# Dear Wiccans: get over yourselves **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 16, 2009, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968 "2009-06-16T17:55:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/121 "2009-06-17T18:08:40Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > Seriously! We’re not even talking about that anymore. We’re talking about freaking out the Mormon boys. 😃 Hot blonde Mormon boy on hot redhead Wiccan girl pr0n!!! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/122 "2009-06-17T18:09:42Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > Well, there are quite a few explanations that come to the obective mind: > > 1: You’re lying about it, which I doubt, and I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt hat you actually think this is happening. > > 2: You’re using selective data; i.e. you’re recognizing all the times that it happens and discounting the times it doesn’t. > > 3: You’re misinterpreting data; i.e. finding a cause and effect that doesn’t exist. Just because A happens before B doesn’t mean that A causes B. > > At any rate, it’s a very dangerous proposition using your own subjective data to prove your X-Men like powers. A much more objective viewpoint is needed. I’m not talking about X-Men like powers, a lot of people talk about this experience. They talk about being able to feel people staring at them. I’m talking about something normal. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/123 "2009-06-17T18:10:58Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Hot blonde Mormon boy on hot redhead Wiccan girl pr0n!!! That practically writes itself, doesn’t it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/124 "2009-06-17T18:12:16Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’m not talking about X-Men like powers, a lot of people talk about this experience. They talk about being able to feel people staring at them. I’m talking about something normal. I’ve seen it theorized that people do have a sixth sense of being able to tell when they’re being watched and or followed/stalked. So it’s possible it’s just the actual person who is in tune to you staring at them. Not a Supreme Being of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/125 "2009-06-17T18:19:27Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well then how come I can never stare at pretty girls on the subway? They always turn around to look. You’d think that there would be some large proportion that I could stare at unnoticed, but no. Amateur. Your skilled Creepy Guy knows that the way to stare at pretty girls on the subway is to stare instead at their reflection in the train windows. You can do that for hours and they’ll never look. I had a good Wiccan friend, and showed the original “The Wicker Man” to her whole group (it was the late 70s and few people had a VCR back then). Interesting experience. ---
**Author:** ![Eutychus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Eutychus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eutychus)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/126 "2009-06-17T18:21:43Z")
> [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > I’ve seen it theorized that people do have a sixth sense of being able to tell when they’re being watched and or I’ve seen it theorized as well. Just never proven. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/127 "2009-06-17T18:24:04Z")
Dear Wiccans, Calling your superstitions a “religion” does not make me respect them more. It cements the fact that I should _dis_respect them. Sincerely, OkayIAdmitItManyWiccansAreDamnHot ---
**Author:** ![Covered\_In\_Bees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7ab992/32.png) [@Covered\_In\_Bees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covered_In_Bees)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/128 "2009-06-17T18:28:03Z")
> [@Eutychus](#): > > I’ve seen it theorized as well. Just never proven. It at least makes more sense than a Supreme Being of some sort letting someone know they’re being stared at, right? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/129 "2009-06-17T18:29:32Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’m not talking about X-Men like powers, a lot of people talk about this experience. A lot of people talk about ghosts, Greys, a Sinister Jewish Cabal, Negro Cleopatra and Bigfoot. C’mon, you \*know \*the name of this particular fallacy. ---
**Author:** ![Merijeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f05b48/32.png) [@Merijeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merijeek)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/130 "2009-06-17T18:42:25Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > A lot of people talk about ghosts, Greys, a Sinister Jewish Cabal, Negro Cleopatra and Bigfoot. > > C’mon, you \*know \*the name of this particular fallacy. Is it the fallacy of the ghost of a dark grey sinister jewish bigfoot named Cleopatra? -Joe ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/131 "2009-06-17T18:46:12Z")
I think you meant the ghost of a dark grey sinister Jewish bigfoot \*Negro \*named Cleopatra. ---
