# Dear Republicans: This Is Not How Democracy Works! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625 "2011-12-09T15:30:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/1 "2011-12-09T15:30:41Z")
> **[Republicans Aren't Filibustering Obama's Consumer Protection Nominee. They're...](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2011/12/richard-cordray-consumer-financial-president-bureau-will-the-gop-filibuster-obamas-nominees-out-of-existence.html)** > > Richard Cordray was the safe choice to run the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. The Ohio Democrat didn’t clash with bankers over TARP oversight,... Look, call me crazy, but wasn’t the CFPB created: 1. As a response to a financial disaster and overall disgust of the general public 2. _With public mandate_. This wasn’t some disasterous plea deal. This was something that a majority of the members of congress decided on, and as far as I can tell, something a lot of the American public is quite happy about. And yet, the republican minority in the Senate, which should have no right whatsoever to say “no, this agency cannot exist” is able to essentially nullify its existence by demanding a 60% majority. And look closely; it’s not about the candidate. They’re going to object to _any_ candidate leading that department, just so that the department can’t get anything done. Look, I don’t _care_ how bad this Bureau is. This is _not_ how democracy is supposed to work. The democrats should not need a 60% majority to create an appointee. The Republicans know that they don’t have the will of the people backing them on this issue, they’re not using the correct channels, but they’re doing it anyways, because the will of the people be damned, banks pay the bills. I’m sorry, but this whole situation is sickening. The Filibuster is broken in half in the political arena, and abusing it has become an incredibly popular tool in order to essentially demand that the other side has a massive supermajority to be able to do _anything_. We saw this with health care reform, we saw this with the supreme court, and now we’re seeing it here. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/2 "2011-12-09T15:48:54Z")
Well, as the New York Times said back in 1995, the filibuster is derailing Clinton’s agenda, and needs to be curtailed. Of course, they said in 2005 that the filibuster’s existence goes to the center of the peculiar but effective form of government America cherishes when Senate Democrats were using it against Bush’s agenda. And they said just last month we should end the filibuster. So let’s just cut to the chase. I don’t wish to put words in the OP’s mouth, but it seems clear that the actual rule favored by the New York Times is: When the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, the Senate shall have a filibuster rule; when the Democrats have the majority, no filibuster rule should exist. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/3 "2011-12-09T15:54:38Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So let’s just cut to the chase. I don’t wish to put words in the OP’s mouth, but it seems clear that the actual rule favored by the New York Times is: When the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, the Senate shall have a filibuster rule; when the Democrats have the majority, no filibuster rule should exist. there is a certain appeal to that solution. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/4 "2011-12-09T15:58:31Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, as the New York Times said back in 1995, the filibuster is derailing Clinton’s agenda, and needs to be curtailed. > > Of course, they said in 2005 that the filibuster’s existence goes to the center of the peculiar but effective form of government America cherishes when Senate Democrats were using it against Bush’s agenda. > > And they said just last month we should end the filibuster. > > So let’s just cut to the chase. I don’t wish to put words in the OP’s mouth, but it seems clear that the actual rule favored by the New York Times is: When the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, the Senate shall have a filibuster rule; when the Democrats have the majority, no filibuster rule should exist. I wonder if there’s a side-by-side list of the things filibustered under Bush and the things filibustered under Clinton and Obama. :rolleyes: Because I don’t think there’s any reasonable comparison. But what’s more, you have to agree that this is an unreasonable abuse of their power. The agency has, by popular demand, been given the right to exist. A minority group from within the government _should not_ have the authority to shut it down like this. It’s simply a power they aren’t supposed to have. ---
**Author:** ![Raygun99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Raygun99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raygun99)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/5 "2011-12-09T16:03:49Z")
I must admit to some confusion about how a potential charge of hypocrisy against the New York Times answers the OP, who neither mentioned nor linked to them. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/6 "2011-12-09T16:03:56Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Look, call me crazy … Okay. You’re crazy. