# Dear Starbucks: We Don't WANT to Know What You Think . . . **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2005, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535 "2005-10-23T16:21:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/61 "2005-10-24T05:43:44Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > God what a stupid statement. Yeah, I hate the thought of commerce going on, it gets my blood boiling. I hate the thought of an economy functioning in a healthy manner, I hate the thought of new products and services being developed every day increasing the standard of living for everyone. I wish we all still lived in the woods and ate bugs off the ground, that way we wouldn’t have to worry about any businesses. Unless one of our fellow natives tried to become entrepreneurial and sets up a fruit stand, but we’ll just beat him senseless so we won’t have to deal with his “business” leanings anyways. Wow. If only she’d said anything like that, that’d be a devastating response. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/62 "2005-10-24T06:04:32Z")
[QUOTE=VCO3] Wrong; the reality is that Starbucks roasts their coffee in the _correct_ way, in order to bring out the full boldness of flavor. Just because you, and most Starbucks bashers, are used to drinking coffee that’s roasted to be much more inoffensive and nonthreatening doesn’t mean that it’s wrong. [QUOTE] Nonsense. I roast coffee for a living sparky. Inoffensive and threatening have nothing to do with it. Every coffee varietal has its own elements of flavor, most of which disappear long before you get to the roast levels that they use. the ethiopian coffees I roast are ruined if they hit 2nd crack, much less get anywhere near the Cafe Del Fuego stage that Strabucks roast at. roasting coffee dark doesn’t bring out the full flavor, it burns it out where all you can taste is the charcoal. You wind up with a thinner tasting coffee because most of the oils and soluables have been burned out of the bean long ago. pugent does not equal bold. I’m not a starbucks basher, I’m a bad coffee basher. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/63 "2005-10-24T06:07:10Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Right. Starbucks finally got it right – Five hundred years of consensus about what the desirable qualities in coffee are is just wrong-headed Starbucks-bashing. > > Caffeol expression is only an incidental and even _unwanted_ byproduct of roasting, and not a volatile and ephemeral end product in-and-of-itself. > > Coffee makers throughout history have pulled the idea that an espresso roast is at the upper limit of the roasting time out of their collective asses. It’s merely a superstitious prejudice that going beyond bringing the caffeol to the surface of the bean and actually burning it off is an undesirable error. What fools men have been to think that, while the extreme roasting time that produces an espresso bean imparts a pleasant additional flavour as the sugars in the beans begin to caramelize, the retention of the caffeol that gives coffee its pleasant flavour and aroma is a requirement for a decent cup of coffee. > > God bless Starbucks for boasting that they roast their beans longer than anyone ever thought to before, and poo-poo to the cynics who suspect that the main advantage of the “Starbucks roast” is that it allows cheaper, less marketable beans can be substitited for premium beans, because when you extend the roast a couple minutes beyond that second _expulse_, the subtle flavour of the actual bean is utterly replaced by the products of pyrolysis. > > _Bravo_ to them also for using their beyond-espresso roasting technique for beans intended to produce drip coffee. How blind we’ve been for the last century, thoughlessly assuming that the different fraction of the bean that ends up in solution depending on the extraction method makes a lighter roast more desirable for drip coffee. > > How naive of some people to ignorantly suggest that Starbucks’ business model is based on style over substance, when clearly they have hit upon an alchemical secret that has simply eluded coffee makers for half a millennia. Of _course_ the beans were always meant to be burnt. If only we’d have thought of it sooner! :smack: ROFLMAO ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/64 "2005-10-24T06:11:48Z")
> [@VCO3](#): > > The thing is, so many people are used to the Maxwell House brand of underroasting, as is popular in America, so they think that the Starbucks is “burnt.” What has America got to do with it. Being on the edge of a university campus (with a starbucks right across the street) I get lots of people from all over the world. The all think starbucks tastes like charcoal. Especially the italians and french. They love my espresso, however. ---
