# Dear Mississippi Tea Party: Are You Sure Inciting Treason Isn't A Crime? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 1, 2012, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885 "2012-07-01T10:35:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/121 "2012-07-09T16:03:30Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Well, if the insurance company needs information on guys working in their living rooms, they should compile it. It’s what they do with other forms of insurance. > > Why would they need that, though? Are your health needs inherently different from an employee of MegaCorp just because you don’t happen to work for them? No, but you are just one person, while the employee of MegaCorp is one of hundreds or thousands. That’s the difference. Bigger pool, the more the risk is spread and the more likely it will contain healthy young people as well as old and sick. And a group brings lots of customers instead of just one, so the standard economy of size applies, so the company gets a group rate. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/122 "2012-07-09T16:15:32Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > What about vaccinations in the face of an epidemic? Not even then? Barring blood-thirsty insurance companies, let’s just put the entire burden of a health crisis on non-profits like the Red Cross. That oughta be enough. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/123 "2012-07-09T16:15:49Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > No, but you are just one person, while the employee of MegaCorp is one of hundreds or thousands. That’s the difference. Bigger pool, the more the risk is spread and the more likely it will contain healthy young people as well as old and sick. And a group brings lots of customers instead of just one, so the standard economy of size applies, so the company gets a group rate. Just one reason why opposition to UHC and this insistence on private competition baffles me. If bigger risk pools are better, then separating the US out into individual companies is just plain stupid. One risk pool of 312 million people would clearly be fantastic. This is simply not an area where competition is healthy. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/124 "2012-07-09T16:21:05Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Just one reason why opposition to UHC and this insistence on private competition baffles me. If bigger risk pools are better, then separating the US out into individual companies is just plain stupid. One risk pool of 312 million people would clearly be fantastic. > > This is simply not an area where competition is healthy. “But – but… I’m young and healthy! Why should _I_ have to pay for _their_ colonoscopy?!” Says the 20-something who will one day have a chronic kidney problem. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/125 "2012-07-09T16:24:24Z")
Yeah, but they still won’t need a colonoscopy. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/126 "2012-07-09T16:27:12Z")
Does anyone ever really _need_ a colonoscopy? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/127 "2012-07-09T16:29:51Z")
Just some asshole. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/128 "2012-07-09T16:33:12Z")
I won’t pay taxes for assholes. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/129 "2012-07-09T16:36:30Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > No, but you are just one person, while the employee of MegaCorp is one of hundreds or thousands. That’s the difference. Bigger pool, the more the risk is spread and the more likely it will contain healthy young people as well as old and sick. And a group brings lots of customers instead of just one, so the standard economy of size applies, so the company gets a group rate. Why is health insurance different from car insurance in that regard? My car insurance company puts me in a pool called “all our customers”. They spread the risk around for me. Why do I have to form my own pool to get health insurance? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/130 "2012-07-09T16:36:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I do. Because I don’t agree that Christian principles should form the basis of secular policy. Do you think they should? You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that religious groups have exclusive domain over humanitarianism. That is, that if a policy is enacted that is ethical and helps people, it must _ipso facto_ be a religious policy. I disagree with this. UHC is not a policy of “Christian principles” Good non-religious policy may at times intersect with Christian principles, but that does not mean the policy is derived from them. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/131 "2012-07-09T16:46:06Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > Just one reason why opposition to UHC and this insistence on private competition baffles me. If bigger risk pools are better, then separating the US out into individual companies is just plain stupid. One risk pool of 312 million people would clearly be fantastic. But if you’re in a nice low-risk pool (and therefore paying less) you want to keep it that way. One risk pool would be good, but it still might raise costs for some who are paying less than what the overall risk should reflect. Certainly it will cost us all more to insure poor people who need subsidies to join the pool instead of paying for it themselves. Hence the resistance, justified or not. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/132 "2012-07-09T16:47:47Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Why is health insurance different from car insurance in that regard? My car insurance company puts me in a pool called “all our customers”. They spread the risk around for me. Why do I have to form my own pool to get health insurance? Because that’s how we’ve been doing it for a long time - employer-provided insurance instead of buying it yourself. We’re just stuck in that now. Employers get big tax breaks for providing health insurance, and employees aren’t taxed on it like income. Unions include it in their contracts. Etc. Interestingly, John McCain’s health reform plan in 2008 was to get rid of the tax breaks and force everyone to buy it themselves instead. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/133 "2012-07-09T16:50:12Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Why is health insurance different from car insurance in that regard? My car insurance company puts me in a pool called “all our customers”. They spread the risk around for me. Why do I have to form my own pool to get health insurance? One WAG is pre-existing conditions. “Oh, you have breast cancer? We’ll, pfff, you can’t honestly think we’re going to pick you up as a customer, knowing you have breast cancer. Do you know how much those treatments cost—what am I saying, of _course_ you do! Welp, good luck with ALLLL that…” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/134 "2012-07-09T16:58:24Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that religious groups have exclusive domain over humanitarianism. That is, that if a policy is enacted that is ethical and helps people, it must _ipso facto_ be a religious policy. > > I disagree with this. UHC is not a policy of “Christian principles” Good non-religious policy may at times intersect with Christian principles, but that does not mean the policy is derived from them. Calm down. People are calling him out for not supporting UHC since he’s a Christian. He’s just responding to them. **Polycarp** is the one who brought it up in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/135 "2012-07-09T17:05:00Z")
