# Dear Republicans: The debt ceiling? Again?! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 17, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190 "2012-05-17T08:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/201 "2012-05-19T01:24:45Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This is a distinction without difference. If the DHHS submits a budget request of $5 billion (or whatever) and Congress appropriates $3.9 billion, it’s hardly the DHHS’ fault if six months later it finds out it was only supposed to spend $3.2 billion. You were a public sector employee, so you know very well what costs are the first to be cut in the event of sudden cutbacks. All too well. You should look up what Virginia pays appointed defense lawyers, even when the budget is working. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/202 "2012-05-19T01:36:44Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > JOHN: I hid your wallet, you keep giving all the money to your friends. I refuse to allow you to get us into more debt by cutting our needs while you fritter money on unnecessary stuff, simply because they funded your campaign. We’re in debt up to our ears after you spend all that money on fixing the house and groceries and whatnot. We have to do something about this debt. I’m putting my foot down. You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the country was debt-free until that socialist Obama showed up in the white house and gave away tons of money to his campaign supporters. You also seem to be misinformed as to when the major financial crisis first hit the country - hint, it was before Obama was elected. He took over the presidency with a shit-ton of debt, and an economy that was in free-fall. The unemployment rate is now back to where it was before, and it’s trajectory is improving. The economy is also improving, after it was pretty much tanked by the previous administration. The debt is still a problem, because of the 8 years previous to Obama’s presidency, and the costs of the wars and the reduction in tax payments to the government. Bush’s tax cuts? Now THAT can be seen as giving money to people who funded Bush’s campaign. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/203 "2012-05-19T01:53:58Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > You seem to be laboring under the misapprehension that the country was debt-free until that socialist Obama showed up in the white house and gave away tons of money to his campaign supporters. > > [snip] > > The debt is still a problem, because of the 8 years previous to Obama’s presidency, and the costs of the wars and the reduction in tax payments to the government. Bush’s tax cuts? Now THAT can be seen as giving money to people who funded Bush’s campaign. Or, for the analytically challenged, [in graph form](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/CBPPpublicdebt.jpg). ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/204 "2012-05-19T01:57:00Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Or, for the analytically challenged, [in graph form](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/images/CBPPpublicdebt.jpg). Thank you! A picture is worth a thousand words they say… ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/205 "2012-05-19T02:53:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > No. > > The sentences you quote speak generically of public debt. But the sentence I quoted spoke _specifically_ of what constituted “debt.” It’s true that, standing alone, your quote raises some questions that might be resolved differently. But when you add to the mix the clear statement that debt arises from the exercise of Congress’ power to borrow, not Congress’ power to appropriate, then even the lines you quote no longer avail you. Let’s start with your abridged quote: [QUOTE=Bricker] The Debt Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment constrains Congress from refusing to pay “…obligations which the government has theretofore issued in the exercise of the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States.” (Quoting Perry v. US, 294 U.S. 330 (1935)). [/QUOTE] Now we’ll show the actual text that you cut that from: [QUOTE=Perry v. US] Congress cannot use its power to regulate the value of money so as to invalidate the obligations which the Government has theretofore issued in the exercise of the power to borrow money on the credit of the United States. [/QUOTE] Perhaps there is something else in the case (although I missed it upon reading, if so), but I don’t see anything in there that challenges a plain reading of the 14th. I agree that it does say “Congress can’t do X”, but nothing that I found seems to stop the court from saying “Congress can’t do Y either.” The case was about a very specific hack that Congress was trying to use in not paying Perry what he thought he was owed, thus that particular trick was what was discussed. I found no text in the case that in any way constrained an understanding of the 14th as narrowly as you think it does. Again, I don’t think it’s a clear and simple path, but I think a valid argument can be made. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/206 "2012-05-19T03:06:30Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Renal \<\> Rectal > > My wife is a kidney transplant patient. > …Just imagine what his head went up… painful I wish your wife the best of health. Moron. