# Dear SUV driver: Not to put too fine a point on it ... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301 "2003-01-17T20:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Feynn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecb155/32.png) [@Feynn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Feynn)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/221 "2003-01-24T21:17:26Z")
I’m fucked… Seeing that I drive a Windstar and am looking to trade it in on a Suburban (and also drive a minimum of 300 miles per week) I guess I am truly one of the doomed or soon to be damned. Ya know… if they made a hyper efficient hybrid vehicle that would carry between 7 and 9 people on a regular basis plus a ton of shit I would be the first one lined up to buy it. Being that they don’t, my choices are limited. The mini-van is just too small for 7 adults and isn’t really designed for carrying building materials. When you think of it, if I was carrying 7 people in a vehicle that gets 20mpg ( Suburban diesel ) I am going to be moving those people more with more fuel efficiency than the one person in their sedan that’s getting 30mpg. Yeah, I’m one of those people who **needs** a vehicle with the capacity to carry lots of people and the ability to handle the weather and roads from hell. I also like to spend time out in the boonies and having an off road capacity is essential. We’ve got a ton of fresh snow on the already icy roads and many businesses have closed because people can’t make it in to work today. If I had my 4 wheel drive Suburban Assault Vehicle I’d **STILL** being staying home because the roads are a nightmare, visibility is poor, and it’s really fucking cold. It’s one of those “only travel if you have to” days here in the frozen north. ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/222 "2003-01-24T21:44:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\* > You’ve got to be kidding me! Let me get this straight. If they own any of those brands, and there is no trailer hitch, they are _automatically_ a poseur? You actually look at the vehicle, and say “look at that, no hitch, whoever owns that truck, is a tailgating lane switching fashion whore, who believes they are invincible when they drive.” > \*\* …erm , since when does poseur = tailgating lane switching fashion whore? I don’t believe my post made that connection. I think that if you drive a huge, jacked up 4 wheel drive truck based vehicle that is exactly the same as it’s less prestigious brand corporate twin, except for the large badge and the power leather ashtray you are certainly a poseur. Poseur = one who is so concious of image that they let it push them into driving a more expensive vehicle that can’t handle for shit on a smooth dry road but no fool in their right mind would wear muddy shoes inside, let alone take offroad. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/223 "2003-01-24T22:00:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by keithnmick \* > \*\*Poseur = one who is so concious of image that they let it push them into driving a more expensive vehicle that can’t handle for shit on a smooth dry road but no fool in their right mind would wear muddy shoes inside, let alone take offroad. \*\* You don’t necessarily have to take your vehicle off road to get good use out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/224 "2003-01-24T22:05:27Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*Rye chere: > > 1. They use more gas. > 2. They can roll easier than a car. (basic physics) > 3. Big vehicles tend to come out ahead when involved in an accident with smaller vehicles. (again, basic physics) and many SUV drivers buy them for the perceived intimidation factor. > 4. Oh, and the 'I can’t see around them argument. O.K. Same can be said for mini-vans. No one bitches about Mini-Vans, because minivan drivers haven’t given themselves the same reputation for being asshats. \*\* Heh… Okay, let’s compare two people. My mom has a Dodge Caravan. My friend has a Subaru Impreza/Outback Sport (Which is, apparently, an SUV): 1. The Caravan uses quite a bit more gas 2. The Caravan is significantly more likely to roll over in a crash than the Subaru. In fact, the Subaru is the most stable and nimble vehicle I’ve ever been in (Got to love that AWD and low center-of-gravity). 3. Both vehicles will probably fare about as well in a crash, but the Caravan will probably cause much greater damage to whatever it hits (And I’ve got a good story about the crash we’d been in, in the previous Caravan. Police got to the scene and were shocked nobody died). The Subaru posseses zero intimidation factor. 4. The Caravan blocks more vision than almost any SUV I’ve seen. The Subaru blocks less vision than any SUV I’ve seen, as well as less than most cars. He’s also most certainly not an “asshat.” For that matter, neither is anyone else I know that owns an SUV. And yet, it’s my friend in the Subaru that gets all the crap. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [January 24, 2003, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/225 "2003-01-24T22:14:52Z")
