# Dear SUV driver: Not to put too fine a point on it ... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301 "2003-01-17T20:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/241 "2003-01-27T02:46:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*No, how many times do I have to day it: I am _not_ an SUV driver. \*\* … or say it. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/242 "2003-01-27T02:50:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by World Eater \* > \*\ ***Sauron** I think it’s time to cut our losses and save our breath. The only way to exit the ignorance loop, is quickly. \*\* The chickenshit hoists the white flag. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/243 "2003-01-27T04:08:33Z")
And not even any rantings about how my friend’s small SUV is so much more evil than my mom’s much larger van? I’m disapointed, I wanted to see some good disjointed rambling and ranting. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/244 "2003-01-27T05:12:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*Rye chere: > > 1. Big vehicles tend to come out ahead when involved in an accident with smaller vehicles. (again, basic physics) and many SUV drivers buy them for the perceived intimidation factor. > 2. Oh, and the 'I can’t see around them argument. O.K. Same can be said for mini-vans. No one bitches about Mini-Vans, because minivan drivers haven’t given themselves the same reputation for being asshats. \*\* Well, there’s two quotes, in one post, even! Let’s see if “Everybody thinks so” is in there. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\*Where did the popular perception of SUV drivers come from? Did the low-mileage crowd just decide to start spreading false rumors about them? Or did SUV drivers earn it with their behavior? \*\* Not an exact quote, but a very apt paraphrase. Of course, Sauron never said he was quoting you exactly, simply summing up your argument. Wait, you don’t have one. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/245 "2003-01-27T14:44:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > Actually, I’m sure you do it all the time. > You see the high school chess club walking on one side of the street. > You see a group of bikers walking on the other. > Which side of the street do you pick to walk on? Actually, you’re completely incorrect. Heck, I was the one responsible for bringing the high-school chess club and the biker gang together. They both worked security at the Altamont World Chess Championship. > [@](#): > > Some stereotypes are spot on. > For example, the general geekiness of people who pick net names based on bad guys in Lord of the Rings. Please explain exactly how “geeky” I am. I’m curious to hear this. Remember the “stereotype” discussion we had earlier? > [@](#): > > Sauron, making up fake quotes is grounds for being banned from the board. > I will give you this once chance. > But _don’t_ do it again. Do you understand me? Perhaps you remember these jewels: > [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Pucky Schumer on 1/23/03 at 7:10 p.m._ > many SUV drivers buy them for the perceived intimidation factor. > 4. Oh, and the 'I can’t see around them argument. O.K. Same can be said for mini-vans. No one bitches about Mini-Vans, because minivan drivers haven’t given themselves the same reputation for being asshats. I’m seeing no difference whatsoever in what you posted and what I quoted. Wait, perhaps you’re referring to “everybody thinks so”? Hmm. That’s a stretch of Brobdingnagian proportions, but it’s within the realm of possibility that you have a point. To that end, I’m going to e-mail the mods, telling them that I might have invented a quote from another member in the process of summing up his/her argument. I will abide by their judgement on the matter. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/246 "2003-01-27T15:15:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > **Actually, you’re completely incorrect. Heck, I was the one responsible for bringing the high-school chess club and the biker gang together. They both worked security at the Altamont World Chess Championship.** You dodged the question. If you are so self-righteously set against stereotypes, then why don’t you take your next date to a biker bar? It _is_ a stereotype that a rough crowd hangs out there. But you insist that stereotypes are both invalid and morally wrong. > [@](#): > > Wait, perhaps you’re referring to “everybody thinks so”? Hmm. That’s a stretch of Brobdingnagian proportions, but it’s within the realm of possibility that you have a point. To that end, I’m going to e-mail the mods, telling them that I might have invented a quote from another member in the process of summing up his/her argument. I will abide by their judgement on the matter. Yes, that is precisely what I am referring to. You invented words I never said and placed them in direct-quote marks. If you come back and claim that a moderator said this is fine, then we’ll know you are lying. I would trust it if the mod posted it directly him or herself. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/247 "2003-01-27T15:26:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > Tony Montana, if your flag sticker is all shiny and clean on your SUV, **then clearly you are not going off-road with it,** so why exactly do you need it, pray tell? Wow, if things are this clear to you, tell me what I do with my car. The whole flag argument is pretty silly. Anyway, I rarely get muddy when I go 4-wheeling. Depends on the area you live in. There are lots of other uses for an SUV besides 4-wheeling. And no, a 4x4 car or wagon isn’t a good substitute. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/248 "2003-01-27T15:29:53Z")
