# Dear Republicans: The debt ceiling? Again?! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?!? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 17, 2012, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190 "2012-05-17T08:12:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/101 "2012-05-17T17:55:43Z")
Only people without any understanding of the issues think both sides are equal. Do both sides do bad things, yes. But one side does so many more bad things that it is to laugh in the face of reality to equate them. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/102 "2012-05-17T17:58:13Z")
Well, if you read the article, your ‘feeling’ is not supported by the facts. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/103 "2012-05-17T18:16:29Z")
> [@Truman\_Burbank](#): > > ( In response to DNGNB8) > I was arguing that the GOP has moved, perhaps irretrievably, past the point of ‘loyal opposition’. I don’t agree witrh this. During the prior administration’s years, there were very strongly worded condemnations of President Bush from Democratic leaders. Note, for the sharp-eyed, why this is NOT a tu quoque. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/104 "2012-05-17T18:19:19Z")
> [@Enlightening\_Meditation](#): > > Boehner announced that he expects to have a deal with Bush era income tax rates extended before the November elections, but I would be surprised if that happened. Boehner must be afraid of the GOP losing the House if he insists on the debt ceiling vote to be completed before November. So in reality, this is not about reducing the country’s debt at all. It’s about threatening default in order to maintain low tax rates for the upper brackets. Sickening. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/105 "2012-05-17T18:20:06Z")
> [@Enlightening\_Meditation](#): > > **The problems again will be that Democrats will refuse to make serious budget cuts without raising taxes,** Republicans will refuse to raise taxes but demand spending cuts greater than the amount of ceiling increase. Once again, there will be abundant finger pointing and blaming the other side. **Once again, the Simpson-Bowles committee recommendations (both tax hikes and spending cuts) will be largely ignored.** …Cognitive dissonance much? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/106 "2012-05-17T18:24:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree witrh this. During the prior administration’s years, there were very strongly worded condemnations of President Bush from Democratic leaders. > > Note, for the sharp-eyed, why this is NOT a tu quoque. That article talks about more than just strongly worded condemnations though. Refusal to compromise on anything for example. Also true for the Democrats during the Bush years? I think not. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/107 "2012-05-17T18:30:53Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I don’t agree witrh this. During the prior administration’s years, there were very strongly worded condemnations of President Bush from Democratic leaders. > > Note, for the sharp-eyed, why this is NOT a tu quoque. There were certainly those that called Bush names, especially after he spearheaded an invasion into a country that didn’t attack the US, in retaliation for a bunch of guys from a 3rd country who were hiding in a 4th. Was there anything from a Democratic senator or Congressman that rose to the following level? “I don’t know whether Barack Obama was born in the United States of America. I don’t know that. But I do know this, that in his heart, he’s not an American. He’s just not an American,” - Congressman Mike Coffman (R-CO) Did a Democratic representative ever shout “You Lie!” to President Bush when he addressed a joint session of Congress? Anything close to that? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/108 "2012-05-17T18:31:11Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It would lead to anarchy and it would take decades to come out of. It isn’t something to wish for, it’s something to be warded off. Not if you have been hoarding bullets. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/109 "2012-05-17T18:40:15Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > There were certainly those that called Bush names, especially after he spearheaded an invasion into a country that didn’t attack the US, in retaliation for a bunch of guys from a 3rd country who were hiding in a 4th. > > Was there anything from a Democratic senator or Congressman that rose to the following level? > > “I don’t know whether Barack Obama was born in the United States of America. I don’t know that. But I do know this, that in his heart, he’s not an American. He’s just not an American,” - Congressman Mike Coffman (R-CO) Congressman Peter Stark during Bush presidency claimed that US soldiers were sent to Iraq “to get their heads blown off for the president’s amusement.” Do you think that rose (well, dove, really) to the same level? ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/110 "2012-05-17T18:46:48Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > There were certainly those that called Bush names, especially after he spearheaded an invasion into a country that didn’t attack the US, in retaliation for a bunch of guys from a 3rd country who were hiding in a 4th. > > Was there anything from a Democratic senator or Congressman that rose to the following level? > > “I don’t know whether Barack Obama was born in the United States of America. I don’t know that. But I do know this, that in his heart, he’s not an American. He’s just not an American,” - Congressman Mike Coffman (R-CO) > > Did a Democratic representative ever shout “You Lie!” to President Bush when he addressed a joint session of Congress? Anything close to that? Maxine Waters: The president is a liar. Dick Cheney, the chief architect of the Big Lie, is not only a liar, he is a thief. Democrats in the chamber boo’ed President Bush during the 2005 State of the Union Address. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/111 "2012-05-17T18:52:34Z")
Yup, and so does Mr. Stark, who broke down sobbing in the House Chamber after apologizing for saying it: [Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Videos](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304304,00.html) By contrast, here is Mr Coffman’s apology: > [@](#): > > “I apologize. I have confidence in President Obama’s citizenship and legitimacy as President of the United States,” said Coffman in an e-mail. “However, I don’t believe the President shares my belief in American Exceptionalism. His policies reflect a philosophy that America is but one nation among many equals.” And yeah, Maxine Waters is a loon as well. I just can’t wait until this new level of obstruction blows up in the GOP’s face when the Bush Tax Cuts are up for renewal at the end of the year. Without the votes to override a Democratic fillibuster I can only hope that they get major, MAJOR, concessions while holding that baby hostage. Doubly so if Romney gets elected and the economic fallout is on his head. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/112 "2012-05-17T18:53:49Z")