Ya know… I’m going to have to propose a new subclassification for these vehicles- the LUV. LUXURY Utility Vehicle. I think that most people, when they complain about SUVs, are really complaining about the lane-hogging, gas-guzzling, small-car-crushing Canyoneros with their own zip code. You’re right- these vehicles annoy me, too. They certainly aren’t SPORT Utility Vehicles- they’re designed to be as big as possible, and are targetted towards the reasonably wealthy. I drive, however, a Blazer. As SUVs go, it’s fairly small. It’s really just a pickup with a covered bed. When you think about it, a Jeep Wrangler is a Sport Utility Vehicle- do you have a problem with those? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/226 "2003-01-25T00:32:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by keithnmick \* > \*\*…erm , since when does poseur = tailgating lane switching fashion whore? > I don’t believe my post made that connection. > I think that if you drive a huge, jacked up 4 wheel drive truck based vehicle that is exactly the same as it’s less prestigious brand corporate twin, except for the large badge and the power leather ashtray you are certainly a poseur. > Poseur = one who is so concious of image that they let it push them into driving a more expensive vehicle that can’t handle for shit on a smooth dry road but no fool in their right mind would wear muddy shoes inside, let alone take offroad. \*\* My bad, so you look at the vehicle and say “look at that huge, jacked up 4 wheel drive truck based vehicle that is exactly the same as it’s less prestigious brand corporate twin, except for the large badge and the power leather ashtray. What a fucking poseur!” “Oh wait it has a hitch, he’s cool” ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/227 "2003-01-25T02:27:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*My bad, so you look at the vehicle and say “look at that huge, jacked up 4 wheel drive truck based vehicle that is exactly the same as it’s less prestigious brand corporate twin, except for the large badge and the power leather ashtray. What a fucking poseur!” > > “Oh wait it has a hitch, he’s cool” \*\* But wait! It he can’t see the back of the car, and notice the hitch, the driver must be a father raper! Crazy isn’t it? We have two SUV’s because of where we live. And what we do with them I drive a '93 Pathfinder. Great vehicle. Do a lot with it. Cost - $17g My wife has a '02 Grand Jeep. Another great vehicle and we do a lot with it. Cost $30g. The Grand has heated leather seats. It can, and does everything that my Pathfinder can do. The leather does not interfere at all. Oh, I think we could have gotten cloth seats. But not with heat. Let’s see what else — heated mirrors, lots of fancy computer suff , CD player. Is it a great vehicle? Yep, terrific. It does just what we bought it for. And we shopped for over a year. ---
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2003, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/228 "2003-01-25T05:18:25Z")
> [@](#): > > **"Oh wait it has a hitch, he’s cool"** Whew, safe! I have a hitch on my SUV- it weighs 87 pounds and it’s held on by eight 1/2" or 5/8" grade-eight bolts. It peeks through the skidplate of my 115-pound rear bumper made predominantly of 1/4" steel. How do I know this? I made them myself. I wanted to be sure the hitch was sturdy enough to tow the 4,500-pound 16-foot deck car trailer (with a winch) even when it’s loaded with, say, the 4,800-pound Olds (that has a 7.6-liter big block that gets about 14mpg.) The only accident I have _ever_ been in was when I was rear-ended at relatively low speed when I was waiting to turn. The other vehicle was an Explorer (gad, they ARE evil!) that suffered $2,300 in damage, compared to the lightly scuffed paint on my rear bumper. Why am I telling you all this? No reason, I just want to see if ol’ Punks can turn an even brighter shade of apoplectic purple. And I’m bored. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/229 "2003-01-26T04:53:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\*Listen carefully to me, here (or read carefully, actually): **THE ACT OF STEREOTYPING IS A BAD THING.