> [@lance\_strongarm](#): > > Because that’s how we’ve been doing it for a long time - employer-provided insurance instead of buying it yourself. We’re just stuck in that now. Employers get big tax breaks for providing health insurance, and employees aren’t taxed on it like income. Unions include it in their contracts. Etc. > > Interestingly, John McCain’s health reform plan in 2008 was to get rid of the tax breaks and force everyone to buy it themselves instead. Yes, this too. It just totally defies common sense. Why have insurance at all? Why do we need this middle man, draining money from those in bad positions in the first place. A person isn’t something a value can be applied upon (that is, if you have any fucking empathy); we/our bodies are not a product or a luxury. There is inherent risk, only in the sense that everyone’s life is at the mercy of our environment and circumstance. Technology keeps bringing us more miracles of medicine, and also at great cost, but it is universally considered unethical to deny healthcare to those that need it. Which is, oh, everybody in the world. So what do we do? We put health care under an “insurance model” that really just ends up fucking everyone over, because people, as said, are priceless entities that _can’t_ be denied any care they require. It’s all a total ruse. Health insurance my soon to be colonoscopy’d asshole. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/136 "2012-07-09T17:17:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Calm down. People are calling him out for not supporting UHC since he’s a Christian. He’s just responding to them. **Polycarp** is the one who brought it up in the first place. But he said: > [@Bricker](#): > > Because a secular government’s proper role is not to give out health care. So, this implies that UHC is only “proper” for a theocratic, Christian government? Fuck that shit. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/137 "2012-07-09T17:29:23Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > A person isn’t something a value can be applied upon (that is, if you have any fucking empathy); we/our bodies are not a product or a luxury. > > There is inherent risk, only in the sense that everyone’s life is at the mercy of our environment and circumstance. Technology keeps bringing us more miracles of medicine, and also at great cost, but it is universally considered unethical to deny healthcare to those that need it. Which is, oh, everybody in the world. > > So what do we do? We put health care under an “insurance model” that really just ends up fucking everyone over, because people, as said, are priceless entities that _can’t_ be denied any care they require. Well, yes, we can and do put a value on a life - even a government-run UHC system would do that. UHC isn’t all that different than private insurance, just bigger and better. It would put a higher price on life, but still a price. People can be denied coverage for care at a certain level. Nobody will ever get unlimited care. And they shouldn’t, because our resources are limited and that money would have to cost other people their care. So let’s not pretend like private insurance is inherently evil and UHC would be holy and good. ---
**Author:** ![cmyk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyk/32/3353_2.png) [@cmyk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmyk)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/138 "2012-07-09T17:51:49Z")
I didn’t say either one is good or evil, only that for all practical portents and purposes, insurance for health is a bullshit model in the modern age. Of course you can put a price on a human life, but to demonstrate that in terms of a for-profit health insurance racket certainly does smell like evil. That said, the ACA that’s being put into place isn’t even ideal, but it’s a start. What’s needed is a new model to bring modern medicine to any who needs it. And of course, resources are limited and there are times where practical measures of care, respite and hospice are necessary, but let the doctors and patients decide that, not the health insurance companies. Despite the economy, this nation has wealth. Other than greed, there’s no reason to just not be done with this archaic insurance model; set up when health care consisted of bloodletting and having your kin take the horse-drawn carriage to purchase an elixir from your local apothecary. Tax us, and let’s call it a day. We all pay one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![lance\_strongarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/87869e/32.png) [@lance\_strongarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lance_strongarm)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/139 "2012-07-09T18:15:00Z")
> [@cmyk](#): > > I didn’t say either one is good or evil, only that for all practical portents and purposes, insurance for health is a bullshit model in the modern age. I don’t understand what you mean then. Private vs. public insurance? Government-run UHC would still work like insurance. > [@](#): > > Of course you can put a price on a human life, but to demonstrate that in terms of a for-profit health insurance racket certainly does smell like evil. A company that makes money by keeping you healthy? Doesn’t sound that evil. > [@](#): > > That said, the ACA that’s being put into place isn’t even ideal, but it’s a start. What’s needed is a new model to bring modern medicine to any who needs it. And of course, resources are limited and there are times where practical measures of care, respite and hospice are necessary, but let the doctors and patients decide that, not the health insurance companies. But the doctors wouldn’t be more in control in a new system either. They’d still be limited in what would be paid for by the UHC system. > [@](#): > > Despite the economy, this nation has wealth. Other than greed, there’s no reason to just not be done with this archaic insurance model; You’d pay thousands of dollars more each year for it? > [@](#): > > set up when health care consisted of bloodletting and having your kin take the horse-drawn carriage to purchase an elixir from your local apothecary. Well, no, it wasn’t. Those are the days when we didn’t need insurance at all. > [@](#): > > Tax us, and let’s call it a day. We all pay one way or another. I agree, but you’re overstating the case. It won’t be cheap and it won’t make us all magically healthy and overflowing with unlimited health. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2012, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885/140 "2012-07-09T18:18:51Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Calm down. People are calling him out for not supporting UHC since he’s a Christian. He’s just responding to them. **Polycarp** is the one who brought it up in the first place. \ Actually, I am pretty calm. Also, what **cmyk** said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-mississippi-tea-party-are-you-sure-inciting-treason-isnt-a-crime/626885.md?page=8)