# Dear Republicans: The debt ceiling? Again?! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 17, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190 "2012-05-17T08:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/61 "2012-05-17T15:58:42Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > We are founded on a 2-party system > [@John\_Mace](#): > > A commonly believed myth. Our system of government pretty much guarantees a two party outcome, but many of the founders abhorred the idea of political parties. Plus, there is nothing in the constitution about political parties. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/62 "2012-05-17T16:00:34Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Ok, so what happens to american society if the “current government system” collapses? What would American society be without a governmental system? It would build a new governmental system. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/63 "2012-05-17T16:03:01Z")
Overnight? What happens between the collapse and then? We need details please. You are advocating the collapse of the American government. If you want us to take you seriously we need some evidence of serious thought on this matter. Or should we take it on faith? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/64 "2012-05-17T16:03:04Z")
> [@brazil84](#): > > Can you give me a few examples which illustrate this “they are the enemy” attitude you decry? Here’s [your nominee for the US Senate from Indiana:](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/post/richard-mourdock-and-the-gops-idea-of-bipartisanship/2012/05/09/gIQAoaQ8CU_blog.html) > [@](#): > > MOURDOCK: I certainly think bipartisanship ought to consist of Democrats coming to the Republican point of view. … If we [win the House, Senate, and White House], bipartisanship means they have to come our way, and if we’re successful in getting the numbers, we’ll work towards that. Or just rewind the last 3 years- Republicans decided on Inauguration Day to oppose everything that Obama proposed. Sometimes they wound up filibustering their own proposals just because Obama agreed with them. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/65 "2012-05-17T16:08:00Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Overnight? What happens between the collapse and then? Obviously not overnight. > [@](#): > > We need details please. You are advocating the collapse of the American government. Federal government system, as it exists today, definitely. “Advocating”? Not really. Anticipating and hoping something better rises from it? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/66 "2012-05-17T16:08:21Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It would build a new governmental system. Typical of the magical thinking that infuses your type. A collapse of our economy would involve millions of elderly losing their ability to pay rent, millions of medicare recipients having no access to medical care, tens of millions of children without school, millions of soldiers and government workers suddenly unemployed. There would be no controls on water, air or the environment. There would be no law, no defense, no safety. It would lead to anarchy and it would take decades to come out of. It isn’t something to wish for, it’s something to be warded off. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/67 "2012-05-17T16:10:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > The right thing to do is not to dicker around with the system as it is, since it is hopelessly screwed up. We’re way past the inflection point. The right thing to do is to abolish the system and rebuild it right from scratch. The only way to do that (if we’re very lucky and things fall right) is after a full collapse of the current system. Thus the worse it is, the better it is. Maybe. > > Of course, the collapse may result in something much worse than it is now. But then doing nothing will probably get us to the same point, just a bit slower. The fish rots from the head, eh? No, I’m afraid I can’t agree. I can support a brief cut in so-called non-essential service, because I believe that it will cause the recipients thereof to realize that most of them were more essential than they thought. But I cannot countenance any plan in which the goal is the destruction of the system. I think there are many flaws in our system. So does **BPC** , I feel sure. And he and I undoubtedly disagree on the flaws – many of the things I like, he sees as flaws; many of the things I like, he sees as flaws. But that’s because we’re not ants. We’re not bees. We do not have a monolithic view of what works and what’s best. Instead, we have a system that allows us to bring multiple ideas to the table, advocate for them, and convince others of the correctness of our positions. The fact that we have many flaws (from my point of view) is not a bug: it’s a feature. It says that we have a system that reflects the joint sovereignty of all of us. I’m still right, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/68 "2012-05-17T16:13:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Obviously not overnight. > Federal government system, as it exists today, definitely. > > “Advocating”? Not really. Anticipating and hoping something better rises from it? Yes. So, yeah, just cross our fingers and hope it all works out huh? Wow. I’m really glad you are not at all in charge of anything related to me or my life whatsoever. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/69 "2012-05-17T16:14:27Z")
Something tells me Terr has [Fernando](http://youtu.be/dQsjAbZDx-4)on permanent loop on his iPod. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/70 "2012-05-17T16:19:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It would build a new governmental system. Holy shit, you’re a barely functioning Turing bot. An [XKCD](http://xkcd.com/810/)experiment gone horribly, horribly wrong. I guess you have the individual words defined somewhere in your database and your network links the concepts, or maybe you’re an amazingly simplistic partisan hack with thinking skills that are sub-freeper. There are people out there that would advocate major reforms to the governmental system. Removing the electoral college. Moving towards proportional representation. All sorts of things. But damn, you’re just a fucking idiot. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/71 "2012-05-17T16:19:42Z")