I have e-mailed the three mods responsible for this board. I’m waiting on their response. I’m of the opinion that if you think I was quoting you directly, you’re also admitting that my description of the argument as a “weak rejoinder” is accurate. You really ought to stop with the stereotypes, because you’re just making yourself look more and more foolish. I actually **have** taken my wife to a biker bar near here. A couple we’re friends with wanted to go there, so we did. Had a good time. I used to work for the Red Cross (lo, these many years ago), setting up blood drives across much of central Alabama. One of the most successful blood drives I ever organized was near Gadsden and was sponsored by a couple of biker gangs. The daughter of one of their members needed an operation, so they wanted to hold a blood drive. It was great fun; they gave free barbecue to all the donors and did some bike safety stuff for the kids who were there. Tell you what; I’ll quit posting to this thread if you can tell me, without a shadow of a doubt and with no prevarication whatsoever, that the SUV driver was at fault in the accident you described in the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/249 "2003-01-27T15:31:05Z")
Sorry; the above post was directed at **Pucky Schumer**. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/250 "2003-01-27T15:33:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\* > Yes, that is precisely what I am referring to. > You invented words I never said and placed them in direct-quote marks. > If you come back and claim that a moderator said this is fine, then we’ll know you are lying. I would trust it if the mod posted it directly him or herself. \*\* [The relevant section:](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=106617) misquoting Falsely attributing a quote to another user, or modifying another’s post in order to cast him/her in a bad light, even if meant in jest, is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges. This does not apply to parodies to which no name is attached. ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/251 "2003-01-27T15:40:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > \*\*Tony Montana, if your flag sticker is all shiny and clean on your SUV, then clearly you are not going off-road with it, so why exactly do you need it, pray tell? \*\* You don’t seem to have a problem with me having a fast car with a big 'merican V-8. Why would I need such a car? After all I never go over 60MPH with it. I _could_ get by with a Yugo… ---
**Author:** ![Sauron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce7236/32.png) [@Sauron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sauron)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/252 "2003-01-27T15:49:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > misquoting > Falsely attributing a quote to another user, or modifying another’s post in order to cast him/her in a bad light, even if meant in jest, is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges. This does not apply to parodies to which no name is attached. Hey, Sparky, I’ve already e-mailed the mods. There’s not a lot to do until they respond. Have you re-thought your opinion of bikers, based on my previous post? The main rule of this message board is “Don’t be a jerk.” You might want to look into that one, yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/253 "2003-01-27T15:54:07Z")
I’m telling… You can’t, because I’m telling _first_… ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/254 "2003-01-27T18:59:46Z")
Christ this thread has gone down the crapper. ---
**Author:** ![keithnmick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90db22/32.png) [@keithnmick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keithnmick)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/255 "2003-01-27T22:07:37Z")
The power folding, leather crapper. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Robb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a183cd/32.png) [@Robb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robb)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/256 "2003-01-27T22:36:55Z")
> [@](#): > > The power folding, leather crapper. That’ll be a nice feature in the 2004 Outhouse 4x4. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/257 "2003-01-27T23:18:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Robb \* > \*\*That’ll be a nice feature in the 2004 Outhouse 4x4. \*\* Yeah but if it doesn’t have a hitch, you’ll be nothing more then a pretender to the throne. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/258 "2003-01-28T02:20:02Z")
