# Dear (rich) people who oppose even a paltry $15.00 an hour minimum wage: **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 8, 2016, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243 "2016-12-08T23:52:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/141 "2016-12-11T00:36:17Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > That’s unrealistic though. I think you done been whooshed… ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/142 "2016-12-11T01:04:15Z")
> [@brujaja](#): > > No, **Scylla** , they’re not. They were never meant to be. What I’m trying to say is that it’s not just the basics and obvious things that poor people have to struggle for, or do without. I’m not expecting to have big fancy things. I don’t drive a car, I don’t get to shop at Victoria’s Secret or even The Gap. I don’t have cable TV. And I certainly don’t have an iPhone. I have a cheap-ass Kyocera phone, and my service is through Metro; it costs $30 a month. I’m cool with that. > > But there are some amenities that are not extravagant, excessive or a reflection of spoiled expectations. They’re not life-and-death, but I don’t think they’re too much to ask. I think that anyone who is willing to trade labor for money is not unreasonable to believe that money should sustain them. That’s all. I agree with you with the assumption that the economy has the potential to provide a surplus. The US economy does have tremendous unrealized potential. I think it’s time to start pushing for a basic income. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/143 "2016-12-11T01:05:34Z")
> [@pyromyte](#): > > I am honestly shocked that people think you can raise the minimum wage that much without causing unemployment. > > I work as in engineer in manufacturing. Part of my responsibilities is to quote new business to potential customers. I try to strike the most economic balance between manual operations and automation. I know our labor rates down to the second. > > Our competitors are elsewhere in the US, but also India, China, Korea, Mexico, etc. Of course, cost is not the only factor in a business decision, but it can be a big part of it. And we have often lost business to companies overseas because of cost. Sometimes its ‘losing’ business to my own employing company, but in a plant overseas, again, because of labor costs (including my own). > > Honestly the more our guys can do with automation, the more we can keep jobs here in the USA, including entry level assembly positions, because labor costs too much already. [yet automation is often viewed as the evil job taker, ha!]. > > We struggle to find people with even the most basic maintenance/technical skills and we pay well above industry average. Yet we get people knocking down our doors to earn less than $15 for jobs that require someone to basically to show up on time and work a full day with no further responsibility and a very small skillset. > > This is to say, the market is already saturated with un-skilled workers already. Why pay more when the supply is already outstripping the demand by a large margin? At the current pay levels it seems people are already not motivated to learn anything of value to the market. Why would we want to reward that with increased pay? How are we gonna keep jobs in the US like that? > > Besides the unemployment argument, what business are my wages to anyone other than me and my employer? If I agree to work for $3/hour and my employer is happy to pay it, then who the hell cares? They don’t honestly believe that. They say they do purely for political purposes. It’s no different than some on the right who say humanity has no impact on climate. ---
**Author:** ![eulalia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eulalia/32/457_2.png) [@eulalia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eulalia)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/144 "2016-12-11T02:38:53Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I agree with you with the assumption that the economy has the potential to provide a surplus. The US economy does have tremendous unrealized potential. I think it’s time to start pushing for a basic income. I’d be more in favor of that than the minimum wage, but is it politically viable? Where would the money come from? ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/145 "2016-12-11T03:09:16Z")
> [@eulalia](#): > > I’d be more in favor of that than the minimum wage, but is it politically viable? Where would the money come from? It would come from people who earned it. Mostly the middle class. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/146 "2016-12-11T03:13:30Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > It would come from people who earned it. Mostly the middle class. Says the Welfare Queen of the SDMB. The irony, it burns. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/147 "2016-12-11T03:17:27Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Says the Welfare Queen of the SDMB. > > The irony, it burns. > > 😃 Never taken welfare in my life. Every time you try to equate this, you just look more and more like a fool. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/148 "2016-12-11T03:35:47Z")
> [@curlcoat](#): > > Never taken welfare in my life. Every time you try to equate this, you just look more and more like a fool. Riiiiight. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/149 "2016-12-11T06:08:19Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Riiiiight. > > 😛 Well, Fact checking this leads to… > [@Insurance company poopyheads](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/215): > > I worked for over 35 years before I became disabled, and so paid into that SSDI. Just want to clarify that for anyone reading - **Broomstick** has axes to grind. > [@Insurance company poopyheads](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/insurance-company-poopyheads/502151/214): > > You do, however, receive SSDI which is a taxpayer funded government benefit program. So you take government money every month instead of working for a living. Just want to clarify that for anyone reading. You be the judge. ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/150 "2016-12-11T06:34:36Z")
It’s just that **curlcoat,** along with a whole shitload of other folk, employ a very narrow definition of what ‘welfare’ is. And mostly it’s the ‘all those other people are getting welfare but I’m not’ mentality. In fact, any transfer of funds from the state or any alleviation of financial burden (tax concessions, rebates or similar) are all forms of welfare. Here in Australia (just as an example) we have middle-class families crying foul that they’re paying for single-parents to bring up kids, conveniently forgetting that they get government assistance via family payments and child-care concessions. Or they’re lucky enough to be able to afford an investment property, and can claim monetary benefit via negative gearing. Or companies who reckon they’re going to go under without government grants… They’re ALL, every single one of them, TAXPAYER FUNDED. They’re all a form of welfare. They’re all part of the contract we abide by in a modern capitalist society. So for **curlcoat** (and all the others who moan and groan about the welfare state) to proclaim that they’ve never been part of the welfare system is total bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/151 "2016-12-11T08:29:02Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > It’s just that **curlcoat,** along with a whole shitload of other folk, employ a very narrow definition of what ‘welfare’ is. And mostly it’s the ‘all those other people are getting welfare but I’m not’ mentality. > > In fact, any transfer of funds from the state or any alleviation of financial burden (tax concessions, rebates or similar) are all forms of welfare. Here in Australia (just as an example) we have middle-class families crying foul that they’re paying for single-parents to bring up kids, conveniently forgetting that they get government assistance via family payments and child-care concessions. > > Or they’re lucky enough to be able to afford an investment property, and can claim monetary benefit via negative gearing. > > Or companies who reckon they’re going to go under without government grants… > They’re ALL, every single one of them, TAXPAYER FUNDED. They’re all a form of welfare. They’re all part of the contract we abide by in a modern capitalist society. > > So for **curlcoat** (and all the others who moan and groan about the welfare state) to proclaim that they’ve never been part of the welfare system is total bullshit. When breathing the government’s air and driving on the government’s road is considered welfare don’t you think the word loses meaning? ---
