# Dear red light and stop sign right turner **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251 "2008-10-23T20:11:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/1 "2008-10-23T20:11:36Z")
You’re making it more dangerous for all of us by not stopping completely before making your right turn (where legal). Please consider taking some proper driver training so you might be able to understand why you shouldn’t do this. Thanks. ps - this includes rolling stops, which aren’t stops at all, and are as illegal as blasting through at full speed. pps - a special shout-out for the idiot who hit an acquaintance of mine because she didn’t start going when the light turned green fast enough; you hit her from behind, and then blamed her for not going fast enough. “Idiot” doesn’t even start to cover your incompetence at driving. ---
**Author:** ![Earthworm\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f07891/32.png) [@Earthworm\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earthworm_Jim)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/2 "2008-10-23T20:20:37Z")
word. But, if I may? ppps: another special shout out to those who try to make a right turn _from the center lane_ and then blame the resulting accident on you because “you must have been driving too close to me!” ETA: Yeah, in MY FREAKING LANE!! You new to this ‘driving’ thing or what? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/3 "2008-10-23T20:32:35Z")
This hapens at a particular intersection in a particularly egregious way. People want to turn right from a small side street onto a busy main street. They are often so focused on the oncoming traffic that they fail to look at who might be in the crosswalk in front of them. I’ve nearly been run over a few times. These days I just assume that everyone is an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/4 "2008-10-23T20:37:02Z")
Anytime people are driving in an inconsistent way from others - you’re in a dangerous situation. That said, the U.S. relies on stop signs, signals and speed limits changes far too much for actual driver safety - in fact, all of these things make driving far more dangerous. There really is no reason why a driver should concentrate on stopping at an intersection with no other cars around - and other countries like Britain have sensibly incorporated this understanding into their laws. ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/5 "2008-10-23T21:18:27Z")
I TOTALLY paused!!! 😛 ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/6 "2008-10-23T21:22:54Z")
Ahhh, Calgary. ---
**Author:** ![Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Hazle\_Weatherfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazle_Weatherfield)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/7 "2008-10-23T21:24:05Z")
Word, featherlou! This is one of my pettest peeves, ever! I ALWAYS come to a complete stop, then get honked at by the assholes who roll through and think they got there first. Of course they did. They didn’t bother to stop! You stop first, you go first! Sometimes, I think I’m the only one in the world who actually does this! ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/8 "2008-10-23T21:27:35Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > These days I just assume that everyone is an asshole. It’s been that way for a while, actually. [QUOTE=Mr. Moto] That said, the U.S. relies on stop signs, signals and speed limits changes far too much for actual driver safety - in fact, all of these things make driving far more dangerous. [/QUOTE] I’m intrigued. Stop signs are far more dangerous than no stop signs? Can you elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/9 "2008-10-23T21:32:10Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Anytime people are driving in an inconsistent way from others - you’re in a dangerous situation. > > That said, the U.S. relies on stop signs, signals and speed limits changes far too much for actual driver safety - in fact, all of these things make driving far more dangerous. There really is no reason why a driver should concentrate on stopping at an intersection with no other cars around - and other countries like Britain have sensibly incorporated this understanding into their laws. The roads by my house are littered with crosses from people thinking there were no other cars coming. People think “ah-ha! It’s flat out here for miles around and sparsely populated!” and don’t realize how big of a car can hide behind that berm and all those tumbleweeds. I’ve almost been hit a few times by one of these clowns, one that came within seconds of T-boning me at around 70mph. Also a hearty “Fuck you!” to the truckers at the distribution warehouse that ignore the stop sign before turning left onto a 3-lane divided road. One almost hit me today, because he was too lazy to actually stop and gear his truck up again. I see this every day. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/10 "2008-10-23T21:43:47Z")
I drive “green”. I maintain my momentum, thereby saving gas. 😉 If its **safe to go** , I go. Good for me, good for you, good for the planet! 😃 Stop signs are for people too stupid to understand the concept of “yield”. Frankly, _they_ don’t belong on the road. “Good” driving mean good decision making. You need to do it constantly. Reliance on strict rules doesn’t make you a “good driver”. Good decision making and vehicle control skills make you a good driver. And frankly, \*Fuck Off \*if you disagree. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dread_pirate_jimbo/32/3897_2.png) [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dread_Pirate_Jimbo)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/11 "2008-10-23T21:49:25Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I drive “green”. I maintain my momentum, thereby saving gas. 😉 If its **safe to go** , I go. Good for me, good for you, good for the planet! 😃 > > Stop signs are for people too stupid to understand the concept of “yield”. Frankly, _they_ don’t belong on the road. “Good” driving mean good decision making. You need to do it constantly. Reliance on strict rules doesn’t make you a “good driver”. Good decision making and vehicle control skills make you a good driver. > > And frankly, \*Fuck Off \*if you disagree. 🆒 A huge part of good driving skills is conducting yourself in a manner that is consistent with the rules of the road so that every other driver doesn’t have to constantly guess at your intentions. You’re “good decision making” is probably causing other drivers to have to read and react far more than they should, which adds a bunch of new variables into the driving equation, which makes every minor lapse in judgment that much more dangerous (and we all have them from time to time), which leads to more collisions, which leads to more people lined up in gridlock waiting for the road to get cleared, which is decidedly un-green. Nice try to legitimize your dangerous style, though. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/12 "2008-10-23T22:15:33Z")