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Look, I don’t _care_ how bad this Bureau is. This is _not_ how democracy is supposed to work. The democrats should not need a 60% majority to create an appointee. The Republicans know that they don’t have the will of the people backing them on this issue, they’re not using the correct channels, but they’re doing it anyways, because the will of the people be damned, banks pay the bills. Tsk, tsk. Tyranny of the majority, and all that. I’ve noticed that the left has no scruples about running roughshod over the majority whenever they want something the majority doesn’t want. They just declare whatever they want to be a right, and use that as an excuse to override the principle of majority rule. I trust you’ll pardon me if I just don’t care. And anyway, I’m skeptical that there was overwhelming popular support for it, anyway. Probably most folks never even heard of it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/7 "2011-12-09T16:07:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > So let’s just cut to the chase. I don’t wish to put words in the OP’s mouth, but it seems clear that the actual rule favored by the New York Times is: When the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, the Senate shall have a filibuster rule; when the Democrats have the majority, no filibuster rule should exist. Ah, the “neener neener, the Democrats did it too” defense. Tell me, i_n this particular case cited by the OP_, should the Republicans be allowed to shut down the agency using this particular method? Not CAN they, but SHOULD they? Is this an appropriate use of the rules. Don’t tell me who did what sometime in the past. Answer the question for THIS particular case. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/8 "2011-12-09T16:15:56Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ah, the “neener neener, the Democrats did it too” defense. > > Tell me, i_n this particular case cited by the OP_, should the Republicans be allowed to shut down the agency using this particular method? Not CAN they, but SHOULD they? Is this an appropriate use of the rules. > > Don’t tell me who did what sometime in the past. Answer the question for THIS particular case. As the Dems have repeatedly used the filibuster themselves, and it is very plain that they have no problem with nullifying majority rule when it suits they’re political convenience, there is no need to take them seriously when they appeal to the principle of majority rule to invalidate a Republican filibuster. That applies in this case. ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/9 "2011-12-09T16:23:13Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, as the New York Times said back in 1995, the filibuster is derailing Clinton’s agenda, and needs to be curtailed. > > Of course, they said in 2005 that the filibuster’s existence goes to the center of the peculiar but effective form of government America cherishes when Senate Democrats were using it against Bush’s agenda. > > And they said just last month we should end the filibuster. > > So let’s just cut to the chase. I don’t wish to put words in the OP’s mouth, but it seems clear that the actual rule favored by the New York Times is: When the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, the Senate shall have a filibuster rule; when the Democrats have the majority, no filibuster rule should exist. And of course it doesn’t matter at all how often that filibuster is used? I don’t think so. There are roughly twice as many GOP filibusters as there were Democrat filibusters. When a process that was intended to be the exception suddenly becomes the default, the process is not working. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/10 "2011-12-09T16:38:06Z")
And that doesn’t even include actions which never arrived to be voted upon, because of the _threat_ of a fillibuster! But, for the sake of efficiency, I propose we create a “Everybody come see the liberal hypocrisy!” smilie. Save friend \*\*Bricker \*\*a lot of typing. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/11 "2011-12-09T16:53:35Z")
While I agree with the OP to a degree, I can’t help wondering how many filibusters is too many. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/12 "2011-12-09T16:54:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > But, for the sake of efficiency, I propose we create a “Everybody come see the liberal hypocrisy!” smilie. Save friend \*\*Bricker \*\*a lot of typing. +1 …and also propose a “Republicans/Conservatives/Religious/Tea Partiers are teh evil and want to destroy/rape/kill/lynch/steal/evict from the country/disenfranchise all brown skinned /African American/poor/LGBT/atheistic people” With a little effort, we can reduce this board to a series of smillies and fit the archiving of its sum to one 3.5 floppy disk. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/13 "2011-12-09T16:56:13Z")
This is an exceptionally egregious abuse of the filibuster, however. Republicans are not objecting to Cordray’s qualifications, or his ethics, or any other issue related to his fitness for public service. Republicans are trying to accomplish through the filibuster what they could not accomplish through legislation, which is to limit regulation of the financial industry. For that reason alone I think there should be different rules for Republicans than there are for Democrats. The GOP has demonstrated they lack the maturity to govern, so they should be sanctioned when ever possible and by what ever means necessary. It is time for Obama to start punishing districts that elect Republicans who will not negotiate in good faith; he needs to get all LBJ on their asses. Threaten their local appropriations, take whatever executive actions are availble to him to make life difficult in Republican districts. Veto military procurement programs, water projects, and other spending in red districts. Until it is painful to be a conservative, they will continue to act like children. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/14 "2011-12-09T17:03:30Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > As the Dems have repeatedly used the filibuster themselves, and it is very plain that they have no problem with nullifying majority rule when it suits they’re political convenience, there is no need to take them seriously when they appeal to the principle of majority rule to invalidate a Republican filibuster. That applies in this case. The GOP has abused the filibuster to a _far_ greater degree in terms of number of incidents and sheer obstreperousness than the Democrats have, especially in terms of things like blocking appointments, many of which are essentially non-partisan. The Democrats also have never used to filibuster for the baldly stated purpose of making the president look bad, blocking anything and everything including bills and resolutions co-sponsored by members of their own party. The GOP have. