl over to get in front of them to open the door for them? > > Can I find that annoying or would it be bitchy of me? Nope. So long as you feel the same way about an overly helpful teenage girl. Or a woman in her mid-twenties whose hands are free when you are carrying packages. Or a girl scout. Or a boy scout. I see no reason to limit your snarling disdain to gentle **men** of a certain age. Listen, **catsix** , I have an idea. This discussion seems split about 50/50. We could end the debate right now if there were some simple system to determine which people are receptive to niceties; and which prefer to be left alone. For instance- in the wild animals that should not be approached sport bright, garish coloration. Or bold patterns. Or rattles, spines, or stinky sprays. How about you exhibit some outward and obvious sign when you are adamant about opening doors for yourself so that the rest of us know to step back? Would you consider wearing an offensive scent like anchovies or rancid butter? Maybe shake your keys at us or hiss or something? 'Cause some of us would still like to extend common courtesy to the anonymous masses if at all possible. With your permission, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/89 "2006-08-10T19:13:24Z")
Somewhat surprisingly, I seem to find myself on the same side of this debate as **Maureen** and **Kalhoun** , which is pretty damn rare. _cracks open three cold ones and hands two of them round, vaguely aware that the bonhomie may be short in duration_ 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/90 "2006-08-10T19:16:10Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Umm, who cares. We’re talking about what has happened here and actually she specifically said she wouldn’t bitch out some guy for offering a seat. Then why rail about it here? Seriously, if it’s important enough to spout off in several threads about how you aren’t some weak little female and you don’t need anyone’s help and you find it insulting and demeaning to have the door held for you, then holy fuck, have the balls to say it to the schlub that’s offending you. Or, y’know, don’t, but shut up going on about it already. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/91 "2006-08-10T19:20:12Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Somewhat surprisingly, I seem to find myself on the same side of this debate as **Maureen** and **Kalhoun** , which is pretty damn rare. > > _cracks open three cold ones and hands two of them round, vaguely aware that the bonhomie may be short in duration_ 🙂 Can you crack open a fourth? Because I’m with you…also in agreement, and surprised to see who I am on the same side of the fence with! 🙂 Just make mine non-alcoholic, as it’s not a great plan to be boozing it up in the first trimester! 🙂 Seriously, people who have such a chip on their shoulder that they can’t accept a kindness from a stranger, need to just settle down. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/92 "2006-08-10T19:24:20Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Then why rail about it here? Yeah, I mean God fucking forbid someone give an opinion in IMHO! ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/93 "2006-08-10T19:27:57Z")
> [@XJETGIRLX](#): > > Yeah, I mean God fucking forbid someone give an opinion in IMHO! Oh, go fuck yourself. 1. She already said that, and it was a piss poor excuse even when she did it, given that she just can’t seem to stop herself from posting invective any time the subject comes up regardless of the forum. She hates it. We get it. Move the fuck on. 2. If it’s so minor IRL that you can’t be buggered to say anything about it, but here it’s a subject you will defend with your dying breath, then either you’re really really bored or you’re fucking trolling. Which option do you prefer? ---
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/94 "2006-08-10T19:28:40Z")
Maybe it’s just me, but I think that in order to assume that everyone who holds a door or offers you a seat is actually \*oppressing \* you, you’d have to be really awfully invested in being a victim. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/95 "2006-08-10T19:32:46Z")
> [@DianaG](#): > > Maybe it’s just me, but I think that in order to assume that everyone who holds a door or offers you a seat is actually \*oppressing \* you, you’d have to be really awfully invested in being a victim. Well, exactly. Could it be that some people just look for excuses to be wounded, because it suits their goal in life to hate everybody & think the world is full of assholes? ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/96 "2006-08-10T19:39:03Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > Oh, go fuck yourself. Classy lady we got here, no? I bet all the guys hold the door open for you. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/97 "2006-08-10T19:39:16Z")
That’s such a pretty straw man being built here. Especially since **most** of what I’ve been arguing against has been the ‘I’ll offer my seat to **any woman** but would only offer it to a **disabled man**.’ Instead of sticking with that, some of you decide to go off on a wild fucking tangent about door-holding, which I said **only really bothers me if a man insists he will not walk through a door I have opened**. I’ve also stuck to agruing the attitude expressed by **Cemetery Savior** , **Sampiro** , and others who insist that there’s nothing at all implied by giving your seat to a woman when you wouldn’t do the same for an equally able-bodied man. Good thing y’all have your strawsix to attack. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/98 "2006-08-10T19:39:55Z")
Could someone point out the invective **catsix** used, that\*\* Maureen \*\*says is ever present, or where she said she was being actually oppressed, as claimed by **DianaG**. I saw others try to imply that was her point: > [@](#): > > **Antigen** : > Oh for goodness’ sake, it’s a respect thing. They’re not chaining you in the kitchen telling you to make pie and babies, they’re offering you a seat. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/99 "2006-08-10T19:48:22Z")
> [@Jodi](#): > > She may be IRL, but on the Boards, in threads like the linked one, she comes across as angry and mean. This seems true, from what I have seen. And, just because you have met someone at a Dopefest doesn’t mean you know what they are really like. I have known dudes who were Mr Politeness when 1st met, but turned to Mr Asshole as soon as you got to know them better. I don’t know **Catsix** from Eve, but I do know enough to not think I really know someone from meeting them once at a party, or from their postings on a MB. So, Catsix IRL may or may not be a wonderful person, but Catsix SDMB personae is bitter and abrasive. Yes, I am one of those dudes that usually offer my seat- to those much older, preggers, or PD. Women- sometimes, it all depends. If they have an armload of packages and look like they really need a seat, then sure. You know, you hear the same thing from PD dudes- some get angry whenever anyone offers help, and others get angry whenever dudes don’t offer help. Outside of **Beaucarnea** ’s idea of warning signs- how is one to know? We stand an equal risk of being considerd a thoughtless asshole if we offer help, and if we don’t. _But we can’t know until we offer it._ So, I offer anyway, given that I am the sort of person I am- since I have no way of knowing you are the sort of person you are. To get angry at me for offering then is IMHO wrong. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SeaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDog)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/100 "2006-08-10T19:49:20Z")
Dare I venture into the pit… meh, what the hell… If you are old, pregnant, injured or generally in more need of a seat then me I’m going to offer it to you as that’s how I was raised. If you are a fine looking woman I’m going to offer you my seat cause maybe I’m trying to strike up a conversation\* Just wondering if the ladies that object to being offered a seat also object to being offered a drink at a bar. Maybe you think that us guys are offering you a drink cause you are to poor, scared or otherwise unable to get a drink yourselves? - I’m happily married so the fine lookin women will have to pry the seat out from under my cold dead arse! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112.md?page=6)