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/207 "2012-05-19T03:12:46Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > A picture is worth a thousand words they say… I don’t really understand this concept. Is there any way could show it in graph form? ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/208 "2012-05-19T03:16:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I give you points for being creative, but ultimately, your last, smaller, admission is the controlling one. S&P is not a constitutional actor, and they cannot create a constitutional duty for Congress to act. If S&P said that the Bush tax cuts would stimulate the economy, and threatened to lower our rating if Congress eliminated them… would Congress have a constitutional duty to accede? Concise and effective response. I think there’s a little more to my argument though. As I said, it’s hard to imagine the courts becoming entangled in this issue for practical reasons. But it’s in precisely these sorts of circumstances that a rhetorical appeal to the constitution is valid, both amongst the public and perhaps on the floor of one of the two chambers. Provided of course it’s acknowledged that law enforcement should only proceed on the basis of actual decisions by the judicial branch. Which I do. I don’t know what the definition of a constitutional actor is. But I do know that there’s a constitutional **mandate** \* for legislature to maintain the validity of the public debt above all question. Now that doesn’t imply any question – it implies _reasonable_ question. And I think it’s fair to say that the 2-3 professional credit agencies basically embody reasonable and professional questioning. If S&P embraces crank economics – well then that issue could be argued. If you find their justification questionable – well then argue that. But the downgrade by S&P is pretty strong (though not unassailable) evidence that the policies of the legislature have caused the validity of US debt to be questioned. > [@](#): > > In any event, “…shall not be questioned…” is a term of legal art. It means “cannot be challenged in court.” Accord Art I, Sec 6, regarding Congressmembers’ speech on the floor: “… and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.” > > You understand, I aussme, that doesn’t forbid me from asking Rep. Moran why he gave a speech supporting Obama last week? > > And it doesn’t forbid S&P from asking. And it doesn’t mean that Moran has a constitutional duty to shut up, lest I (or S&P) question him. > > Although I can dream… I’m going to interpret this last bit as a joke. If it’s not, it’s a ridiculous stretch. Let me quote Art I, Sec 6: The Senators and Representatives… shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place. “Questioned” in this context clearly means, “Questioned by the local constabulary”. There’s really no parallel to the language in the 14th amendment. All that said, the more relevant argument was in post #155 (with the thoughts of a former actor in this mess) and not post #154, which as I said touched upon a valid and reasonable rhetorical argument. The House has a constitutional mandate to maintain the full faith and credit of US debt. Where constitutional mandates that cannot be practically enforced by the courts, the responsibilities fall to the people. It’s a great burden, but with a heavy heart I must reluctantly call for John Boehner’s immediate resignation. I also extend to his Tea Partying supporters a simple request: obey the law. - Bolded for the sake of fact and table pounding, which is pretty much all rhetoricians can do. Can’t really pound the law. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/209 "2012-05-19T03:45:47Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > And I think it’s fair to say that the 2-3 professional credit agencies basically embody reasonable and professional questioning. If S&P embraces crank economics – well then that issue could be argued. If you find their justification questionable – well then argue that. But the downgrade by S&P is pretty strong (though not unassailable) evidence that the policies of the legislature have caused the validity of US debt to be questioned. Wasn’t S&P at least to some degree complicit in the conditions that led to the financial meltdowns? They _did_, after all, give unjustifiably rosy ratings to instruments that proved to be, well, let’s just call them less than gilt-edged. I’m not prepared to simply grant the professional credit rating agencies the standing as the arbiters of what constitutes “reasonable and professional questioning” _viv-a-vis_ the soundness of US debt. I may (or may not) base my personal decision on whether to buy US debt on what they tell me. But I will not accept that a downgrade of the credit rating in any way changes the obligation of the United States to honor the debts they _have_ sold to me. AIUI, the Amendment forbids the government from defaulting on its debt. It does not forbid anyone from expressing doubt on the question of whether the debt will be paid. And it does not burden the government with preventing people from doing so. IANAEconomistConstitutionalScholarLawyer. I AM, however, a Doper, and will gladly accept corrective instruction on any of the points I have made above. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/210 "2012-05-19T04:11:50Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Thank you! > > A picture is worth a thousand words they say… Yeah, if a thousand of them is all you got. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/211 "2012-05-19T09:47:46Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > [Huckabee Letter: Obama Surrounds Himself "With Morally Repugnant Political Whores"](http://www.buzzfeed.com/zekejmiller/mike-huckabee-obama-surrounds-himself-with-moral) > > [Fox's Dana Perino: California Gov. Jerry Brown Is A Dictator Because He Made A Youtube](http://wonkette.com/472621/foxs-dana-perino-california-gov-jerry-brown-is-a-dictator-because-he-made-a-youtube#more-472621) Thank you for your response. Of course, when I asked you for example I had a strong feeling that your “they are the enemy” attitude has been around for a long time. A few minutes of Googling (seems to have) born that out. Here is a quote apparently from Tip O’Neill about Ronald Reagan: > [@](#): > > The evil is in the White House at the present time. And that evil is a man who has no care and no concern for the working class of America and the future generations of America, and who likes to ride a horse. He’s cold. He’s mean. He’s got ice water for blood. And a democratic Congressman apparently stated that Reagan was “trying to replace the Bill of Rights with fascist precepts lifted verbatim from Mein Kampf” At least according to [this article](http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/257351/chris-matthews-memory-problem-jonah-goldberg#) ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/212 "2012-05-19T09:52:33Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Yes. As smart as the anti-war measure may or may not have been, the full faith and credit of the nation was not something to play off of. Ok, then perhaps you are not a partisan hack. > [@](#): > > However, this is assuming that the two cases were equivalent. Of course they are. Your objection is to using the debt ceiling as a political bargaining chip, right? > [@](#): > > Shame that that was over 40 years ago, and that things have changed dramatically since then. How exactly have things changed? > [@](#): > > After getting about half of what they wanted. That’s a very common outcome in negotiations – each side getting about half of what they want. > [@](#): > > The republicans didn’t want to “kill the hostage” either way! Just like the democrats didn’t want to “kill the hostage.” That’s how the game of chicken works. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/213 "2012-05-19T10:59:52Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > Um, you do realize he copied George W Bush with another fail Giftulus, right? Again: what’s the BBQ for his friend and the handouts? Your analogy still doesn’t make a whit of sense. Please, be specific. > [@brazil84](#): > > Ok, then perhaps you are not a partisan hack. I’ll be perfectly honest – I _hate_ the republican party. I despise what most republicans nowadays stand for. I abhor their extremist anti-science bend. I hate how they turn the rights of minorities into wedge issues. I hate the way they subscribe damn near religious importance to economic policies which _fail miserably_. I think this country would be considerably better off if we kicked Arizona, Georgia, Mississippi, and Alabama (and _maybe_ Texas) out of the Union. The republican party stands in opposition to me on almost every issue, and in many cases, I’m indisputably on the right side (creationism/ID or Birtherism, for example). I spend a lot of time watching people I care about suffer because of things the republican party supports. But I’m not above criticizing my own team. I’m not about to say “well, this is only wrong if this party does it”. That would be fucking stupid. I hate the republicans because their policies are destructive and selfish – were they to change their tune and actually start following reasonable policy, then I’d cut the hate. > [@](#): > > Of course they are. Your objection is to using the debt ceiling as a political bargaining chip, right? There are several variables that can be changed around the main issue, but I suppose you are correct. > [@](#): > > How exactly have things changed? …The Democrats haven’t been doing that? > [@](#): > > That’s a very common outcome in negotiations – each side getting about half of what they want. If I say “I want a helicopter and $10,000,000 or I will kill your wife” and I decide after getting the chopper that the $10,000,000 in cash isn’t something you can reasonably produce fast enough, me leaving with the chopper isn’t “each side getting about half of what they want”. That’s “I got as much as I reasonably could from the other side”. I’m sick to death of hearing people refer to the debt ceiling debates as “negotiations”, when they are in fact nothing of the sort. > [@](#): > > Just like the democrats didn’t want to “kill the hostage.” That’s how the game of chicken works. …The democrats didn’t _have_ a hostage. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/214 "2012-05-19T11:05:57Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > …The Democrats haven’t been doing that? You are confident the Democrats haven’t used the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip in the last 10 years? > [@](#): > > If I say “I want a helicopter and $10,000,000 or I will kill your wife” and I decide after getting the chopper that the $10,000,000 in cash isn’t something you can reasonably produce fast enough, me leaving with the chopper isn’t “each side getting about half of what they want”. That’s “I got as much as I reasonably could from the other side”. I agree, but I don’t think your analogy is apt. > [@](#): > > I’m sick to death of hearing people refer to the debt ceiling debates as “negotiations”, when they are in fact nothing of the sort. How is it that they are not? > [@](#): > > …The democrats didn’t _have_ a hostage. Of course they did – the same hostage as the republicans. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/215 "2012-05-19T11:26:49Z")
> [@Darth Panda](#): > > Is there any way could show it in graph form? [Here](http://i.imgur.com/qP1bB.png) you are. Though there is some argument that it’s an interval scale and Fox News is worth -10000 words. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/216 "2012-05-19T11:27:21Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > You are confident the Democrats haven’t used the debt ceiling as a bargaining chip in the last 10 years? Fairly certain. Feel free to correct me. Either way, though, why does it matter? > [@](#): > > How is it that they are not? The minority party is essentially saying “Do what we want or we will destroy this country’s credit rating”. That’s not a negotiation, that’s a hostage situation. Of course they did – the same hostage as the republicans. [/QUOTE] The democrats were saying “We’re not going to raise the debt ceiling unless we get X, Y, and Z”? News to me. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/217 "2012-05-19T12:04:47Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’ll be perfectly honest – I _hate_ the republican party. I despise what most republicans nowadays stand for. I abhor their extremist anti-science bend. I hate how they turn the rights of minorities into wedge issues. I hate the way they subscribe damn near religious importance to economic policies which _fail miserably_. I think this country would be considerably better off if we kicked Arizona, Georgia, Mississippi, and Alabama (and _maybe_ Texas) out of the Union. The republican party stands in opposition to me on almost every issue, and in many cases, I’m indisputably on the right side (creationism/ID or Birtherism, for example). I spend a lot of time watching people I care about suffer because of things the republican party supports. But I’m not above criticizing my own team. I’m not about to say “well, this is only wrong if this party does it”. That would be fucking stupid. I hate the republicans because their policies are destructive and selfish – were they to change their tune and actually start following reasonable policy, then I’d cut the hate. Great paragraph. My ideals and priorities tend to align with the Democratic platform. Basics things like spending on social safety nets. I’m not, though, overly enthusiastic about them as a party. They are not my “team.” I am not averse to many aspects of the Republican platform. While I think social spending and investments in education are important, I do not believe in rampant, unchecked spending. The Republican _party_, however, inspires a deep-seated reaction of utter repugnance. I had actually been a registered Republican up through the mid-Gingrich years. I do not know whether it was his changing of the conversation, the rise of talk radio’s insipid influence, or just a broader awareness. Whatever it was, the end result is the same: nothing but disdain for their denial of basic science, their logic defying rhetoric, and their unholy unified adherence to party over country. The tactics they use and the values they hold are antithetical to the flag they so often wrap themselves up in. That holding the Republican party in such contempt for clearly and easily articulable reasons is considered partisanship–such that such criticisms are ignored–demonstrates a pitiful dearth of critical reasoning skills. **BPC** said all this much better. ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/218 "2012-05-19T12:18:53Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > [Here](http://i.imgur.com/qP1bB.png) you are. Though there is some argument that it’s an interval scale and Fox News is worth -10000 words. Aha! So the Jews faked the moon landing and then pinned Elvis’s murder on Apollo Creed. It all makes sense now… ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/219 "2012-05-19T17:33:01Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > You don’t know what the debt limit is, do you… Apparently, you don’t. > [@](#): > > What is the Debt Limit? > > The federal government can borrow money to pay its bills, just like taking out a loan. The debt limit is the maximum amount that Congress allows the government to borrow, similar to the credit limit on a credit card. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2012, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/220 "2012-05-19T17:43:49Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Apparently, you don’t. The debt limit does nothing to limit spending. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190.md?page=12)