# Dear Miss Ogynist...Miss Andryst...Miss Anthrope...Miss thang... ahem. Dear catsix, **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 10, 2006, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112 "2006-08-10T03:42:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/101 "2006-08-10T19:50:57Z")
> [@XJETGIRLX](#): > > Classy lady we got here, no? I bet all the guys hold the door open for you. The one that matters does, yes. One of the many reasons why I married him. So, this is all you got? You can’t respond to the actual arguments so you went with the fact that I (to borrow your phraseology) used harsh language? In _gasp_ the PIT? God fucking forbid. How about that. It’s just as classy a word when you use it. ---
**Author:** ![lokij](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5e9695/32.png) [@lokij](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lokij)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/102 "2006-08-10T19:58:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Could someone explain what is hyper defensive or angry and mean about: > > Seems pretty reasonable and the only rebuttal given her is “It’s tradition, you angry idiot” I’ll give my rebuttal, I mean… other than the fact that I do it because I like to. If you’re going to have a polite societal heirarchy on who is entitled to seating first, then a line must be drawn somewhere. I treat people the way I would like to be treated, if there was no line and for example I offered my seat to able bodied males (my peers) then the rule would be essentially meaningless because it would mean that the guy who just accepted my offer would feel compelled to offer me that same seat in return. Nobody would get to sit comfortably. Catsix asked in the other threat what is so wrong with first come first serve… well… nothing I suppose if you’re oblivious to the needs and comfort of your fellow passengers. It is obvious to me that a disabled person should sit before the pregnant, the pregnant before the elderly, the elderly before ladies and ladies before men because that is a logical progresion on the likelyhood of discomfort at standing. Now, you may ask why women before men and I’ll tell you that it’s hard to tell if a particular female is pregnant, she might be… she might have just puked her guts out before getting on the bus with morning sickness. She might be having cramps, hell she might just be coming back from a full time job, still have to cook dinner and clean the house as a single mother. I can’t tell any of that by just glancing,… maybe on occasion my courtesy might be misplaced (unnecessary in the case of able bodied women for example, then the polite thing to do on their end would be IMO to decline my offer) but I’d rather be safe than sorry. In short, I treat women the way I’d like other men to treat my wife, daughter, mother and sister… with the utmost respect. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/103 "2006-08-10T20:06:00Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > The one that matters does, yes. One of the many reasons why I married him. > So, this is all you got? You can’t respond to the actual arguments so you went with the fact that I (to borrow your phraseology) used harsh language? In _gasp_ the PIT? God fucking forbid. How about that. It’s just as classy a word when you use it. I’m sorry. You had an argument there? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/104 "2006-08-10T20:08:01Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Could someone point out the invective **catsix** used, that\*\* Maureen \*\*says is ever present, or where she said she was being actually oppressed, as claimed by **DianaG**. I saw others try to imply that was her point: Well, she said this, for one thing: > [@catsix](#): > > Chivalry is built around the premise that women are dainty and weak and need to be protected and coddled and shown deference no matter what their abilities that a man would not get. It doesn’t exactly do much for equal treatment. This certainly implies that if the tradition of men deferring seats or holding doors for women continues, then it threatens male/female equality in general. I think this is a huge leap to make, and I think that this kind of attitude actually _hurts_ the cause of equality of the sexes. No guy wants to be accused of being some kind of misogynist jerk when he is only trying to be nice or do what his mother taught him. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/105 "2006-08-10T20:15:08Z")
> [@XJETGIRLX](#): > > I’m sorry. You had an argument there? Yup. When you’re ready to address it, you let me know. Or, y’know, keep tossing out lame insults. They’re a fun way to spend the afternoon, but everyone else is probably bored with it. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/106 "2006-08-10T20:26:30Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] That’s such a pretty straw man being built here. Especially since **most** of what I’ve been arguing against has been the ‘I’ll offer my seat to **any woman** but would only offer it to a **disabled man**.’ [/QUOTE] Oh come on. At the very worst, it’s an old-fashioned and silly attitude. Nothing to get yourself all foaming at the mouth over. Jesus, you’re gonna have a heart attack before you’re thirty-five if you don’t calm down every once in a while. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/107 "2006-08-10T20:28:34Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] Can you crack open a fourth? Because I’m with you…also in agreement, and surprised to see who I am on the same side of the fence with! 🙂 Just make mine non-alcoholic, as it’s not a great plan to be boozing it up in the first trimester! 🙂 Seriously, people who have such a chip on their shoulder that they can’t accept a kindness from a stranger, need to just settle down. [/QUOTE] Drink fast, everyone. (We’ll put yours in the fridge, Sarafeena). 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/108 "2006-08-10T20:32:34Z")
