# Dear SUV driver: Not to put too fine a point on it ... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 17, 2003, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301 "2003-01-17T20:52:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2003, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/101 "2003-01-19T20:10:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Mermaid \* > \*\*I like pickles. \*\* Must be sea pickles. ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2003, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/102 "2003-01-19T21:23:45Z")
…for a good perspective on the merits? of SUVs! Not only are these things big and hard to handle, but they ROLL OVER quite a bit! The worst one is the FORD Explorer-and most SUV rollovers are fatal for the driver. I don’t see why anyone wants one of these pigs-unless you have 15 children to transport. What really concerns me-at a time when we should be LESSENING our dependence on Middle-Eastern oil, instead we are selling our souls to the devil! Finally, when a big SUV collides with a small car, the results are usually fatal for the car driver-not something to be proud about ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/103 "2003-01-19T21:30:12Z")
I miss my Bronco,that thing weighed in at 5,550 lbs,had a big ameddican 351 v-8 and simply clawed up steep muddy inclines… ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2003, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/104 "2003-01-19T22:18:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MrMyth \* > \*\*My SUV’s exhaust smells like cat food. \*\* Hmm. Must be the pussy behind the wheel? ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2003, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/105 "2003-01-19T22:26:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\* > Finally, when a big SUV collides with a small car, the results are usually fatal for the car driver-not something to be proud about \*\* There are some SUV drivers who seem to drive with this fact uppermost in mind. I think it’s what attracts a certain type to the vehicle: “You’d lose in any collision, so you _have_ to get out of my way.” ---
**Author:** ![Tony\_Montana](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@Tony\_Montana](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tony_Montana)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2003, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/106 "2003-01-19T22:31:06Z")
Hey, I’m [ready](http://www.pbigold.com/html/aluminized_gear.html) Pucky… ---
**Author:** ![TVeblen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4bbf92/32.png) [@TVeblen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TVeblen)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2003, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/107 "2003-01-19T22:33:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > \*\* You display exactly the type of chickenshit behavior that’s expected from wannabes who have to hide behind the bulk of an SUV. > > \*\* Never underestimate the wrath or self-righteousness of an eager follower of the latest aversion fad. Grab yer pitchforks and flaming torches! _They’re_ evil and WANT to be evil! Don’t spout yer mealy-mouthed “facts” at us righteous victims! We KNOW everything we need to know about you, you ^%$#@, _just by the car you drive!_! (So convenient! So tidy! No fuss, no muss, no thought required.) Feh. No wonder it’s taking so long. Veb ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/108 "2003-01-20T00:33:14Z")
Jackmannii: What is your bloody point? How far a person drives was no part of my post. My post was about MILES PER GALLON, which does not change depending to how much you drive. If you drive less, bully for you, but guess what? You’d still get better mileage in a more fuel efficient car. So if you wanted to be REALLY patriotic, you’d drive your miniscule mileage in an efficient vehicle. Then you’d really be a good American. I drive 10 miles round trip per day in a car that gets 30mpg. Your point? By your formula, that makes me a better American than you. Does that mean you have to kiss my ass now? If so, I’ll forgo that and accept an admission that you’re talking crap instead, but you’re not that big of a primate, are you? What you’re doing is called RATIONALIZING. I know it’s a big word for a genius like you, but I bet you can get your hairy little hands on a dictionary. This is fun. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/109 "2003-01-20T01:07:41Z")