> [@Dread\_Pirate\_Jimbo](#): > > Nice try to legitimize your dangerous style, though. 🙂 Yeah. Thats pretty cool, huh? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Susie\_Derkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47774/32.png) [@Susie\_Derkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Susie_Derkins)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/13 "2008-10-23T22:17:58Z")
Anyone else sing the thread title in their head as if it were the beginning of a “Real Men of Genius” Budweiser commercial? ---
**Author:** ![Rapier42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/90db22/32.png) [@Rapier42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rapier42)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/14 "2008-10-23T22:22:35Z")
> [@Contrapuntal](#): > > I’m intrigued. Stop signs are far more dangerous than no stop signs? Can you elaborate? I can’t remember the name of the place, but there is at least one town in England where they’ve largely done away with stop signs and traffic laws. Drivers are expected to pay attention and yeild where appropriate. IIRC, they had a brief up-tick in the number of fender benders, but other than that, accident rates went down. It’s been a year or more since I read about it though, I dunno how they’re doing now. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/15 "2008-10-23T22:32:03Z")
I’ll admit to rolling stops at red lights and stop signs when turning right…if nobody else is around. Otherwise, I always stop. My pet peeve is people not signalling when they turn, or whom slam on their brakes before a turn, and THEN turn on their signal. Why bother then? ---
**Author:** ![Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/13edae/32.png) [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Interconnected_Series_of_Tubes)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/16 "2008-10-23T22:39:00Z")
Dear red light and stop sign right turner, You’re really pissing all of us behind you right off by stopping completely at the red light to make your turn (where perfectly safe.) I know you’re nestled up in your cocoon of smug, rule-abiding superiority. Please, you know, actually drive around for a while before inconveniencing all of us by failing to join the flow of traffic when expedient. Really, it’s okay - none of us will tell on you if you simply slow down, check to make sure it’s safe, and turn like a normal person. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/17 "2008-10-23T22:41:41Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Anytime people are driving in an inconsistent way from others - you’re in a dangerous situation. > > That said, the U.S. relies on stop signs, signals and speed limits changes far too much for actual driver safety - in fact, all of these things make driving far more dangerous. There really is no reason why a driver should concentrate on stopping at an intersection with no other cars around - and other countries like Britain have sensibly incorporated this understanding into their laws. Yes, but that may be because you come from a town where there are stop signs at the ends of on ramps to freeways. A couple of years ago, I had to make a left turn over a bridge at a stop light. At least a couple of times a week, I saw people who I knew had to be making left turns on red onto the road I was on because they were making them while my light was green! This wasn’t a case of “the light was orange when I entered the intersection.” They were entering it while my light was green, and I don’t think the timing on the lights was that badly fouled up. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/18 "2008-10-23T23:00:44Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > I drive “green”. I maintain my momentum, thereby saving gas. 😉 If its **safe to go** , I go. Good for me, good for you, good for the planet! 😃 > > Stop signs are for people too stupid to understand the concept of “yield”. Frankly, _they_ don’t belong on the road. “Good” driving mean good decision making. You need to do it constantly. Reliance on strict rules doesn’t make you a “good driver”. Good decision making and vehicle control skills make you a good driver. > > And frankly, \*Fuck Off \*if you disagree. 🆒 Let’s ask all of our local police what they think about people rolling through stop lights and stop signs - they think they’ll give you a nice big ticket, complete with demerits! How about that? 😃 I don’t disagree with the argument that the one driving differently is the dangerous one in traffic, but the one driving differently shouldn’t be the sole person who is obeying the rules of the road. That’s dangerous for everyone, as others have pointed out, because you just can’t have everyone driving their own special way. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/19 "2008-10-23T23:02:18Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > There really is no reason why a driver should concentrate on stopping at an intersection with no other cars around Unfortunate choice of words, considering what **tdn** said in the post right before yours: > [@tdn](#): > > They are often so focused on the oncoming traffic that they fail to look at who might be in the crosswalk in front of them. I’ve nearly been run over a few times. It’s not just other cars that you should watch out for. A pedestrian or cyclist is usually harder to see than a car, and if you’re scanning an intersection for cars because you hope you’ll be able to cruise through it at speed instead of stopping, you might well not see the pedestrian or cyclist until it’s too late. Most people who pride themselves on their ability to drive safely without regarding things like traffic lights or stop signs are being **way** too optimistic about their competence level. Emergency rooms and graveyards are full of drivers (and the victims of drivers) who were blithely confident that what they were doing was perfectly safe. ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2008, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251/20 "2008-10-23T23:22:50Z")
> [@Interconnected\_Series\_of\_Tubes](#): > > Dear red light and stop sign right turner, > > You’re really pissing all of us behind you right off by stopping completely at the red light to make your turn (where perfectly safe.) I know you’re nestled up in your cocoon of smug, rule-abiding superiority. Please, you know, actually drive around for a while before inconveniencing all of us by failing to join the flow of traffic when expedient. Really, it’s okay - none of us will tell on you if you simply slow down, check to make sure it’s safe, and turn like a normal person. Will you also pay my ticket, when I get one for making a rolling-stop at a stop-sign or red-light? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-red-light-and-stop-sign-right-turner/469251.md?page=2)