Tony: I don’t really give a ticker’s damn what you drive, but gas guzzlers are NOT cool either, if you care about fuel efficiency. I have said that before, but since this is a thread about SUVs, why would I go off topic and talk about your car, or whatever you were babbling about? Enipla: One does not have to be psychic to comprehend how a bumper (and symbol of our country affixed thereon) would get dirty on an SUV. Tony claimed it wouldn’t get dirty on his bumper. I surmised that he wasn’t going off-road with it, which he has confirmed that he is not. Your issue was…? ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/259 "2003-01-28T02:45:12Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Sauron \* > \*\* > You really ought to stop with the stereotypes, because you’re just making yourself look more and more foolish…_\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CanvasShoes \* > \*\*I have to agree with the OP. I’ve lived in Alaska for 33 years. The vehicles most likely to be spotted UPSIDE down in the ditch after even an itty bitty snow?? > > SUVs or souped up “4x4” trucks. > > By a ratio of about 10 of those to 1 “normal” car. > > Of course, I do have to ad a disclaimer, Alaskan drivers are probably the worst in the country. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bup \* > \*\*… Well, anyway, I don’t want to get in the way of a good SUV rant. I hate 'em. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by alice\_in\_wonderland \* > \*\*See, around these parts, it’s the pickup truck drivers that are the total prick-faces. Not that all those who drive pick-up trucks are prick-faces - my dad drives one and does just fine. > > Just that 9 times out of 10 when someone’s doing something lame in their car, it’s not a car, it’s a pick-up. … \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by light strand \* > \*\*So you SUV supporters are trying to say that a single vehicle accident is probably _not_ due to reckless and/or careless driving? If it isn’t then what the hell is your definition of “reckless driving”. And remind me not to be on the road when you’re out. > > I too have seen the “_Snow means nothing to me, for I am in an SUV!_”[sub]insert maniacal laughter here[/sub] attitude. In fact I’ve even felt it myself when last driving a Blazer in a blizzard (That kinda rolls off the tongue don’t you agree). I think that far too many SUV drivers fail to realize that 4x4 does not mean that road conditions do not apply to you. …\*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan \* > \*\*Whee! An SUV thread! And just in time to take advantage of those new stats that show death rates 3X higher in SUVs! > > The “I love my wife and child, unlike you pikers, so I want them safe in an SUV” argument suddenly takes a lethal shot… \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by miatachris \* > \*\*Oh, the sweet, sweet, revenge of the sight of the ditches and shoulders filled with the great untutored who thought they could _buy_ what may only be learned. It truly perks me up to see the idiot SUV population literally left on the side of the road to scream impotently into cellphones that were themselves almost useless due to severe cell system overload. > > I can remember a Rav4, a Trooper, and what looked like an Acura SUV all unable to climb a hill I went up with ease. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JeffB \* > \*\*A point of clarification: it’s more likely the the SUV driver was trying to run over the group of baby ducklings than trying to avoid them. We hate them ducklings. \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\*…for a good perspective on the merits? of SUVs! Not only are these things big and hard to handle, but they ROLL OVER quite a bit! The worst one is the FORD Explorer-and most SUV rollovers are fatal for the driver. > I don’t see why anyone wants one of these pigs-unless you have 15 children to transport. What really concerns me-at a time when we should be LESSENING our dependence on Middle-Eastern oil, instead we are selling our souls to the devil! > Finally, when a big SUV collides with a small car, the results are usually fatal for the car driver-not something to be proud about \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by OpalCat \* > \*\*No, get it right! Sheesh. > > He’s a FARKING MORON for the way he drives. > He is a DICKWEED because he did it in an SUV. > > Got it? \*\* Ball’s in your court, Sauron ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/260 "2003-01-28T03:03:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sauron \* > **You really ought to stop with the stereotypes, because you’re just making yourself look more and more foolish. I actually have taken my wife to a biker bar near here. A couple we’re friends with wanted to go there, so we did. Had a good time.** You went to a biker bar **once?** If you had a good time, why not go back there all the time? Maybe because you realize that there is something to the reputation that such places have. Sure it’s a stereotype, but the stereotype started somewhere – and not when they were on their best behavior for a blood drive. I’m betting that you usually attempt to avoid “the bad side of town,” whatever town you are in. And that if you visited New York City, you’d stay out of certain neighborhoods, especially at night. If you do, we can call you a hypocrite for putting stock in stereotypes (because you might actually go there _once_ and nothing happens). If you don’t, we can call you foolish, especially if you put your family’s safety on the line so you can flash that sense of moral smugness around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301.md?page=14)