Rationalizing: Realizing that the product is legal, taxed out the wazoo, and absurdly expensive to fuel and maintain, but buying it anyway and not giving two shits about the people who would try to dictate what others drive. Did I get that right, **Rubystreak**? SUV owners aren’t spending your money. They’re spending their own earnings. So shut up already. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/110 "2003-01-20T01:31:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > **Jackmannii: What is your bloody point? How far a person drives was no part of my post. My post was about MILES PER GALLON, which does not change depending to how much you drive. If you drive less, bully for you, but guess what? You’d still get better mileage in a more fuel efficient car. So if you wanted to be REALLY patriotic, you’d drive your miniscule mileage in an efficient vehicle. Then you’d really be a good American.** Since this was apparently too subtle for you the first go-around, here’s one more try. It’s nonsensical to equate patriotism with one’s choice of a vehicle (how you know the fuel efficiency of the car I drive is a mystery, incidentally). If one wishes to make energy usage an important criterion of patriotism (a subject of legitimate debate given recent events), one would have to take into account a whole range of factors, including size of home, use of energy-saving devices, choice of fuel (solar?), thermostat settings, vacation habits, commute time, recycling practices or lack of same, family size, spending on consumer electronics and other power-guzzling devices, expanse of high-maintenance lawn…the list goes on and on. If the subject matter seems too complex and it’s “fun” to obsess about SUVs, rant away. Your potential audience has tuned out. ---
**Author:** ![Blown\_Injected](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a87d85/32.png) [@Blown\_Injected](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blown_Injected)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/111 "2003-01-20T04:10:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ralph124c \* > \*\*…for a good perspective on the merits? of SUVs! Not only are these things big and hard to handle, but they ROLL OVER quite a bit! The worst one is the FORD Explorer-and most SUV rollovers are fatal for the driver. > I don’t see why anyone wants one of these pigs-unless you have 15 children to transport. What really concerns me-at a time when we should be LESSENING our dependence on Middle-Eastern oil, instead we are selling our souls to the devil! > Finally, when a big SUV collides with a small car, the results are usually fatal for the car driver-not something to be proud about \*\* If some ass rolls an Explorer they were WAY out of shape and driving FAR beyond the legal limits. Suck the middle East dry!!! then worry about MPG’s 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/112 "2003-01-20T05:46:25Z")
I just returned from a five hour drive out to nowhere and back. About half of it would have been fine for cars. About a quarter of it was on pure ice, as in Zamboni country, up and down hills on a winding road which would not have been do-able by rear-wheel drive vehicles. About a quarter of it was in snow that would have stopped 2wd vehicles due to traction problems and cars due to ground clearance problems. My SUV is powered by a four-banger, so gas consumption is not out of line when compared with average cars. SUVs have their place. As huge urban assault vehicles, they are wasteful, just as any V-8 is, be it car or SUV. In the boonies, however, SUVs are a godsend, particularly in winter conditions. As far as SUVs hitting the ditches in the winter, I believe that if you put a bad driver behind the wheel, trouble may ensue, regardless of whether that driver is in a car or an SUV. Take the SUV away from a person who spins out this winter, and you will simply have that same person spinning out in a car next winter. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/113 "2003-01-20T06:17:42Z")
The Infiniti FX45 (SUV), according to the Feb. 2003 Car and Driver: \*\*70-0 in 160 feet. Roadholding .87 g\*\* And, a whopping 19 MPG on the highway. That sucks. It does weigh almost 4500 pounds. [The Bradsher Bunch](http://www.caranddriver.com/xp/Caranddriver/comparisontests/2003/january/0301_comparo_bradsher.xml) > [@](#): > > Fair warning to Keith Bradsher: The following may cause fits of road rage and an urge to add this magazine to your list of offenders outlined in your recent polemic against sport-utility vehicles, High and Mighty — SUVs: The World’s Most Dangerous Vehicles and How They Got That Way. > Featured in this Comparo > > GMC Envoy SLT > Land Rover Discovery SE > Lincoln Aviator > Volvo XC90 T6 > BMW X5 3.0i > Acura MDX > Lexus GX470 > Volkswagen Touareg > > This disclaimer is offered because the ensuing test will (1) confirm why SUVs remain a powerful and growing segment of the passenger-car market and (2) **explain how they are getting better in the areas of efficiency, versatility, and overall appeal to the driving public, including the demographically anointed elites who read Bradsher’s periodic fulminations in the pages of the New York Times against sport-utes and the demimonde who drive them.** (bolding mine) As SUVs get more advanced and carlike, the complaining takes on a sort of shrill nuttiness. ---
