# Dear (rich) people who oppose even a paltry $15.00 an hour minimum wage: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243 "2016-12-08T23:52:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![OffByOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/45deac/32.png) [@OffByOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OffByOne)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/41 "2016-12-09T02:58:49Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The current MW is $7.25/hr. We know that during normal times, small changes (~ 10%) in the MW have little to no measurable impact on unemployment. Upping the MW to $15/hr is a more than doubling of the MW and is not a “small change”. That will very likely have a significant impact on the unemployment rate > > Sorry. Yeah, this is what happens when you don’t raise the minimum wage for decades and then say, “Boo hoo! It’s going to cost us too much! Too big a jump! We’ll all be ruined!” Eff that! Who’s going to buy all the TVs and Play Stations that we import from around the world to boost your stock portfolio if no one can afford to eat, let alone play? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/42 "2016-12-09T03:05:27Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Oh, I’ve heard of it. It’s not “widespread” in the sense that ThelmaLou is claiming except in your imagination, which knows no bounds. I didn’t say it was “widespread,” but it is common knowledge among people who have a broad, liberal arts education. I came across it in a graduate class (2 semesters) called The History of American Christianity that I took in 1969. Sadly, liberal arts programs have been given short shrift in favor of STEM and business classes. So, sadly, nowadays a grown-up can graduate with a college degree and never have had in-depth exposure to this stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/43 "2016-12-09T03:12:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > The guy might have been an asshole, but if he has a large employee base, he’s probably correct. Not many decent sized companies could survive a sudden mandate to double their employees’ salaries. McDonald’s has already fired the first round in the minimum wage battle. McDonald’s Announces Its Answer to $15 an Hour Minimum Wage – Touch-Screen Cashiers. Yep, you want 15 bucks an hour, meet your replacement. For English, press 1. For Spanish, press 2. For a super sized order press 5 Please swipe your card now. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/44 "2016-12-09T03:14:42Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > 15 bucks an hour = prices going up = business going down = fewer positions available. Wages going up = wealth redistribution between social classes. I suspect that this is the actual bugbear in Republican circles. > [@Vicsage](#): > > Do you know who would really be pissed with a minimum wage increase to $15 an Hour? Those people who are already making $15 an hour. Their pay just went from about double minimum wage to minimum wage. Basically a decrease in buying power. :dubious: Too bad they can’t negotiate better terms. @ **HeXen** - Brilliant parody or sad testimonial. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Not many decent sized companies could survive a sudden mandate to double their employees’ salaries. 😕 Except perhaps the ones possessing competitors dealing with similar operating conditions. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/45 "2016-12-09T03:50:36Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > 😕 Except perhaps the ones possessing competitors dealing with similar operating conditions. Whole businesses can go out of business if people decide “X” is now a luxury instead of a staple or if they compete in the global market where other countries are not subject to the US’s MW laws. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/46 "2016-12-09T03:56:55Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Whole businesses can go out of business if people decide “X” is now a luxury instead of a staple or if they compete in the global market where other countries are not subject to the US’s MW laws. Come on, now. Real world. I work in the industrial sector. The owner would get a loan if he had to (probably not the first). The market demand that was there the day before the new, hypothetical MW law came into effect is still likely to be largely intact the following day. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/47 "2016-12-09T04:05:47Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > The obvious quick answer is, maybe he should stop flying private jets around. What a great idea. Let’s takes some random guy you met on a plane and, without knowing one single thing about his business, debate what his business plan should be. How could we possibly get anything wrong? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/48 "2016-12-09T04:07:48Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > I didn’t say it was “widespread,” Yes, you did. You assigned it to “Republicans”. Now, if you want to backtrack and say “Oh, my oh my, I did not mean to malign all or even most Republicans”, you can go and have that debate with someone else. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/49 "2016-12-09T04:10:14Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Come on, now. Real world. I work in the industrial sector. The owner would get a loan if he had to (probably not the first). The market demand that was there the day before the new, hypothetical MW law came into effect is still likely to be largely intact the following day. So, why don’t these business guys just raise their prices right now? Do you realize that you just said market demand is independent of price? And you claim to be talking about the “real world”? ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/50 "2016-12-09T04:21:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What a great idea. Let’s takes some random guy you met on a plane and, without knowing one single thing about his business, debate what his business plan should be. How could we possibly get anything wrong? He wasn’t a random guy. He was a known, regular customer, and I know the rather large amount he was paying for the trip. Do you really not see the irony of this person, standing on a private jet at 45,000 feet, complaining about paying people a bit more to reach a proposed minimum wage? Even if there turn out to be good reasons for his argument, do you not even acknowledge the optics of that moment are pretty bad? If not, I’d say you’re working overtime (heh) in giving him the benefit of the doubt. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/51 "2016-12-09T04:24:56Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > “bad” as in “currently too low for anyone to actually live on” > > or “bad” as in “it makes it so that rich pricks have to pay decent wage, and can’t suck the profits out of a business so they can buy more useless crap, and that makes baby Jesus cry”? Bad as in those jobs go to China, India, or to under the table wages. Job force participation being so low is the fake reason why unemployment numbers look reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/52 "2016-12-09T04:29:14Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > The obvious quick answer is, maybe he should stop flying private jets around. > > I have friends who complain about people on public assistance who (supposedly) have big TVs and eat lobster, and they are very quick to say that they shouldn’t be doing that. I think if you’re going to complain about paying people a bit more, you don’t get to do it in your private jet. And then you’d be out of a job. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/53 "2016-12-09T04:39:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Yes, you did. You assigned it to “Republicans”. Now, if you want to backtrack and say “Oh, my oh my, I did not mean to malign all or even most Republicans”, you can go and have that debate with someone else. That’s the best ya got? What’s next? Rubber-glue? The hamster called. He wants his wheel back. I say we give it to him. But it’s been fun. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/54 "2016-12-09T04:58:18Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > He wasn’t a random guy. He was a known, regular customer, and I know the rather large amount he was paying for the trip. Do you really not see the irony of this person, standing on a private jet at 45,000 feet, complaining about paying people a bit more to reach a proposed minimum wage? Even if there turn out to be good reasons for his argument, do you not even acknowledge the optics of that moment are pretty bad? > > If not, I’d say you’re working overtime (heh) in giving him the benefit of the doubt. To me, yes, he’s some random guy. You chose to reveal absolutely nothing about him or his business. So unless you want to claim that no one should every charter a private jet, then I don’t see how I can offer any insight into this guy’s business. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/55 "2016-12-09T05:37:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > To me, yes, he’s some random guy. You chose to reveal absolutely nothing about him or his business. So unless you want to claim that no one should every charter a private jet, then I don’t see how I can offer any insight into this guy’s business. In deference to his privacy, I won’t reveal details of what his business is or anything that might identify him. And I don’t see how your comment follows. I have no objection to people chartering private jets. I do, however think if they reach that level of success they don’t get to complain about a a raise in the minimum wage. I suppose the retort would be, “They didn’t get where they are by paying people more money than they have to.” To which I reply: Tough titty. You reach a point where you can charter my very expensive plane, you have some sort of moral responsibility to support higher wages at the minimum - MINIMUM - level. I’m sure a lot of savings could be had and passed on to his employees if he merely downsized to a somewhat smaller jet. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/56 "2016-12-09T05:41:37Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > 15 bucks an hour = prices going up = business going down = fewer positions available. Cite? > [@Morgenstern](#): > > When they start paying all the help 15 bucks an hour, even the rich will have to mortgage their homes to take the family to the movies. Riiiight… Because that’s a thing. > [@Vicsage](#): > > Do you know who would really be pissed with a minimum wage increase to $15 an Hour? Those people who are already making $15 an hour. Their pay just went from about double minimum wage to minimum wage. Basically a decrease in buying power. And they’re unlikely to get a raise anytime soon since their companies payroll just went up. I’d much rather see people form labor unions to get their wages up, than run to some “nanny” government to get what they deserve. And those people are _douchebags_ who are too stupid to not fall for the obvious rhetoric. To those, I say: “HEY ASSHOLES, YOU’RE NOT GETTING LESS”. Wasn’t it the republicans who complained about “class warfare” tearing people down? Well shit, if I make $15 an hour as a sous-chef, and now the dishwasher is _also_ making $15 an hour, what have I lost? Oh right - _nothing_. Not only that, but I have _gained_ a much stronger bargaining position, as I can credibly argue that my work is worth quite a bit more than $15 an hour. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/57 "2016-12-09T06:10:28Z")
> [@Llama\_Llogophile](#): > > I think if you’re going to complain about paying people a bit more, you don’t get to do it in your private jet. An increase of more than 100% is not just a “bit more”. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/58 "2016-12-09T06:12:38Z")
> [@HeXen](#): > > Good ol corporate America? There’s a few realities that some people miss and is why our economy has to be very delicately balanced in order to function properly. Raising wages despite local economies can cause more problems than solve. Our country has been designed first and foremost for a free market. Raise the wage in your county and businesses may look elsewhere, so often it’s offset by tax incentives which isn’t helping our tax dollars anyway if a county can even really afford to, it’s expensive just to be attractive to business owners. The price of everything goes up right along with it, some products go higher and the min wage workers live the exact same lifestyle they lived before. > > Rule #1 about corporate America. Employees exist only to make investors money. Not the other way around. It’s a balance in the scale of economies and is why the minimum wage exists. Rich people are often the job creators due to investing. You want to franchise a McD’s? You’ll need $330,000 to get started. Maybe you could hire only the employees that will invest $10k, that way they can’t complain about their pay because it’s as good as the customers they bring in and can win or lose in the profits. However good luck with finding an employee that could or is wiling to do that. > > Since employees have no invested interest typically less it’s an employee owned situation, they become an asset. They agree to accept the job for a predetermined about of pay only to turn around and demand more at times. They own no risks unlike investors. They own no high stakes like CEO’s which are paid to perform for the investors, not the employees so they of course they make tons of money under contract. There are tons of ways to make a lot of money but often investing in yourself or your own business is certainly a good one. Flipping burgers part time and playing video games full time as certainly plenty of American’s out there do, isn’t quite gonna do it I’m afraid. > > Rich people are often seen as greedy but they are not the only greedy ones out there. Greed is not class specific. There is a reason why the Billionaires get coddled in politics, because they are the driving force keeping American’s employed. Sorry but that Walmart greeter is not keeping anyone employed are they? maybe that assembly line worker with a meth habit, what is he doing for his local economy to ensure future generations can have jobs?..just asking. No, it’s the _customers_ that keep those people employed, and if the customers have less and less buying power they buy less, so fewer employees are needed. If a country’s wealth is distributed more to those who will keep it in circulation instead of being stashed in the Caymans by people who already have way more than they need to survive, the economy as a whole is healthier. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/59 "2016-12-09T07:10:38Z")
I don’t know what the OP considers to be rich but I’m pretty high up on the scale and I oppose the $15 an hour minimum wage. I don’t see why I should be vilified for doing so. $15 and hour minimum wage is a waste of time and will do very little to change the economic situation at the lower end of the wage scale. This is just another liberal feel good measure. Not only won’t I support it but I will actively work against it. I won’t accept anything less than a $20 an hour minimum wage. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [December 9, 2016, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/60 "2016-12-09T07:30:10Z")
$20/hr. minimum wage might be necessary to be able to afford to buy anything that runs on electricity once Trump kicks off the trade war with China. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243.md?page=4)