# Dear Starbucks: We Don't WANT to Know What You Think . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535 "2005-10-23T16:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![initech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/439d5e/32.png) [@initech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/initech)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/41 "2005-10-23T23:06:54Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > No, but it means I don’t have to deal with the ubiquity of that stupid logo. Thank God. I wish I was spared that simple, elegant logo. Then I’d only have to endure General Mills, C&H, Tropicana, GE, Amana, Sony, NewsCenter 4, Sesame Street, Old Navy, OshKosh, Pampers, Dole, Juicy Juice, Stride Rite, Columbia Sportswear, Pella, The New York Times, Toyota, Apple, The United States Postal Service, McDonalds, Chevron, Target, Brinks, Wells Fargo, BellSouth, Coca-Cola, Philips, Dasani, Dell, Ikea, Office Depot, Bic and 3M before I sat at my fucking desk each morning. Especially for a company that moves into its digs in such a low-key way, this is the dumbest reason I’ve heard yet for the Starbucks hate. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/42 "2005-10-23T23:19:13Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Their fries are soggy crap, their burgers not half as good as even the worst independent shop (or even McDonalds). Their stuff would not be worth waiting the walk from the car for, let alone anything else. I’ve been there twice, the second time to confirm the suckiness of the food. Huh. Interesting. Over 3,000 posts and I’m just now realizing you’re completely deranged. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2005, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/43 "2005-10-23T23:56:15Z")
> [@Una Persson](#): > > I mean, is Starbucks _really_ that bad, compared to all the places one could get coffee, or is hating it just come back into fashion again on the SDMB, like it seems to every 3-6 months? I guess Winter is coming, after all… That is what irks me, I’m sure most of the hate people have towards Starbucks is simply because it’s trendy to hate it. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/44 "2005-10-24T00:10:18Z")
My local coffeehouse is geared toward college students, and the management makes it a point to get to know us. :shrug: I’m just used to not having Starbucks around and having what I think is a good alternative. When I am in a Starbucks-intensive city, I notice the logos everywhere and it bothers me. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/45 "2005-10-24T00:23:10Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > …$3.50+ for a 16 oz. latte vs $2.75 at many local stands… 16 oz? That’s almost half a litre! And the way you mention it, it sounds like it’s a standard size. Damn - what do you use all that for? ---
**Author:** ![Ukulele\_Ike](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/df788c/32.png) [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/46 "2005-10-24T00:23:57Z")
Mainlining. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/47 "2005-10-24T00:48:33Z")
You know what you should do **Eve**? Vote with your wallet. Stop going to Starbucks. That’ll show 'em. Wait a minute… > [@Eve](#): > > I eat at a diner and avoid Starbucks (not for any political reasons–I just think their coffee and muffins and bad and overpriced). :smack: So tell me again why you give a fuck? ---
**Author:** ![MagicEyes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@MagicEyes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MagicEyes)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/48 "2005-10-24T00:59:07Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > That is what irks me, I’m sure most of the hate people have towards Starbucks is simply because it’s trendy to hate it. No, it’s because their coffee is nasty, bitter burnt crap. I think there are more people who have been brainwashed into thinking that Starbucks is tasty–at least, that’s the best explanation I can think of for why people drink it when they could go to a decent coffee shop. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/49 "2005-10-24T01:20:25Z")
> [@monica](#): > > I don’t think it was originally meant to be anything more than an attempt to appear more sophisticated. Starbucks wants to project the image that they are the coffee of sophisticated people, so they take quotes and stuff that they think sound sophisticated and good and put them on their cups. That’s pretty much what I thought. No offense to anybody here who drinks the stuff, but microbrained attempts at Deep Thoughts are _exactly_ what I’d expect to find written on a cup of Starbucks coffee. Not because I think coffee-drinkers are stupid. I just see that as fitting in perfectly with Starbucks’s image and the demographics they seek. I find myself having an apple cider in Starbucks every other year or so. Maybe I won’t do that anymore. You do get a vague sense that, having offended some religious types, the company is trying to make amends by putting quotes about The Great Barrista in the Sky on their cups. Good to see that Mr. Knight has fallen for it. ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/50 "2005-10-24T01:33:37Z")