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/15 "2011-12-09T17:04:39Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Tsk, tsk. Tyranny of the majority, and all that. Which applies in the case in which someone’s rights are being infringed. Newsflash: this is not applicable to every political decision. Or do you think that the legality of the jewish religion is “Tyranny of the majority” against the Nazis in the country? > [@](#): > > I’ve noticed that the left has no scruples about running roughshod over the majority whenever they want something the majority doesn’t want. > > They just declare whatever they want to be a right, and use that as an excuse to override the principle of majority rule. I trust you’ll pardon me if I just don’t care. I’m going to assume you mean the supreme court… You mean when it comes to laws that are, according to the constitution, _fucking illegal_? Also, I kinda wanna look up the political affiliations of the individual judges… > [@](#): > > And anyway, I’m skeptical that there was overwhelming popular support for it, anyway. Probably most folks never even heard of it. [http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/02/snapshot022210.html](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/02/snapshot022210.html) > [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > As the Dems have repeatedly used the filibuster themselves, and it is very plain that they have no problem with nullifying majority rule when it suits they’re political convenience, there is no need to take them seriously when they appeal to the principle of majority rule to invalidate a Republican filibuster. That applies in this case. Citation, please? ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/16 "2011-12-09T17:06:59Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > This is an exceptionally egregious abuse of the filibuster, however. Republicans are not objecting to Cordray’s qualifications, or his ethics, or any other issue related to his fitness for public service. Republicans are trying to accomplish through the filibuster what they could not accomplish through legislation, which is to limit regulation of the financial industry. For that reason alone I think there should be different rules for Republicans than there are for Democrats. > > The GOP has demonstrated they lack the maturity to govern, so they should be sanctioned when ever possible and by what ever means necessary. It is time for Obama to start punishing districts that elect Republicans who will not negotiate in good faith; he needs to get all LBJ on their asses. Threaten their local appropriations, take whatever executive actions are availble to him to make life difficult in Republican districts. Veto military procurement programs, water projects, and other spending in red districts. Until it is painful to be a conservative, they will continue to act like children. So basically, you want a one-party state–that is, whoever will not give Democrats whatever they want is evil and must be punished until they submit. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/17 "2011-12-09T17:10:34Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > [Richard Cordray, Consumer Financial President Bureau: Will the GOP filibuster Obama’s nominees out of existence?](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2011/12/richard_cordray_consumer_financial_president_bureau_will_the_gop_filibuster_obama_s_nominees_out_of_existence_.html) > > Look, call me crazy, but wasn’t the CFPB created: > > 1. As a response to a financial disaster and overall disgust of the general public > 2. _With public mandate_. No to neither. It was ill thought out, kneejerk legislation that should never have come into existence in the first place. From that article (emphasis mine): > [@](#): > > Republicans will talk about this strategy to anyone who listens. They talked about it in the run-up to the vote. “We really are not arguing about Mr. Cordray,” Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, told PBS News on Dec. 7. “I think he does have qualifications, if we could get this structure set, **so that there would be an accountability in this agency, which there is not**.” > > That day, I asked Sen. Richard Lugar if the CFPB would be hampered by a Cordray filibuster. “I don’t see that as a problem,” he said. “ **I think the creation of this particular organization in this form was a legislative disaster. It’s not a question of the merits of the nominee. It’s a question of accountability**.” > > This is what Republicans were saying about the CFPB in 2010. They didn’t like that it was set up as part of the Federal Reserve, and they didn’t like that its chairman would be given a five-year term, which meant he didn’t serve at the pleasure of the current president. They lost; the CFPB was born. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/18 "2011-12-09T17:12:31Z")
> [@](#): > > So basically, you want a one-party state–that is, whoever will not give Democrats whatever they want is evil and must be punished until they submit. Why, yes, that’s it! We are all stupid, blind, and utterly biased. Your job is done, **LP** , you can go now. Here’s your hat. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/19 "2011-12-09T17:23:54Z")
The Republicans are currently using the filibuster more than at any point in history. So one would think that if Bricker had an ounce of honesty, he’d factor that into his neener-neener argument. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/20 "2011-12-09T17:25:12Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why, yes, that’s it! We are all stupid, blind, and utterly biased. Your job is done, **LP** , you can go now. Here’s your hat. Can I use that hat to store my brain-eating zombie piranha? I can think of no safer place to put it. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625.md?page=2)