# Dear Republicans: This Is Not How Democracy Works! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 9, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625 "2011-12-09T15:30:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/101 "2011-12-10T01:29:34Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So… A large number of the country seems to believe it when a Republican running for the nomination tells them that [our kids can’t openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0PAJNntoRgA) Or I guess some folks believe Perry when he says that Obama is conducting a war on religion. > > But I guess lies are OK if the Republicans feel it’s in their best interest to fool the American people. So, I guess you’re saying is: “Abuse of the filibuster is NOT how democracy works! Rationalizing away the results of free elections is!” Man, it’d be a LOT easier to get some fuckin’ democracy around here if we didn’t have to deal with people voting the wrong way. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/102 "2011-12-10T01:37:12Z")
Oh my laaawd there’s so many mad libs who identify with the Dem Party for inexplicable reasons in this thread. Taste those tears. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/103 "2011-12-10T02:26:00Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Oh my laaawd there’s so many mad libs who identify with the Dem Party for inexplicable reasons in this thread. Taste those tears. That’s about the level I’d have expected for your contribution. I’m just kidding, I have no idea who you are. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/104 "2011-12-10T02:30:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Sure. What for you is “obstructionism” for others is “preventing a steamrolling”. … [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/sGArqoF0TpQ/maxresdefault.jpg "Both Sides - SMBC Theater") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGArqoF0TpQ) Watch this. This video may be a comedy piece, but it is a biting parody of _most_ of what is wrong with this viewpoint. The idea that both sides of the issue are equivalent is quite often entirely a farce. And you know what? This is a case where we have _documented_ evidence of obstructionism. Not steamrolling, _obstructionism_. You know how I know this? From the article on the OP! > [@](#): > > Republicans will talk about this strategy to anyone who listens. They talked about it in the run-up to the vote. “We really are not arguing about Mr. Cordray,” Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas, told PBS News on Dec. 7. They’re not arguing “X is not fit for the job”. They’re simply trying to _ensure that nobody is able to take the job_! They would reject the reincarnation of Ronald fucking Reagan! And _that_ is not obstructionism? ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/105 "2011-12-10T02:30:51Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > A “recess appointment” is “gaming the system” as much as filibustering is. Or as much as blocking recess appointments is. So if someone is gaming the system to block a legal appointment from even getting a vote, it’s just as much gaming the system to sidestep their obstructionism via another hole in the system? So if you’re a thief and you mug me for my wallet with a knife and I pickpocket it off you when I see you later, we’re both assholes? I think it’s just you. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/106 "2011-12-10T03:21:47Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > The lies here are many, some outright, some implied. And everything that’s not a lie is misleading > > The obvious lie is that liberals only care about the filibuster when we’re in the majority. But I never said that. See, THAT claim of yours would be a lie. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/107 "2011-12-10T03:26:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Ah good. So you’re cool with the filibuster right now, after the 2010 elections, right? No, because my argument is that it’s been ridiculously overused regardless of the balance of the Senate since 1970, not that it should only be used at such and such a time. I can point out that you’re incorrect about an implication in your post without taking on any other baggage. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/108 "2011-12-10T03:43:34Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The idea that both sides of the issue are equivalent is quite often entirely a farce. And you know what? This is a case where we have _documented_ evidence of obstructionism. Not steamrolling, _obstructionism_. You know how I know this? From the article on the OP! I didn’t say that steamrolling = obstructionism. I say that what you think is “obstructionism” some people think of as “prevention of steamrolling”. > [@](#): > > They’re not arguing “X is not fit for the job”. They’re simply trying to _ensure that nobody is able to take the job_! Of course. Because they want to prevent being steamrolled by having the department exist. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/109 "2011-12-10T03:46:56Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > So if someone is gaming the system to **block a legal appointment from even getting a vote** , it’s just as much gaming the system to sidestep their obstructionism via another hole in the system? Karma is a bitch. > **[George W. Bush Supreme Court candidates | The filibuster](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_Supreme_Court_candidates#The_filibuster)** > > Soon after President Bush's first inauguration in January 2001, many liberal academics became worried that he would begin packing the federal judiciary with conservative jurists. Yale law professor Bruce Ackerman, writing in the February 2001 edition of The American Prospect, encouraged the use of the filibuster to stop Bush from placing any nominee on the Supreme Court during his first term. In addition, law professors Cass Sunstein (University of Chicago) and Laurence Tribe (Harvard), along On... With no other way to block confirmation, the Senate Democrats started to filibuster judicial nominees. On February 12 2003, Miguel Estrada, a nominee for the D.C. Circuit, became the first court of appeals nominee ever to be filibustered.[12] Later, nine other conservative court of appeals nominees were also filibustered. These nine were Priscilla Owen, Charles W. Pickering, Carolyn Kuhl, David W. McKeague, Henry Saad, Richard Allen Griffin, William H. Pryor, William Gerry Myers III and Janice Rogers Brown.