> [@postcards](#): > > Starbucks are everywhere. In NYC there’s a place where you can stand just to the left of a Starbucks and look half a block west at another Starbucks. Lewis Black even talks about a Starbucks across the street from a Starbucks. Never seen that (Lewis is a comedian and _might_ have been joshing). But I personally have visited a Starbucks _kitty-corner_ from another Starbucks, at a very busy intersection in Vancouver. One outlet is small in size (probably put in first). The other is large, with considerable outdoor seating, sharing a corner building with a record store. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/51 "2005-10-24T01:35:47Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Lewis is a comedian and _might_ have been joshing). I don’t know if it’s true, but he says it’s in Houston. I don’t think it’s implausible. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/52 "2005-10-24T02:05:49Z")
> [@bdgr](#): > > They burn the hell out of perfectly good coffee destroying all the subtle flavors that make the differant origins of coffee special. Wrong; the reality is that Starbucks roasts their coffee in the _correct_ way, in order to bring out the full boldness of flavor. Just because you, and most Starbucks bashers, are used to drinking coffee that’s roasted to be much more inoffensive and nonthreatening doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. You’re a Peach-flavored Arbor Mist drinker complaining that the $40 bottle of Shiraz that you just tasted “isn’t as sweet!” ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/53 "2005-10-24T02:14:04Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I like my local coffeehouse. I know the people who work there, and they’ve always got a few minutes to sit and chat. I like the non-commercial ambiance; I don’t feel overwhelmed by stuff for sale. I get my coffee, stay for a few minutes or an hour (or however long), and leave happier than I was when I got there. There’s a real sense of community there; I’ve made several friends sitting at those tables. > > Try that at one of the forty-gazillion Starbucks outlets. Many people “try that” at their local Starbucks, and they get it in spades. Starbucks consistently offers a nicer environment and a better product than indie coffee shops; that’s a given. But it’s the fact that their employees are so happy and friendly that seals the deal for most customers. I hate going to the local independent place not just because it’s a cramped shithole with inferior coffee, but because I’m invariably going to have to deal with a poorly-groomed, surly hipster at the counter. Starbucks employees are always _ecstatically_ friendly and cheerful; maybe it’s the health coverage for part-timers, the good pay, or the great benefits that the company gives them. I know about those things because the cute girl that works at my local Starbucks was _raving_ about them while taking my order; I’ve never seen an employee so cheerfully going about their work, so grateful and happy to be working where they were (and I know several people that work for those “Forbes/Fortune 2-Billion best places to work”). Did you know that the average Starbucks employee has _at least_ a bachelor’s degree, and that an overwhelming majority are graduate students? There’s something about that that really leads the place to have a higher standard of non sub-human behind the counter, and that just translates into a great place to be. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/54 "2005-10-24T03:24:22Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > Wrong; the reality is that Starbucks roasts their coffee in the _correct_ way, in order to bring out the full boldness of flavor. Just because you, and most Starbucks bashers, are used to drinking coffee that’s roasted to be much more inoffensive and nonthreatening doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. > > You’re a Peach-flavored Arbor Mist drinker complaining that the $40 bottle of Shiraz that you just tasted “isn’t as sweet!” [Seattle resident checking in.] Dude, there’s plenty of coffee out there that’s better than Starbucks, and plenty of it is at independent coffee places. Just because you haven’t been exposed to it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. (And if I might offer a second opinion, you might want to tone down the “hipper than thou” vibe a bit.) ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/55 "2005-10-24T03:41:25Z")
> [@Hunter Hawk](#): > > [Seattle resident checking in.] > > Dude, there’s plenty of coffee out there that’s better than Starbucks, and plenty of it is at independent coffee places. Just because you haven’t been exposed to it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. > > (And if I might offer a second opinion, you might want to tone down the “hipper than thou” vibe a bit.) Well, for starters, the hip thing to do is bash Starbucks; it’s almost impossibly square to like them, so I don’t think I’m being “hipper than thou.” You may be confusing articulate, intelligent opinions with “hipness.” That aside, the argument remains; Starbucks is doing it the “right” way, rather than “burning” their beans. The thing is, so many people are used to the Maxwell House brand of underroasting, as is popular in America, so they think that the Starbucks is “burnt.” ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/56 "2005-10-24T03:44:11Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > You may be confusing articulate, intelligent opinions with “hipness.” No, I think he just said “hipness” when he meant “snobbishness.” ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/57 "2005-10-24T03:46:26Z")