First trimester? Congrats, **Sarahfeena**! ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/109 "2006-08-10T20:32:39Z")
[QUOTE=SeaDog] Just wondering if the ladies that object to being offered a seat also object to being offered a drink at a bar. Maybe you think that us guys are offering you a drink cause you are to poor, scared or otherwise unable to get a drink yourselves? [/QUOTE] No, we don’t like to be offered drinks at a bar because it is a tacit invitation by the dude in question to waddle himself over and feel like he’s entitled to have a conversation with me, and maybe even have sex with me, and it puts me into this really uncomfortable what-the-fuck anxiety spiral that is better off avoided. Plus there might be drugs in the drink. Who knows? I also do not see where **catsix** is being abrasive here. I guess she might sound that way if you really WANT her to, but I think a lot of you are projecting something that is not there. I also agree with her, but I don’t think that colors my perceptions too much. “Chivalry” IS annoying to some, it IS condescending to some, it DOES make some women feel shitty. Maybe not this fictitious “lady” you’re all talking about, but why can’t some women have their opinion on it? I also have a hard time believing people would be this riled if it was not **catsix** who responded with these anti-“chivalry” statements. I don’t know why she claims to hate feminists though, seeing as how she is one. Haven’t you read any Germaine Greer? ---
**Author:** ![Ghanima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Ghanima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ghanima)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/110 "2006-08-10T20:33:46Z")
Here I go again, I know I’m going to regret this, but oh well, it’s not like any of you know where I live… I think it’s important to preserve the idea of behaving differently (i.e. “respectfully”) toward women. I think that this is a way of society protecting both men and women (and young women in particular), and despite what **catsix** and others say I believe that the young women in our society do need protection. (No, I’m not saying that every man is secretly a rapist or anything, but I do think that young women in particular are a very targeted group in society for harassment and exploitation. They are unmistakably sexual beings whether they are aware of it or not and this attracts attention, often unwanted attention.) The societal standard of having men act extraordinarily “respectful” of women and young women in particular creates a perceived boundary or distance that protects both young women and men. By providing boundaries, “manners” help create an environment where we feel and where we are safer. The true societal purpose behind a man holding a door open for a woman is not to save the woman from doing the labor of opening the door herself. It is to indicate that the man is showing undue respect for women, thereby signalling that one is operating within the type of society that one is familiar with, to prevent forcing a woman to ask for help if she needs it, which puts her automatically in a vulnerable position, and to distinguish him from the sort of man who has no respect for women and is therefore to be avoided. It is a play of signals that put both people at ease. It has nothing to do with the strength of one’s biceps. I hope I’m getting my thought across. One only has signals and body language to work with when one is interacting with strangers. This type of behavior is useful. To abolish it would mean that you are ridding your society of the types of signals that allow you to judge what kind of situations or persons you are dealing with. This seems infinitely more inconsiderate and dangerous to me. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/111 "2006-08-10T20:33:51Z")
> [@](#): > > **Guinastasia** said: > Oh come on. At the very worst, it’s an old-fashioned and silly attitude. Nothing to get yourself all foaming at the mouth over. > > Jesus, you’re gonna have a heart attack before you’re thirty-five if you don’t calm down every once in a while. Still afraid to ride the bus by yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/112 "2006-08-10T20:34:44Z")