[13] Three of the nominees (Estrada, Pickering and Kuhl) withdrew their nominations before the end of the 108th Congress. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/110 "2011-12-10T03:49:35Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Karma is a bitch. > > [George W. Bush Supreme Court candidates - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush_Supreme_Court_candidates#The_filibuster) > > With no other way to block confirmation, the Senate Democrats started to filibuster judicial nominees. On February 12 2003, Miguel Estrada, a nominee for the D.C. Circuit, became the first court of appeals nominee ever to be filibustered.[12] Later, nine other conservative court of appeals nominees were also filibustered. These nine were Priscilla Owen, Charles W. Pickering, Carolyn Kuhl, David W. McKeague, Henry Saad, Richard Allen Griffin, William H. Pryor, William Gerry Myers III and Janice Rogers Brown.[13] Three of the nominees (Estrada, Pickering and Kuhl) withdrew their nominations before the end of the 108th Congress. Karma is a bitch? Isn’t what we’re talking about how one side is using this way more than anyone ever has? Wouldn’t that mean that karma doesn’t apply? Since, you know the scales aren’t balanced? Jesus-fuck you’re stupid, and a Libertarian. But I repeat myself. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/111 "2011-12-10T03:51:17Z")
**Lobohan:** Sorry, you’re right, that was an immature comment. The Republicans are in the wrong for kicking the Dem’s asses so badly. How dare they block the will of the people with such underhanded tricks? Someone should do something about this political factionalism. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > They’re not arguing “X is not fit for the job”. They’re simply trying to _ensure that nobody is able to take the job_! They would reject the reincarnation of Ronald fucking Reagan! And _that_ is not obstructionism? You’re 100% correct. It is obstructionism. And you’re so mad. Look at all those italics. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/112 "2011-12-10T03:51:18Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Karma is a bitch? Isn’t what we’re talking about how one side is using this way more than anyone ever has? Karma doesn’t have to be proportional. IIRC, it was Obama that said “If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun”. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/113 "2011-12-10T03:55:08Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > **Lobohan:** Sorry, you’re right, that was an immature comment. The Republicans are in the wrong for kicking the Dem’s asses so badly. How dare they block the will of the people with such underhanded tricks? Someone should do something about this political factionalism. > > You’re 100% correct. It is obstructionism. And you’re so mad. Look at all those italics. Psst, you didn’t quote me. If there is one thing I can count on from the conservatives here, it’s that you try so hard with the limited skills you have. Except Bricker. He’s actually smart. Shame really. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/114 "2011-12-10T04:05:57Z")
Patience. He’s smart, we’re right, sooner or later, he’s ours. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/115 "2011-12-10T04:10:42Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Patience. He’s smart, we’re right, sooner or later, he’s ours. You don’t know the \*power \*of the dark side. Seriously though, it’s way easier over there. They get their opinions free on the radio. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/116 "2011-12-10T05:00:00Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Still waiting for an answer to the question of whether there have been any actual filibusters (as opposed to virtual filibusters) in recent years. > [@Lobohan](#): > > My understanding is that these are the votes for cloture, not an _according to hoyle_ filibuster. I think Bernie Sanders was the last person to try a reading the phonebook version. Ta. Well, _FUCK_ that. Keep filibusters on the table, for any senator that wants to do it, but _make them fucking do it_! ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/117 "2011-12-10T05:11:27Z")
> [@FuriousGeorge](#): > > My ideology says BOTH dominant parties in this country are fucking retarded. NEITHER is better or more honest or more ideologically just or smells prettier or anything than the other. I’d be interested in seeing you endorse the contrapositive of what you just wrote: [QUOTE=Nobody; this is just a convenient box for containing the relevant text] My ideology says BOTH dominant parties in this country are fucking retarded. NEITHER is _ **worse** _ or _ **less** _ honest or _ **less** _ ideologically just or smells _ **nastier** _ or anything than the other. [/QUOTE] That about fit your worldview? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/118 "2011-12-10T05:24:17Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > The question for every thinking person should be: “Is it in the country’s interest?” > [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > Well, the country keeps electing and re-electing Republicans, so … Ooh! I know this one! “The country keeps electing and re-electing Republicans, so _thinking persons (who vote) are not nearly as plentiful as one might expect or desire._” Right? ---
**Author:** ![AlienVessels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ba8739/32.png) [@AlienVessels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlienVessels)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 7:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/119 "2011-12-10T07:46:42Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, and before that, the Democrats were using it more than at any other point in history. > > So what? I’m pretty sure you know what the graph of filibuster use by year looks like. You should be ashamed of this kind of tactic. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625/120 "2011-12-10T15:14:10Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Patience. He’s smart, we’re right, sooner or later, he’s ours. I’ve always found the power of Stubborn to be far greater than the power of Smart. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-republicans-this-is-not-how-democracy-works/605625.md?page=7)