**Author:** ![sturmhauke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e47c2d/32.png) [@sturmhauke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sturmhauke)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/65 "2005-10-24T07:37:00Z")
I don’t like Starbucks because I don’t like coffee, and their hot chocolate is overpriced and not very good. Also, the Safeway downtown decided to install a Starbucks counter, despite the fact that there was already a Starbucks only a few dozen yards away across the parking lot. However, I do have to give them grudging respect for making a profit at another location that had previously been occupied by a whole bunch of different unsuccessful burger joints. ---
**Author:** ![SleepyDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@SleepyDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SleepyDuck)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 8:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/66 "2005-10-24T08:12:13Z")
Does anyone else have a problem getting those bags of airline peanuts open? ---
**Author:** ![MrJackboots](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MrJackboots](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrJackboots)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/67 "2005-10-24T09:43:58Z")
> [@sturmhauke](#): > > I don’t like Starbucks because I don’t like coffee, and their hot chocolate is overpriced and not very good. They are the only ones in many places (that I know about, anyhow) that serve anything approximating a drinking chocolate, though. Chantico is yummy. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/68 "2005-10-24T10:18:29Z")
> [@Lord Ashtar](#): > > You know what you should do **Eve**? Vote with your wallet. Stop going to Starbucks. That’ll show 'em. > > Wait a minute… > > :smack: > > So tell me again why you give a fuck? But… but… it’s the _oppression_! I mean, how is poor **Eve** supposed to walk down the street when, only a couple of blocks away, there is a Starbucks she can’t see dispensing coffee in cups printed with glurge she can’t see? I’m now picturing **Eve** like the little old lady complaining to the football club about being able to see all their great sweaty, hairy players walking around naked and getting showered. So the club sends someone round to apologise and finds out that the l.o.l. lives 70 yards up the road and the clubhouse itself is barely visible because of the angle. How can she possibly see anything that offends her? Well, if she climbs up on top of the wardrobe with these binoculars… :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/69 "2005-10-24T10:19:43Z")
First of all, I. Am. Not. Bashing. Starbucks as a company, nor am I complaining about the inferiority of their products. I buy their whole-bean coffee for use at home, and will gladly stop in for a cuppa. You people are also glossing over the part where I’ve said that I don’t live near a Starbucks. There is no Starbucks in Carlisle, but there are some independents. There are also coffeehouses in Shippensburg, where I go to school. My experience with the independent place I like is that it is welcoming and friendly. It is not staffed by “surly hipsters”. It is staffed by a very maternal woman and other college students, who go out of their way to be friendly and to get to know you. They all know me by name, know which coffees I like and how I like them, and are willing to make recommendations. Conversely, and this may just be the Starbucks outlets I’ve visited (because I certainly can’t have visited all of them), but to the extent that they seem warm and welcoming, it seems to be a corporate vision of warm and welcome. People either get their drinks and leave, or they plant themselves in a chair with a book or newspaper, oblivious to their surroundings. I’ve also met more than a few “surly hipster” employees at Starbucks. It’s not an issue of “corporate bad, independent good”. If there were a Starbucks in Carlisle (and since we’ve gotten a Dunkin’ Donuts/Baskin-Robbins store recently, a Starbucks may not be too far behind), I’d patronize them. I’d still go to my favorite independent for camaraderie, but I’d go to Starbucks for the coffee. Robin ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/70 "2005-10-24T13:32:33Z")