**Author:** ![kambuckta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/53a042/32.png) [@kambuckta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kambuckta)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/152 "2016-12-11T09:41:57Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > When breathing the government’s air and driving on the government’s road is considered welfare don’t you think the word loses meaning? Yes, yes it does. Now you see why it is a completely ‘loaded’ term when applied to ‘those who are not of my socio-economic group’. See?? ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/153 "2016-12-11T14:18:40Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > 15 bucks an hour = prices going up = business going down = fewer positions available. Not to mention the person getting the $15 now has to pay more in taxes, so combined with the above, they are worse off than before. Minimum wage laws are evil disguised as good. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/154 "2016-12-11T15:42:26Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > … > > Minimum wage laws are evil disguised as good. They are a song that politicians sing in an election year to get those minimum wage workers to the polls. Never mind they just killed 95% of the summer/part time jobs by replacing them with robots and longer lines at the check out counter. Minimum wage jobs are for those entering the work force. What are they going to want, full benefits and a cushy retirement too? Most of us worked minimum wage jobs while in college and/or otherwise improved our skills by our own efforts. We knew minimum wage, whether $2.50 and hour or $20.00/hr. was just a start, not a career goal. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/155 "2016-12-11T16:08:50Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Admittedly living in the mid-west is far, far cheaper than living in Frisco, but the OP needs to make a life assessment and some changes/advancements. Jacking up the minimum wage is not going to help his situation in the least. Whining about it even less so. Should the OP get paid more for what she\* does? Quite possibly yes. Should everybody everywhere in the country who’s currently making less than $15.00 an hour get paid more for what they do? That’s a lot harder to justify. Whether $15.00 a hour (or any other particular amount) is “paltry” depends on your living expenses (which can vary wildly) and what you’re doing to earn it. \*(I hope I’m remembering right that **brujaja** is a she) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/156 "2016-12-11T16:50:23Z")
Assuming “ **brujaja** ” is a pun on the Spanish word “_bruja_” (witch, female), then probably so. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/157 "2016-12-11T18:24:14Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > Yes, yes it does. > > Now you see why it is a completely ‘loaded’ term when applied to ‘those who are not of my socio-economic group’. > > See?? Not really. When my family was poor and on welfare we were part of the socioeconomic group that was poor and on welfare. I am not sure what your point is. Are you saying poor people on welfare don’t know that they are on welfare? ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/158 "2016-12-11T18:46:40Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Should the OP get paid more for what she\* does? Quite possibly yes. And that’s between them and their employer. They should convince their employer that they are worth more if they truly are. But forcing an employer to give everyone a raise is not the answer. And for someone making 12 bucks an hour and paying 2K a month for housing, giving them a raise to $15 or even $20 an hour isn’t going to help that. It’s like giving them a gift certificate good towards 10 grand off a new Rolls Royce. San Fran is pricey, but I refuse to believe there isn’t adequate housing for less than two thousand dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2016, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/159 "2016-12-11T19:57:46Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > San Fran is pricey, but I refuse to believe there isn’t adequate housing for less than two thousand dollars. A quick check on Zillow shows me studios for $1500, but not many. And that’s SF proper, not even looking at a 90-minute radius. Nor looking at rooms in large group houses, splitting a 2-bedroom (what I did until age 28), etc. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2016, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243/160 "2016-12-12T00:05:07Z")
> [@kambuckta](#): > > It’s just that **curlcoat,** along with a whole shitload of other folk, employ a very narrow definition of what ‘welfare’ is. And mostly it’s the ‘all those other people are getting welfare but I’m not’ mentality. Illustrating your complete inability to understand what you read. Or that you lie. You can pick. I didn’t take welfare when I qualified for it, much less be upset because I’m not getting it now. > [@](#): > > In fact, any transfer of funds from the state or any alleviation of financial burden (tax concessions, rebates or similar) are all forms of welfare. Only in your mind. Words have definitions. > [@](#): > > They’re ALL, every single one of them, TAXPAYER FUNDED. And most of them shouldn’t be happening. You want to have kids, you pay for them and quit looking to others to do so. But of course, thats the crux of the argument - if I agreed with you WRT the raising of children, you wouldn’t be going on about this. > [@](#): > > So for **curlcoat** (and all the others who moan and groan about the welfare state) to proclaim that they’ve never been part of the welfare system is total bullshit. Again, only in your mind. Welfare is what people get when they have more expenses than income, at a government set rate. They don’t ever have to worked, or paid taxes or done anything that is a benefit to society - indeed, if they have selfishly had kids, they are far more likely to get welfare, and to get more of it for longer. Social security is a government forced pension plan on people who work for a living, that Trump is apparently going to try to abolish because of idiots like you. Since you are too stupid to understand the difference, you should just stop. Especially when you are making statements on something that you have no experience with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-rich-people-who-oppose-even-a-paltry-15-00-an-hour-minimum-wage/774243.md?page=9)