**Author:** ![Phoenix\_Dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Phoenix\_Dragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phoenix_Dragon)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/114 "2003-01-20T08:16:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Pucky Schumer \* > **Some people (not you) have the balls to stick by their opinions when faced with authority figures. You display exactly the type of chickenshit behavior that’s expected from wannabes who have to hide behind the bulk of an SUV.** Speaking of bulk, you should have your skull examined. That can’t be healthy… ---
**Author:** ![samarm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4da419/32.png) [@samarm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samarm)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/115 "2003-01-20T09:06:34Z")
Can’t we all just get along? Some drivers are assholes, no matter what they drive. I don’t see why everyone picks on SUVs as the root of all evil. SUVs do have a pupose, so what if not everyone uses them to drive in and out of ditches? By the way, anyone else got this song in their heads: “say I’m the only bee in your bonnet, make a little bird house in your soul…” ? ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/116 "2003-01-20T09:23:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tony Montana \* > \*\*Hey, I’m [ready](http://www.pbigold.com/html/aluminized_gear.html) Pucky… \*\* Talk about four words I never wanted to hear … ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/117 "2003-01-20T19:05:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by samarm \* > \*\*Can’t we all just get along? > > Some drivers are assholes, no matter what they drive. I don’t see why everyone picks on SUVs as the root of all evil. > > SUVs do have a pupose, so what if not everyone uses them to drive in and out of ditches? > > By the way, anyone else got this song in their heads: “say I’m the only bee in your bonnet, make a little bird house in your soul…” ? \*\* Samarm: Thank you for injecting some decency into a thread that has become largely a flamefest. (Though I’m the one who _started_ the flamefest with a rant about a driver.) I agree that some drivers are jerks no matter what vehicles they drive. SUVs in and of themselves are not the root of all evil. Technology is value neutral. It’s what you do with the technology that counts. My peeve is people who insist on buying these things for all the wrong reasons and then don’t learn how to operate them properly. For people in areas who really need 4WD or offroad capability, I don’t have a problem with that. ---
**Author:** ![Pucky\_Schumer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/74df32/32.png) [@Pucky\_Schumer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pucky_Schumer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/118 "2003-01-20T19:08:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jackmannii \* > \*\*If the subject matter seems too complex and it’s “fun” to obsess about SUVs, rant away. Your potential audience has tuned out. \*\* You act as though the issue is solely up to potential SUV buyers, as if voters and lawmakers have no say. We do. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/119 "2003-01-20T19:29:00Z")
**Pucky** , the voters have had their say, as they are also consumers and purchases of SUVs are the fastest growing segment in the automobile market. It seems you have been voted down by the very people you’re pleading with for help. As for the lawmakers, banning SUVs is as close to impossible as anything can be, and voting for such a ban would be political suicide. Not to mention that they like them as much as most everybody else. Face it, **Pucky**. You lose. ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2003, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301/120 "2003-01-20T19:35:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Rubystreak \* > \*\*World Eater: Christ I’m a fucking idiot? Is that your most articulate response? Which part of my post don’t you believe? The shitty gas mileage that SUVs get? I can cite, if you wish: > > [http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm](http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/findacar.htm) > > That’s a US Department of Energy website, listing the mpg of a 2002 Chevy Blazer. Want more? > > [http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/oildep.shtml](http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/oildep.shtml) > > We’re at the mercy of OPEC, who controls the vast majority of the world’s oil reserves. You don’t mind giving those guys your money, fine, but would you let them date your sister? > > Jackmanii: Huh? I’m a mental midget b/c I pointed out that there’s a contradiction inherent in strapping a flag on a vehicle that puts more money in the pockets of America’s enemies? Sorry if that smarts, but it’s true. All the blustering insults in the world don’t change it either. > > To be fair (shocking, I know): the SUVs are getting better mileage due to increased pressure from the government and consumers. However, many of them, esp. earlier models, leave a lot to be desired. If that doesn’t bother you, fine, but waving a flag doesn’t make you a patriot. \*\* With the point of view from your previous post you sure as hell are an idiot in my book. Not much else to say, as **Jackmanii** pretty much summed up my response to you verbatim. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-suv-driver-not-to-put-too-fine-a-point-on-it/149301.md?page=7)