> [@MsRobyn](#): > > Sorry, Daniel, but [Salada](http://www.salada.com) beat you to that. You mean that another tea company already puts idiotic sayings on their teabags? Sure: Celestial Seasonings has been doing that for decades. My innovation is the company’s name. I mean, I could’ve gone with StupidiTeas, but InaniTeas works better. Marketing genius, baby! > [@VCO3](#): > > You may be confusing articulate, intelligent opinions with “hipness.” I think it’s safe to say he was not confusing these two: your post was ill-informed and screedesque, neither articulate nor intelligent. What formal knowledge about coffee-roasting do you have that makes you qualified to judge the “correct” process? Daniel ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/71 "2005-10-24T14:46:05Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Never seen that (Lewis is a comedian and _might_ have been joshing). But I personally have visited a Starbucks _kitty-corner_ from another Starbucks, at a very busy intersection in Vancouver. One outlet is small in size (probably put in first). The other is large, with considerable outdoor seating, sharing a corner building with a record store. Aren’t there two Timmy’s similarly situated, in Halifax or somewhere else in the Maritimes? At any rate, I almost committed a sin. I almost went into a Starbucks… in Madrid. I was waiting for a booksigning to begin and it was that weird hour when none of the restaurants are open yet. So I went in, realized that not even in Spain did they serve simple, decent _café con leche_ like everyone else - and their “latte,” which I assume was at least broadly comparable, cost €3! Well, fuck that. And then I found an equally foofy but local coffee shop right next door that, besides having _café con leche_ for €1.20 like normal people, had a giant fuck-off whipped cream extravaganza for €2, so I had that. So there. And I don’t go into Starbucks in Canada either, except the one that’s in the Chapters downtown. If I want expensive coffee from a titanic chain, I’ll go to 2nd Cup and at least it’ll be a gigantic _Canadian_ chain. (And yes, I know Timmy’s is now owned by Wendy’s. Fuck off, a boy needs his gentle patriotic illusions.) ---
**Author:** ![Beware\_of\_Doug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/278dde/32.png) [@Beware\_of\_Doug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beware_of_Doug)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/72 "2005-10-24T15:26:23Z")
> [@matt\_mcl](#): > > Aren’t there two Timmy’s similarly situated, in Halifax or somewhere else in the Maritimes? Sorry, you’ve evidently asked the only person who’s ever visited Vancouver without also going to the Maritimes. (Was there some airfare special I missed?) So I can’t answer your question. > [@](#): > > a giant fuck-off whipped cream extravaganza I wanna go into Starbucks and ask them what they think constitutes a Giant Fuck-Off Whipped Cream Extravaganza. I imagine several baristas would slather you with whip chargers while yelling “fuck off!” ---
**Author:** ![iluvurmom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iluvurmom/32/7276_2.png) [@iluvurmom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iluvurmom)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/73 "2005-10-24T15:48:34Z")
I worked at Starbucks for a point in time in college. Everyday I would just throw away all the sandwiches and muffins away left over for the day. Their policy at the time was that the employees could not take anything home, they insisted on throwing everything away. It always seemed such a waste in a city where the homeless were starving for food on a daily basis, and I was just throwing away seven dollar sandwiches… ---
**Author:** ![5que](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/3bc359/32.png) [@5que](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/5que)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/74 "2005-10-24T16:36:25Z")
> [@Beware of Doug](#): > > Never seen that (Lewis is a comedian and _might_ have been joshing). But I personally have visited a Starbucks _kitty-corner_ from another Starbucks, at a very busy intersection in Vancouver. One outlet is small in size (probably put in first). The other is large, with considerable outdoor seating, sharing a corner building with a record store. No, I’ve actually seen photos of the Starbucks across from a Starbucks. I think it’s in Florida or Texas. You want some fun, come to my office building. Draw a line one block east, one block north, and one block west, and there are five Starbucks. ---
**Author:** ![butter\_pie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/aca169/32.png) [@butter\_pie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butter_pie)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/75 "2005-10-24T17:01:04Z")
> [@5que](#): > > No, I’ve actually seen photos of the Starbucks across from a Starbucks. I think it’s in Florida or Texas. [Yes](http://www.riveroaksshoppingcenter.com/shoppingguide2/starbucks.htm), they are in [Houston](http://www.riveroaksshoppingcenter.com/visitorinfo.htm). :smack: ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/76 "2005-10-24T17:02:31Z")