** Actually, I’m sure you do it all the time. You see the high school chess club walking on one side of the street. You see a group of bikers walking on the other. Which side of the street do you pick to walk on? > [@](#): > > I did not compare stereotypes, you pusillanimous twit. I gave examples of faulty stereotypes in an effort to show you that **stereotyping is a bad thing**. Some stereotypes are spot on. For example, the general geekiness of people who pick net names based on bad guys in Lord of the Rings. > [@](#): > > It’s a thought-process (or lack thereof) used by small-minded people. Sauron, you’re far to hostile a person to really be concerned about peace and love and brotherhood and all that. You’re simply trying to pat yourself on the back for an imagined superiority. > [@](#): > > I agree that ownership of an SUV is a choice, and that choice is driven, in part, by personality. YOU are the one claiming that “many SUV drivers buy them for the perceived intimidation factor” and SUV drivers have “given themselves the same reputation for being asshats”. You have no cites for that, other than the weak rejoinder “everybody thinks so.” Sauron, making up fake quotes is grounds for being banned from the board. I will give you this once chance. But _don’t_ do it again. Do you understand me? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/230 "2003-01-26T06:42:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*Actually, I’m sure you do it all the time. > You see the high school chess club walking on one side of the street. > You see a group of bikers walking on the other. > Which side of the street do you pick to walk on? > \*\* So you’re a gutless chickenshit too, why am I not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/231 "2003-01-26T06:44:50Z")
**Sauron** I think it’s time to cut our losses and save our breath. The only way to exit the ignorance loop, is quickly. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/232 "2003-01-26T06:46:55Z")
Feynn, I agree that it would be nice if there were hybird or alternative fuel vehicles in a size that would suit your needs. Maybe someday soon there will be. World Eater, flags are not supposed to be used as decoration. In fact, it is improper for a flag to be fastened in any place it can be soiled (like the bumper of a car). Don’t just take my word for it; it’s in the US Code, Title IV Chapter 1, Section 1. [http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/index.html](http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/4/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/233 "2003-01-26T07:47:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > (like the bumper of a car). Yeah _on a car_ it may get soiled, on a SUV it’d be shiny _all_ the time!😃 ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/234 "2003-01-26T22:21:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*Sauron, making up fake quotes is grounds for being banned from the board. > I will give you this once chance. > But _don’t_ do it again. Do you understand me? \*\* Oh, look, it’s a baby Mod. Look, it’s squalling. Issooo wuggums gonna cry? Issoo wuggums going to try to dodge the issue? Dodge, wuggums, dodge. You’re pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/235 "2003-01-27T00:27:11Z")
Tony Montana, if your flag sticker is all shiny and clean on your SUV, then clearly you are not going off-road with it, so why exactly do you need it, pray tell? ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/236 "2003-01-27T01:32:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > \*\*Tony Montana, if your flag sticker is all shiny and clean on your SUV, then clearly you are not going off-road with it, so why exactly do you need it, pray tell? \*\* I don’t own an SUV, But I do have a fast car that never goes over 60MPH. I guess I’m making up for my small -er- size, if you will… ---
**Author:** ![MrMyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@MrMyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMyth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/237 "2003-01-27T01:33:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\ ***Sauron** I think it’s time to cut our losses and save our breath. The only way to exit the ignorance loop, is quickly. \*\* Hate to be a big ol’ I-told-you-so, but this genious doubled his post count on this thread alone. I know you fight for the enlightenment of all, but others fight simply to fight. ---
**Author:** ![MrMyth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19b73/32.png) [@MrMyth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrMyth)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/238 "2003-01-27T01:34:52Z")
If it wasn’t clear, the ‘genious’ I was referring to was **Pucky** , not **World Eater**. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/239 "2003-01-27T02:43:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E-Sabbath \* > \*\*Oh, look, it’s a baby Mod. Look, it’s squalling. Issooo wuggums gonna cry? Issoo wuggums going to try to dodge the issue? Dodge, wuggums, dodge. > > You’re pathetic. \*\* One thing I will not tolerate is someone inventing false quotes. I am not pretending to be a mod. If you post fake quotes, you _will_ get to talk to one, though. Understand, E-Sabbath? ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/240 "2003-01-27T02:45:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\*So you’re a gutless chickenshit too, why am I not surprised. \*\* No, how many times do I have to day it: I am _not_ an SUV driver. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301.md?page=13)