Why does everyone seem to think that article was only about people saying stuff? What about the actions part? Is anyone willing to argue that the Democrats during Bush’s term were just as unwilling to compromise on anything as the current Republicans? Is anyone willing to provide one example of something that the Democrats originally proposed, but then lockstep voted against just because Bush was then proposing it? Why are we only talking about who said what. The article is clearly about much more than just saying bad stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/113 "2012-05-17T18:55:54Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Yup, and so does Mr. Stark, who broke down sobbing in the House Chamber after apologizing for saying it: [Fox News - Breaking News Updates | Latest News Headlines | Photos & News Videos](http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,304304,00.html) After the vote on censure by the House. But before that vote, here was his reaction: “With demands from House Republicans to apologize, Stark then said he neither respects “the commander-in-chief who keeps (the troops) in harm’s way nor the chicken hawks in Congress.”” ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/114 "2012-05-17T18:56:13Z")
In case someone wonders why I posted Coffman’s apology, it’s because somehow he managed to turn his apology for one lie into a repeat of [another lie](http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2011/01/31/obama-has-mentioned-american-exceptionalism-more-than-bush) - a rare trick indeed ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/115 "2012-05-17T18:58:12Z")
Suppose the GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling, and Obama says, fuck that shit, it’s unconstitutional, I’m going to tell the Treasury to act as if there is no ceiling. What happens next? Is Congress going to ask the courts to rule against the President, and if so, would the courts step in, or would they advise Congress that they prefer to stay out of disputes between Congress and the Executive? Would the House try to impeach Obama, if it’s still under Republican control at the time? ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/116 "2012-05-17T18:58:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > After the vote on censure by the House. But before that vote, here was his reaction: > > “With demands from House Republicans to apologize, Stark then said he neither respects “the commander-in-chief who keeps (the troops) in harm’s way nor the chicken hawks in Congress.”” I don’t really have a problem with that quote - certainly not in the same ballpark as claiming Bush enjoyed getting young men killed or that Obama isn’t an American at heart. Also the vote for censure failed. He apologized anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/117 "2012-05-17T19:28:07Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Suppose the GOP refuses to raise the debt ceiling, and Obama says, fuck that shit, it’s unconstitutional, I’m going to tell the Treasury to act as if there is no ceiling. > > What happens next? Is Congress going to ask the courts to rule against the President, and if so, would the courts step in, or would they advise Congress that they prefer to stay out of disputes between Congress and the Executive? Would the House try to impeach Obama, if it’s still under Republican control at the time? I would imagine the courts would step in. This is not a political question. The Supreme Court has already said very plainly that “debt” in the Fourteenth Amendment refers to Congress’ exercise of the credit of the United States, not its spending power. I would further expect that if the President did not heed to order of the courts, the House would impeach him. But of course Mr. Obama would not do such a thing, because, as a lawyer himself, he understands that only Congress may raise the debt ceiling, and he cannot act to incur additionla debt on behalf of the United States without their action. ---
**Author:** ![dngnb8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/977dab/32.png) [@dngnb8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dngnb8)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/118 "2012-05-17T19:59:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Bullshit. Did Bush ever have problems getting debt ceilings raised? Did the Democrats ever hold anything hostage? Did Democrats ever pledge to oppose everything Bush favored? Did Senate Democrats ever filibuster everything? Is that the only thing they vote on? I believe votes have passed without filibuster. Additionally, if you check the recent budget vote of 0-99. you will see Obama couldnt even get 1 vote from his side. Hardly a Republican Stonewall issue > [@Airbeck](#): > > Are you contending that the Democrats refused to compromise with Bush on anything, the way the Republicans have been with Obama? Because you are flat out wrong. The Democrats pretty much bent all the way over for the Republicans during Bush’s term. I mean what didn’t they compromise on? Can you name anything? Can you name anything that the Democrats had previously proposed, but then voted against just because Bush was the one now proposing it? > > There is zero equivalence here. This board amuses me. Im saying partisan hackery is not new. The worse Reps can make it, the better chance Romney wins. Just like Dems did in Bushs last year. See below from Briker. > [@Bricker](#): > > Maxine Waters: The president is a liar. Dick Cheney, the chief architect of the Big Lie, is not only a liar, he is a thief. > > Democrats in the chamber boo’ed President Bush during the 2005 State of the Union Address. the problem with many on this board is they dont mind politics as usual when it benefits them, but your rears pucker when it works against you. Ah, to be a purveyor of kool aid this time of year… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/119 "2012-05-17T20:05:47Z")
Imagine how life for Dngnb8 goes. “What to eat?” he thinks. But it doesn’t matter, all foods are the same, so he chews up the contents of an ashtray at the DMV. Yum. What to wear? All clothes are the same. So he dresses in a garbage bag with decorative duct-tape trim. How to get to work? No reason to drive or take the bus, since dragging himself there while lying on a skateboard is just as good. How to wipe his ass? More duct tape. Just as good as TP, don’tcha know? Reasoning requires the ability to compare things. If you are so mentally lazy that everything is the same to you, you aren’t thinking. You’re just declaring that you’re above the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [May 17, 2012, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190/120 "2012-05-17T20:12:01Z")
We are $15+ trillion dollars in debt. How in the hell can one call it posturing or grandstanding if people in Congress finally wise up and say, “Ya know - taking on more debt right now is a really, really stupid thing to do”? We should all be saying, “About damn time!!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-the-debt-ceiling-again-what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-you/622190.md?page=7)