# Dear Wiccans: get over yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968 "2009-06-16T17:55:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/41 "2009-06-16T22:02:47Z")
> [@](#): > > Johnny Angel What is being pretended is that they ever had an honest intention of discussing the topic of the occult rather than just coming in to laugh at the Woo. I don’t think anybody pretended such a thing here. This thread is pretty much just a scoff fest. Anyway, if you’re a VVican yourself, probably you enjoy being persecuted. So, you know, you’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/42 "2009-06-16T22:05:09Z")
Heck, I remember a few years back we had a guy who disliked both “sceptics” and “skeptics”, though he thought the latter were more harshly hostile to the world of psi. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/43 "2009-06-16T22:05:56Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, these aren’t the Druids you are looking for? Hilariousk. ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/44 "2009-06-16T22:07:41Z")
Can we go back to discussing strategies for the OP to get the girl into bed? Or on a date or something? You guys are such killjoys sometimes. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/45 "2009-06-16T22:14:57Z")
[QUOTE=smiling bandit;11249119Second, you annoying people who claim you’re “witches” and talk about earth magic and Gaia and insist on spelling “magic” with a “k” are full of it.[/QUOTE] The corollary in alt med circles are the people who refer to dis-ease (the hyphen is intentional as well as moronic). Then again, I enjoy a good bash upon the woo. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/46 "2009-06-16T22:17:38Z")
I scoff on your scoffing. I scoff on your tie. I scoff at your flaws. I’m a scoffflaw. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/47 "2009-06-16T22:21:52Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > As soon as someone can prove that magick is different from magic (i.e., actual eldritch powers versus cleverly crafted illusions), I’ll cease scoffing at them for spelling it differently. > > Not holding my breath, though. Of course they’re different. Magic, as defined as “the use of slight of hand and misdirection to create illusionary effects,” is real. Magick, as defined as “the manipulation of supernatural or paranormal forces to change the outcome of events,” is not. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/48 "2009-06-16T22:28:31Z")
- \*shuffles through thread, leaving scoffmarks \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/49 "2009-06-16T22:30:16Z")
> [@Johnny\_Angel](#): > > I don’t think anybody pretended such a thing here. This thread is pretty much just a scoff fest. Anyway, if you’re a VVican yourself, probably you enjoy being persecuted. So, you know, you’re welcome. Not particularly, no, but thanks for asking, and offering said service. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/50 "2009-06-16T22:38:03Z")
Correct me if I’m wrong, _smiling bandit_, but I believe you’ve mentioned on these boards that you feel that Christians are given an unfair amount of flack. If that’s the case, it seems pretty disingenuous of you to start in on someone else’s faith. Yes, even if you think it’s complete bullshit or raving lunacy, it’s still a faith. And, yes, Wicca/paganism in general has its fair share of gibbering idiots. I ought to know. I was raised in a nearly completely secular household, and self-identified as pagan/Wiccan-of-some-sort for a number of years (approximately from the ages of 16 to 23/24) before coming to the conclusion that I couldn’t be part of any sort of organized (or disorganized) religion, due to a stunning lack of faith and a tendency to go “cite?” It’s pretty fucking stupid to be uneducated about the beginnings of your faith. I was one of the few who wasn’t. But lots of people aren’t, and lots of people are just doing it 'cause it “feels right,” and aren’t particularly concerned with the history on it. While people making spurious claims are pretty dang stupid, the inherent faith really isn’t any sillier than Christianity. And, **Johnny Angel** the idea that a faith isn’t valid until someone has died for it is kind of crappy. I mean, jeez. I know that there are a shit-ton of idiot pagans out there, but I still don’t think that justifies such broad-stroking. Especially as the whole faith doesn’t have a specific doctrine; you can’t definitively say that any one pagan believes X or Y. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/51 "2009-06-16T22:45:24Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > And, **Johnny Angel** the idea that a faith isn’t valid until someone has died for it is kind of crappy. It really is. But that’s religion for you. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/52 "2009-06-16T22:48:40Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > I mean, jeez. I know that there are a shit-ton of idiot pagans out there, **but I still don’t think that justifies such broad-stroking.** Especially as the whole faith doesn’t have a specific doctrine; you can’t definitively say that any one pagan believes X or Y. Bolding mine - and I thought this whole thread was about broad stroking? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/53 "2009-06-16T22:56:46Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > Bolding mine - and I thought this whole thread was about broad stroking? More like attempted stroking of broads. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/54 "2009-06-16T22:58:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > More like attempted stroking of broads. 😛 Preciceimento! ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/55 "2009-06-16T22:59:08Z")
> [@](#): > > Buffy - No actual witches in your witch group? > > Willow - “No, a bunch of wanna Blessed-be’s! You know, nowadays every girl with a henna tattoo and a spice rack thinks she’s a sister of the dark ones.” Sounds about right. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/56 "2009-06-16T23:08:49Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Except that no one uses it that way. Right, you are scoffing at an accepted usage of a term amongst a particular subculture. Lots of people, millions in fact use ‘Magick’ with a K to differentiate it from card tricks. If you have a problem with that the problem is on your end. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/57 "2009-06-16T23:10:51Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The corollary in alt med circles are the people who refer to dis-ease (the hyphen is intentional as well as moronic). Actually in that one it serves a purpose again. Alternative medicine doesn’t have the mechanic approach like Western allopathic medicine does. It doesn’t look at every problem as having one singular cause, IE a disease, so dis-ease refers to a general state or lack of well-being, whereas disease refers to a particular pathology. As a massage therapist I might refer to some temporary muscular imbalances as ‘dis-ease’, but they certainly would not be considered a disease. It’s an useful term, I understand what is meant by it, and a lot of people use it that way. I don’t particularly use it because I know that pricks like you exist who like to bash things just cuz. 😉 But I know what people are saying when they say it. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/58 "2009-06-16T23:14:27Z")
> [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](#): > > I mean, jeez. I know that there are a shit-ton of idiot pagans out there, but I still don’t think that justifies such broad-stroking. Especially as the whole faith doesn’t have a specific doctrine; you can’t definitively say that any one pagan believes X or Y. There are a shit-ton of idiot skeptics too, many of whom astroturf this board as much as they can, but we don’t let them ruin the good name of skepticism. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/59 "2009-06-16T23:15:38Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Right, you are scoffing at an accepted usage of a term amongst a particular subculture. Lots of people, millions in fact use ‘Magick’ with a K to differentiate it from card tricks. If you have a problem with that the problem is on your end. This would work a lot better if the word “magic” didn’t _also_ mean “acts done by a mysterious magical power.” In order to draw a sharp distinction between “magic” and “magick” you have to misuse the word “magic” (by assuming that it only means its subclass “stage magic”). For those of use _not_ inclined to misuse the word “magic”, the word “magick” is a redundant and useless affecation. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2009, 11:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/60 "2009-06-16T23:20:20Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > This would work a lot better if the word “magic” didn’t _also_ mean “acts done by a mysterious magical power.” In order to draw a sharp distinction between “magic” and “magick” you have to misuse the word “magic” (by assuming that it only means its subclass “stage magic”). For those of use _not_ inclined to misuse the word “magic”, the word “magick” is a redundant and useless affecation. You are just declaring one definition ok and another not, even though the one you are claiming has no validity has been used that way for more than a century. Kind of like marriage no? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968.md?page=4)