So, only the Republicans get to vote on the budget? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/72 "2012-05-17T16:21:50Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > So, only the Republicans get to vote on the budget? I’m not a hundred percent sure you understand what is going on here. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/73 "2012-05-17T16:23:32Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > So, only the Republicans get to vote on the budget? Essentially. They control the House and can use the filibuster to stymie whatever the Democrats in the Senate want to do. They vote as a block. Either give in to their blackmail or we all pay the consequence. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/74 "2012-05-17T16:26:56Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I think there are many flaws in our system. At some point the system becomes so flawed it is not repairable. > [@](#): > > Instead, we have a system that allows us to bring multiple ideas to the table, advocate for them, and convince others of the correctness of our positions. Correction - it was designed this way - with 50 (today) laboratories in which the multiple ideas would be tried, tested, and, if successful, incorporated in other places. That has been completely perverted, and the system is rolling faster and faster downhill towards monolithic autocratic federal government with no checks on it whatsoever. > [@](#): > > It says that we have a system that reflects the joint sovereignty of all of us. “Joint sovereignty” is an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/75 "2012-05-17T16:32:56Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Essentially. They control the House and can use the filibuster to stymie whatever the Democrats in the Senate want to do. They vote as a block. Either give in to their blackmail or we all pay the consequence. S Con Res 41 was defeated 0-99 S Con Res 37 was defeated 42-57 S Con Res 42 was defeated 16-83 S Con Res 44 was defeated 17-82 All were Budget Resolutions. This isnt just a Republican Smack down. Just some of the nay voters kaka (D-HI), Nay Baucus (D-MT), Nay Begich (D-AK), Nay Bennet (D-CO), Nay Bingaman (D-NM), Nay Blumenthal (D-CT), Nay Boxer (D-CA), Nay Brown (D-OH), Nay Cantwell (D-WA), Nay Cardin (D-MD), Nay Carper (D-DE), Nay Casey (D-PA), Nay ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/76 "2012-05-17T16:35:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > …it was designed this way - with 50 (today) laboratories in which the multiple ideas would be tried, tested, and, if successful, incorporated in other places. > > \ > > “Joint sovereignty” is an oxymoron. And the Cognitive Dissonance in Action Award goes to… **Terr**! [QUOTE=dngnb8] S Con Res 41 was defeated 0-99 S Con Res 37 was defeated 42-57 S Con Res 42 was defeated 16-83 S Con Res 44 was defeated 17-82 All were Budget Resolutions. This isnt just a Republican Smack down. [/QUOTE] Psst… the “S” stands for “Senate”. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/77 "2012-05-17T16:36:57Z")
I too support the collapse of the government. We’ll all move into the Colorado mountains, meet John Galt, see the appeal of property rights, eugenics and a hierarchical system and live in complete comfort with nil taxation or inflation for the rest of our life. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/78 "2012-05-17T16:37:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That has been completely perverted, and the system is rolling faster and faster downhill towards monolithic autocratic federal government with no checks on it whatsoever. > [@Terr](#): > > “Joint sovereignty” is an oxymoron. I’d say these two statements reflect a less-than-perfect understanding of the concept of federalism. Setting aside the joint sovereignty shared by all members of the electorate for a moment, our system is precisely described by joint sovereignty: the federal government is supremely sovereign in its bailiwick, and the states have plenary power and sovereignty over themselves. And “We the People” is not nonsense, either. The votes of the people elect representatives empowered to make law. You may not like the results. But the system is the second-best way to govern. The best is my acclaimation as King Bricker I. But since there seems to be some foolish belief that I will not rule well, the second-best system must be accepted. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/79 "2012-05-17T16:39:04Z")
> [@dngnb8](#): > > S Con Res 41 was defeated 0-99 > > S Con Res 37 was defeated 42-57 > > S Con Res 42 was defeated 16-83 > > S Con Res 44 was defeated 17-82 > > All were Budget Resolutions. This isnt just a Republican Smack down. > Just some of the nay voters > > kaka (D-HI), Nay > Baucus (D-MT), Nay > Begich (D-AK), Nay > Bennet (D-CO), Nay > Bingaman (D-NM), Nay > Blumenthal (D-CT), Nay > Boxer (D-CA), Nay > Brown (D-OH), Nay > Cantwell (D-WA), Nay > Cardin (D-MD), Nay > Carper (D-DE), Nay > Casey (D-PA), Nay If you have vote totals, they weren’t filibustered. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/80 "2012-05-17T16:41:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > And the Cognitive Dissonance in Action Award goes to… **Terr**! > > Psst… the “S” stands for “Senate”. Yes I realize that. Meant senate Still doesnt change the fact that it isnt just republicans. One of the proposals didnt get 1 yae vote. If I was a Democrat, I would be more concerned with zero partisan support then opposite the wall fillibuster [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190.md?page=5)