# Dear Republicans: This Is Not How Democracy Works! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625 "2011-12-09T15:30:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/21 "2011-12-09T17:32:33Z")
C’mon folks, really? You’re going to go with “Well, they use it more than we did… \\\…” What are you? Teenagers? You sound like my kids, “She used the X-Box WWWWAYYYY more than I did yesterday.” That may be more pathetic than “neener, neener”. Weak sauce, weak sauce… ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/22 "2011-12-09T17:32:45Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Well, as the New York Times said back in 1995, the filibuster is derailing Clinton’s agenda, and needs to be curtailed. > > Of course, they said in 2005 that the filibuster’s existence goes to the center of the peculiar but effective form of government America cherishes when Senate Democrats were using it against Bush’s agenda. > > And they said just last month we should end the filibuster. > > So let’s just cut to the chase. I don’t wish to put words in the OP’s mouth, but it seems clear that the actual rule favored by the New York Times is: When the Republicans have a majority in the Senate, the Senate shall have a filibuster rule; when the Democrats have the majority, no filibuster rule should exist. The Republicans are shit and you know it, but are just too beholden to their brand of politics to say it, which is why you have to resort to misleading statements and outright lies like the above :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/23 "2011-12-09T17:36:06Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > C’mon folks, really? You’re going to go with “Well, they use it more than we did… \\\…” > > What are you? Teenagers? You sound like my kids, “She used the X-Box WWWWAYYYY more than I did yesterday.” > > That may be more pathetic than “neener, neener”. Weak sauce, weak sauce… Are you kidding? The filibuster is an emergency brake. The Republicans are using it without letting up. Why is that not a worthy of comment? You think them using it more than twice as much as any congress in history isn’t something that’s an issue? Jesus, man. Think before you type. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/24 "2011-12-09T17:43:52Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Why, yes, that’s it! We are all stupid, blind, and utterly biased. That’s a pretty good summation of the case. > [@elucidator](#): > > Your job is done, **LP** , you can go now. Here’s your hat. Naw, I think I’ll stick around a little while. It’s so much fun watching liberals trying to show off how intellectual they are. And that hat’s made of tin foil, so it must be yours. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/25 "2011-12-09T17:45:14Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Are you kidding? The filibuster is an emergency brake. The Republicans are using it without letting up. Why is that not a worthy of comment? You think them using it more than twice as much as any congress in history isn’t something that’s an issue? > > Jesus, man. Think before you type. Well, I’m not Jesus. Hell, I’m not even Jewish, but I get that alot. No, I don’t think “Your guys use it more” and “Our guys use it less” is a particularly noteworthy issue or defense. Welcome to modern politics. It’s what the “You’re with us or ag’in’ us” attitude has devolved to. One side is no more or less guilty than the other… and you are a blind partisan hack if you think otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/26 "2011-12-09T17:49:59Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Well, I’m not Jesus. Hell, I’m not even Jewish, but I get that alot. > > No, I don’t think “Your guys use it more” and “Our guys use it less” is a particularly noteworthy issue or defense. Welcome to modern politics. It’s what the “You’re with us or ag’in’ us” attitude has devolved to. One side is no more or less guilty than the other… and you are a blind partisan hack if you think otherwise. But our side is RIGHTEOUS, and WE use it only as it should be used! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/27 "2011-12-09T17:52:51Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Ah, the “neener neener, the Democrats did it too” defense. > > Tell me, i_n this particular case cited by the OP_, should the Republicans be allowed to shut down the agency using this particular method? Not CAN they, but SHOULD they? Is this an appropriate use of the rules. > > Don’t tell me who did what sometime in the past. Answer the question for THIS particular case. Yes. The rules permit it, and they feel it’s in their best interest. I will say that, based on my ten minute study of the issue, if I were in charge, I wouldn’t take this action, but I won’t substitute my judgement for theirs by declaring that they should do something based on my ten minute study of the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/28 "2011-12-09T17:52:55Z")
Lets do away with this Filibuster sumbitch altogether! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/29 "2011-12-09T17:53:19Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > Well, I’m not Jesus. Hell, I’m not even Jewish, but I get that alot. Really? I guess I was tricked by the killer abs. 😃 > [@](#): > > No, I don’t think “Your guys use it more” and “Our guys use it less” is a particularly noteworthy issue or defense. Welcome to modern politics. It’s what the “You’re with us or ag’in’ us” attitude has devolved to. One side is no more or less guilty than the other. Why is no side more or less guilty? Why exactly? Do you think it’s a law of physics that both sides have to be equally at fault? Were the south and the north equally at fault for the Civil War? One side can be more at fault at a given time. And as it happens, the Republicans have decided that nothing passes without a filibuster. They disrupt nuclear treaties and the debt ceiling. They burn every single bill that comes their way and they obstruct appointments at unprecedented levels. It used to be the filibuster was used for emergencies. Now, to the hysterical loons on the right, everything is an emergency. They scream about socialism for every little thing. If everyone previously had kept obstruction to a “5”, they are the first guys who were willing to take it to “11”. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/30 "2011-12-09T17:53:47Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Which applies in the case in which someone’s rights are being infringed. Newsflash: this is not applicable to every political decision. Or do you think that the legality of the jewish religion is “Tyranny of the majority” against the Nazis in the country? “Tryanny of the majority” is a stock phrase Democrats and lefties in general often use when they don’t get their own way. I’m surprised we got all the way to fifteen posts before someone Godwinized the thread. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > I’m going to assume you mean the supreme court… You mean when it comes to laws that are, according to the constitution, _fucking illegal_? Also, I kinda wanna look up the political affiliations of the individual judges… No, I’m not talking about the Supreme Court. I’m talking about lefties declaring anything they want to be a right as a superficial and obvious rationalization for overriding majority rule whenever they want. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > [http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/02/snapshot022210.html](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/2010/02/snapshot022210.html) /quote] > > Oh, wow! A poll conducted by the New York Times and CBS News. You just know that’s gonna be impartial and objective! Next time, try to find sources that aren’t propaganda organs of the Democratic party. > Citation, please? Uh, yeah. You need a cite for that. You really do. Christ on a skateboard. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/31 "2011-12-09T17:54:39Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The Republicans are shit and you know it, but are just too beholden to their brand of politics to say it, which is why you have to resort to misleading statements and outright lies like the above :rolleyes: There’s nothing either misleading or an outright lie in what I typed. Please identify the statements you claim are lies. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/32 "2011-12-09T17:54:51Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > Naw, I think I’ll stick around a little while. It’s so much fun watching liberals trying to show off how intellectual they are. And that hat’s made of tin foil, so it must be yours. We’re not smarter than you. We just don’t believe the lies that your news sources tell you. Your entire world-view is based on misinformation and outright fabrication. You’re a victim, not stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/33 "2011-12-09T17:56:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The Republicans are currently using the filibuster more than at any point in history. > > So one would think that if Bricker had an ounce of honesty, he’d factor that into his neener-neener argument. Yes, and before that, the Democrats were using it more than at any other point in history. So what? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/34 "2011-12-09T17:56:28Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > But our side is RIGHTEOUS, and WE use it only as it should be used! Do you know that Republicans are using it twice as much as any congress before? Even as much as Dems hated Bush, they didn’t obstruct him as much. Does that bother you? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/35 "2011-12-09T17:57:58Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Even as much as Dems hated Bush, they didn’t obstruct him as much. Does that bother you? Of course it bothers me; they should’ve obstructed him more. ---
**Author:** ![FuriousGeorge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecae2f/32.png) [@FuriousGeorge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FuriousGeorge)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/36 "2011-12-09T18:01:00Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Really? I guess I was tricked by the killer abs. 😃 > > Why is no side more or less guilty? Why exactly? Do you think it’s a law of physics that both sides have to be equally at fault? > > Were the south and the north equally at fault for the Civil War? One side can be more at fault at a given time. And as it happens, the Republicans have decided that nothing passes without a filibuster. They disrupt nuclear treaties and the debt ceiling. They burn every single bill that comes their way and they obstruct appointments at unprecedented levels. > > It used to be the filibuster was used for emergencies. Now, to the hysterical loons on the right, everything is an emergency. They scream about socialism for every little thing. If everyone previously had kept obstruction to a “5”, they are the first guys who were willing to take it to “11”. Because, again, it’s partisanship that makes you think everyone kept it at a “5”… it went from a 5 to an 8 to a 10 to an 11. It’s a thing, man. It’s not, all of a sudden, it went from normal to 11. It has **BEEN** creeping. I know, I know. “We” used it justly and reasonably in the absolute most honorable terms of the idea because of the dangerous wingnuts on the other side. What were we supposed to do? It’s “the loons on the other side” who cranked that shit up for no good reason. But, that’s horseshit, I don’t buy it for a second. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/37 "2011-12-09T18:03:01Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Do you know that Republicans are using it twice as much as any congress before? > > Even as much as Dems hated Bush, they didn’t obstruct him as much. Does that bother you? Not really. There was talk of eliminating the filibuster when both chambers and the President were under Democratic control, and this was only two years ago. Surely, Barry and Harry and Nancy saw the which way the wind was blowing with respect to the loyal opposition, but still opted to keep it untouched (likely because they know they’ll find it useful in the future). If this is such an important issue, they can require the filibuster to take place and do a little log-rolling to get the GOP to break ranks. Or paint the party as obstructionist to get some public pressure on them. All of which would be a good result. But it’s not a constitutional crisis. ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/38 "2011-12-09T18:06:49Z")
> [@spooje](#): > > Lets do away with this Filibuster sumbitch altogether! The House has already gotten rid of the filibuster. The Senate can get rid of it anytime they want. The fact that they haven’t tells me there are plenty of senators on both sides of the aisle who want to leave the filibuster option open. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/39 "2011-12-09T18:07:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, and before that, the Democrats were using it more than at any other point in history. > > So what? Is that true? [![](https://healthreformtrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/senate-gridlock1.jpg) ](https://healthreformtrends.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/senate-gridlock1.jpg) It certainly seems that the trend has been less, and the Republicans have gone twice as much as ever before. Now, as an honest person, can you really say that both sides are equal? Or will you admit that your side, the Republicans, are being exceptionally partisan? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2011, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/40 "2011-12-09T18:09:13Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Really? I guess I was tricked by the killer abs. 😃 > > Why is no side more or less guilty? Why exactly? Do you think it’s a law of physics that both sides have to be equally at fault? > > Were the south and the north equally at fault for the Civil War? One side can be more at fault at a given time. And as it happens, the Republicans have decided that nothing passes without a filibuster. They disrupt nuclear treaties and the debt ceiling. They burn every single bill that comes their way and they obstruct appointments at unprecedented levels. > > It used to be the filibuster was used for emergencies. Now, to the hysterical loons on the right, everything is an emergency. They scream about socialism for every little thing. If everyone previously had kept obstruction to a “5”, they are the first guys who were willing to take it to “11”. TBH I wouldn’t have wept had somebody been willing to take it to 11 during the years 2001 - 2009. Serious question, though: Are filibusters actually happening? With the Jefferson Smith talking for 36 hours, and refusing to yield? Or is it all just a bunch of guys playing their _Yu-Gi-Oh_ filibuster card that takes 60 _Yu-Gi-Oh_ cloture cards to counter? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625.md?page=3)