I foresee a new sizing scheme in the futire. I would like a grande christian cappuchino, a molto grande Free Mason dark roast, and a Jewish Hotcholate. Sorry the hotcholoate only comes in Muslim or Protestant. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/58 "2005-10-24T04:25:39Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I don’t know if it’s true, but he says it’s in Houston. I don’t think it’s implausible. They are, and the good Mr. Black was not making that up or exaggerating. A few doors down from one of the two Landmark Theatres (River Oaks) in Houston there is a small Starbucks in the strip mall the theatre connected to. Across the street is another stripmall with a slightly larger freestanding Starbucks on the corner. You can literally get from one to the other just by crossing the street. People like to take pictures from inside one, so that the logo in the window is visible, with the second Starbucks visible across the street. During peak hours I have been by and frequently seen both of them packed. There is a lot of trendy and expensive shopping in the area, plus it’s a high-traffic part of town to begin with. They’ve been there as long as I’ve been going to that part of town so I imagine they make enough to keep both stores open. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/59 "2005-10-24T05:13:59Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > Wrong; the reality is that Starbucks roasts their coffee in the _correct_ way, in order to bring out the full boldness of flavor. Just because you, and most Starbucks bashers, are used to drinking coffee that’s roasted to be much more inoffensive and nonthreatening doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. Right. Starbucks finally got it right – Five hundred years of consensus about what the desirable qualities in coffee are is just wrong-headed Starbucks-bashing. Caffeol expression is only an incidental and even _unwanted_ byproduct of roasting, and not a volatile and ephemeral end product in-and-of-itself. Coffee makers throughout history have pulled the idea that an espresso roast is at the upper limit of the roasting time out of their collective asses. It’s merely a superstitious prejudice that going beyond bringing the caffeol to the surface of the bean and actually burning it off is an undesirable error. What fools men have been to think that, while the extreme roasting time that produces an espresso bean imparts a pleasant additional flavour as the sugars in the beans begin to caramelize, the retention of the caffeol that gives coffee its pleasant flavour and aroma is a requirement for a decent cup of coffee. God bless Starbucks for boasting that they roast their beans longer than anyone ever thought to before, and poo-poo to the cynics who suspect that the main advantage of the “Starbucks roast” is that it allows cheaper, less marketable beans can be substitited for premium beans, because when you extend the roast a couple minutes beyond that second _expulse_, the subtle flavour of the actual bean is utterly replaced by the products of pyrolysis. _Bravo_ to them also for using their beyond-espresso roasting technique for beans intended to produce drip coffee. How blind we’ve been for the last century, thoughlessly assuming that the different fraction of the bean that ends up in solution depending on the extraction method makes a lighter roast more desirable for drip coffee. How naive of some people to ignorantly suggest that Starbucks’ business model is based on style over substance, when clearly they have hit upon an alchemical secret that has simply eluded coffee makers for half a millennia. Of _course_ the beans were always meant to be burnt. If only we’d have thought of it sooner! :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/60 "2005-10-24T05:37:16Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > I don’t have any Starbucks in my area. > > My point was, the management and employees of my local coffee emporium go out of their way to make their customers feel welcome. I don’t care how long I can hang out at Starbucks, I don’t feel that sense of community and camaraderie. I sit in an overstuffed chair surrounded by overpriced merchandise for sale. Not that there’s anything wrong with spending money, but I hang out to relax and drink coffee and talk to people, something that’s hard to do in a place that’s so obviously a _business_. > > Robin Grr, yeah “business” is evil. Down with commerce, up with the proletariat!! God what a stupid statement. Yeah, I hate the thought of commerce going on, it gets my blood boiling. I hate the thought of an economy functioning in a healthy manner, I hate the thought of new products and services being developed every day increasing the standard of living for everyone. I wish we all still lived in the woods and ate bugs off the ground, that way we wouldn’t have to worry about any businesses. Unless one of our fellow natives tried to become entrepreneurial and sets up a fruit stand, but we’ll just beat him senseless so we won’t have to deal with his “business” leanings anyways. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535.md?page=4)