I don’t care for Starbucks–I am not a coffee drinker per se. I do enjoy meeting friends for coffee (I get Earl Grey tea) and natter. We tend to meet at Caribou Coffee(yep, another chain), not at any of the Starbucks in town (we have 2). Why? Maybe it’s because of the warm, welcoming atmosphere at Caribou–and the corner where little ones can write on a chalkboard and play checkers while Mom gets a dose of adult conversation. Some young moms of my aquaitance were asked to LEAVE on of our Starbucks, because their kids were “unruly”. I did not witness this, and so hesitate to come down squarely on the mom’s “side”, but I will say that any coffee house located in the suburbs should be prepared for kids of all ages. The mom’s involved all say that the kids were seated at a separate table and not acting up. \ I have sat at a Caribou for over 5 hours at one point and not a word was said to me about leaving. I like the atmosphere there–it feels more small town friendly, not contemporary hip. YMMV. What I dislike about Starbucks is the slickness and commerciality of it. I don’t want a “coffee experience”, I want a cup of tea! I dont’ want Saran wrapped mushy muffins that are overpriced and supersized–I want truly homemade (or at least baked fresh daily, on site) carbs. I am not all that interested in being hip–and I certainly don’t look for wisdom on the side of a Terra Grande! I like local, small businesses, and support them all I can. BUT I do respect Starbucks for it’s bennys to its employees. More businesses should do likewise (another thread altogether). But I ding them for throwing that food out–shame on Starbucks. Our local bagel shop gives leftover bagels every day to our homeless shelter–another reason I buy from them… ---
**Author:** ![Kythereia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e8c25b/32.png) [@Kythereia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kythereia)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/77 "2005-10-24T17:06:49Z")
Does anyone have Second Cup or Timothy’s World Coffee around their neck of the woods? Their drinks are far better than [del]Evil MegaCorporation of DOOM[/del] Starbuck’s drinks any day. ---
**Author:** ![bdgr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@bdgr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bdgr)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/78 "2005-10-24T17:21:42Z")
> [@5que](#): > > No, I’ve actually seen photos of the Starbucks across from a Starbucks. I think it’s in Florida or Texas. > > You want some fun, come to my office building. Draw a line one block east, one block north, and one block west, and there are five Starbucks. Around here, there is a starbucks in the same parking lot of a grocery store that has a starbucks inside of it. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/79 "2005-10-24T17:25:43Z")
> [@iluvurmom](#): > > I worked at Starbucks for a point in time in college. Everyday I would just throw away all the sandwiches and muffins away left over for the day. Their policy at the time was that the employees could not take anything home, they insisted on throwing everything away. > > It always seemed such a waste in a city where the homeless were starving for food on a daily basis, and I was just throwing away seven dollar sandwiches… That’s too bad. My local Starbucks bagss up all of the unused pastries and donates them to the local food bank - daily. ---
**Author:** ![TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/51bf81/32.png) [@TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TLDRIDKJKLOLFTW)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535/80 "2005-10-24T17:28:44Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > What I dislike about Starbucks is the slickness and commerciality of it. I don’t want a “coffee experience”, I want a cup of tea! I dont’ want Saran wrapped mushy muffins that are overpriced and supersized–I want truly homemade (or at least baked fresh daily, on site) carbs. I am not all that interested in being hip–and I certainly don’t look for wisdom on the side of a Terra Grande! Starbucks’ pastries are made fresh and delivered daily. They are not made _in_ the stores, but are delivered at 5am fresh and tossed or donated at 2pm. Every day. Seven days a week. They are not saran-wrapped. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > But I ding them for throwing that food out–shame on Starbucks. Our local bagel shop gives leftover bagels every day to our homeless shelter–another reason I buy from them… The vast majority of Starbucks stores donate leftover pastries to local food banks. It’s a corporate-wide program. Try asking your local Starbucks instead of just assuming. Learn first, form opinions later, not vice-versa. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-starbucks-we-dont-want-to-know-what-you-think/327535.md?page=5)