That and “chivalry” is more than just treating women a certain way-it was built around an entire code of being an honorable warrior and knight. Yes, how women were to be treated was part of it, but that’s not what it was ALL about. **Kalhoun** , got any Carolan’s? ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/113 "2006-08-10T20:37:28Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] First trimester? Congrats, **Sarahfeena**! [/QUOTE] Thanks! 🙂 Be sure to save a seat for me on the bus in a few months! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/114 "2006-08-10T20:37:33Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] Still afraid to ride the bus by yourself? [/QUOTE] Nope, never have been. If you’re referring to what I think you’re referring to, nice strawman.\* \*[sub]I think once I said I was wary of taking a job in a certain part of town where I didn’t feel comfortable traveling alone at night. catsix, in her usual stupidity and way of twisting everyone’s remarks around, takes that to assume I’m afraid to even venture outside my door or some such nonsense.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Beaucarnea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c0e974/32.png) [@Beaucarnea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beaucarnea)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/115 "2006-08-10T20:47:13Z")
[QUOTE=catsix] That’s such a pretty straw man being built here. Especially since **most** of what I’ve been arguing against has been the ‘I’ll offer my seat to **any woman** but would only offer it to a **disabled man**.’ Instead of sticking with that, some of you decide to go off on a wild fucking tangent about door-holding, which I said **only really bothers me if a man insists he will not walk through a door I have opened**. I’ve also stuck to agruing the attitude expressed by **Cemetery Savior** , **Sampiro** , and others who insist that there’s nothing at all implied by giving your seat to a woman when you wouldn’t do the same for an equally able-bodied man. Good thing y’all have your strawsix to attack. [/QUOTE] _Strawman?_ Are you serious? Insinuating that this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with your vehement opposition to (possibly old-fashioned) polite behavior from men? You re-stated your position on door holding in the original thread this morning- after the pit thread was started. And you did so politely and calmly. This morning. So you backtrack a little bit and yell strawman. Unh uh. No one has changed the subject on you. If we interchanged each mention of door holding with giving up a seat the argument would be the same. Door, seat, hat, coat thrown over a puddle- if a man surrenders his position in favor of you then you call discrimination and overreact. Which makes men a little more reluctant to interact, strangers a little more uncertain of what is polite and what is forbidden, and society a little more hateful. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/116 "2006-08-10T20:47:19Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] That and “chivalry” is more than just treating women a certain way-it was built around an entire code of being an honorable warrior and knight. Yes, how women were to be treated was part of it, but that’s not what it was ALL about. **Kalhoun** , got any Carolan’s? [/QUOTE] What’s a _Carolan’s?_ ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/117 "2006-08-10T20:54:17Z")
Sorry, a brand of Irish cream. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/118 "2006-08-10T21:09:38Z")
[QUOTE=davenportavenger] … and it puts me into this really uncomfortable what-the-fuck anxiety spiral that is better off avoided… [/QUOTE] It’d probably save time for you to just list the things that _don’t_ send you into a what-the-fuck anxiety spiral. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/119 "2006-08-10T21:14:03Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Sorry, a brand of Irish cream. [/QUOTE] Oooooooh. No but I’ll get some…be right back! ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2006, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112/120 "2006-08-10T21:15:00Z")
[QUOTE=Beaucarnea] _Strawman?_ Are you serious? Insinuating that this discussion has nothing whatsoever to do with your vehement opposition to (possibly old-fashioned) polite behavior from men? You re-stated your position on door holding in the original thread this morning- after the pit thread was started. And you did so politely and calmly. This morning. So you backtrack a little bit and yell strawman. Unh uh. No one has changed the subject on you. If we interchanged each mention of door holding with giving up a seat the argument would be the same. Door, seat, hat, coat thrown over a puddle- if a man surrenders his position in favor of you then you call discrimination and overreact. Which makes men a little more reluctant to interact, strangers a little more uncertain of what is polite and what is forbidden, and society a little more hateful. [/QUOTE] You’re frothing and foaming pretty good now, me ol’ hosiery. As you well know, what with your multiple identities here and all, this is just a discussion board. We express opinions here. Catsix has expressed an opinion regarding “chivalrous” actions here. Nothing more. All the rest of this is just you sputtering. I can only surmise that, in your real identity in some other thread, she brutally and publically sodomized you. This lame-ass thread is some kind of attempt at revenge w/o risking the dignity of your “real” identity further. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-miss-ogynist-miss-andryst-miss-anthrope-miss-thang-ahem-dear-catsix/368112.md?page=7)