**Author:** ![woodstockbirdybird](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/woodstockbirdybird/32/7905_2.png) [@woodstockbirdybird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/woodstockbirdybird)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/132 "2009-06-17T19:47:25Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I’m not talking about X-Men like powers, a lot of people talk about this experience. They talk about being able to feel people staring at them. I’m talking about something normal. Most people _think_ they can feel someone staring at them, but IIRC, there was a study done that disproved this - they had subjects who claimed to be able to tell, but did no better at knowing when there was an actual person staring at them than they would have by sheer chance. I thought it was part of one of Cecil’s columns, but my search didn’t turn it up, so if I remember I’ll try to Google it when I get off work. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Angel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d26b3c/32.png) [@Johnny\_Angel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Angel)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/133 "2009-06-17T19:56:44Z")
[QUOTE=mswas] Well then how come I can never stare at pretty girls on the subway? They always turn around to look. You’d think that there would be some large proportion that I could stare at unnoticed, but no. [/quote] Everytime a friend of mine gets a new car, I’ll be damned if there don’t turn out to be a lot of them on the road. I can’t explain why so many people run out and get a car just like my friend’s got, but it can’t be a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/134 "2009-06-17T21:21:49Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > That practically writes itself, doesn’t it. 😃 Yes, yes it does. > [@Covered\_In\_Bees](#): > > I’ve seen it theorized that people do have a sixth sense of being able to tell when they’re being watched and or followed/stalked. > > So it’s possible it’s just the actual person who is in tune to you staring at them. Not a Supreme Being of some sort. I didn’t say anything about a supreme being, being involved. > [@gaffa](#): > > Amateur. Your skilled Creepy Guy knows that the way to stare at pretty girls on the subway is to stare instead at their reflection in the train windows. You can do that for hours and they’ll never look. Yea I know that one, they still notice. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/135 "2009-06-17T21:29:09Z")
> [@woodstockbirdybird](#): > > Most people _think_ they can feel someone staring at them, but IIRC, there was a study done that disproved this - they had subjects who claimed to be able to tell, but did no better at knowing when there was an actual person staring at them than they would have by sheer chance. I thought it was part of one of Cecil’s columns, but my search didn’t turn it up, so if I remember I’ll try to Google it when I get off work. That’s just because of the the ghost of a dark grey sinister jewish bigfoot named Cleopatra fallacy. 😉 _tips hat to **MrDibble** _ A big part of the belief in magick I think is not taking reality quite as seriously as others do. I certainly feel sorry for those who believe in magick and take it incredibly seriously. Magick is about peeking through the cracks in the wall. Being able to explain it rationally doesn’t make it suddenly not magick. At least that’s my view. I guess a better way for me to describe it would be as ‘Kung Fu’ or great skill. For instance, I am very good at finding knots or trigger points in people’s muscles and just going straight for them after a cursory examination. I can’t tell you exactly how I know, but I know. It’s ‘magickal’, of course there is an explanation, I am just intuitively aware of the lines of tension in human myofascia, but still, it’s, ‘magick’. Magick IMV is the smoothing out of the gaps in our knowledge, the ‘art’ that is successful when science fails us. Now the distinction that’s important to remember here is that I am not saying that someone out there doesn’t know the scientific explanation, just that the individual performing the magick doesn’t necessarily. In otherwords it’s not about changing objective reality. Magick is related to sleight of hand in that it’s an illusion, but it’s not an illusion in that it is an attempt to trick someone, it is an illusion in that it takes advantage of the blank spaces on our maps. Magic and Magick are related, but one is a higher art form than the other. Call it pretentious or not if you want. Make fun of me all you like. Take the term, ‘Movie Magic’, for instance. That a piece of printed celluloid has the power to move millions who have never met one another to tears, is magickal. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/136 "2009-06-17T21:39:59Z")
So why do you need to throw the pretentious “-k” onto an existing word to describe this phenomenon? Every time I see it, I throw up in my mouth a little bit. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/137 "2009-06-17T21:49:28Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > So why do you need to throw the pretentious “-k” onto an existing word to describe this phenomenon? Every time I see it, I throw up in my mouth a little bit. Hahahaha! How IRONICK!! Because I find “throw up in my mouth a little bit” to be hackneyed and sophomorick. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/138 "2009-06-17T21:54:06Z")
I propose “ironick” as the word to use when something isn’t actually ironic, but “ironic” in the sense that people use it when they don’t really understand what irony is. And Kimmy, I do have a physical reaction akin to nausea when I see the word “magick.” ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/139 "2009-06-17T22:01:16Z")
**Shot From Guns** said: > [@](#): > > As soon as someone can prove that magick is different from magic (i.e., actual eldritch powers versus cleverly crafted illusions), I’ll cease scoffing at them for spelling it differently. **Miller** beat me to it. I would say one of them actually _does something_ - the stage magic. Whereas the other is just feel-good emotional pandering. **begbert2** said: > [@](#): > > This would work a lot better if the word “magic” didn’t _also_ mean “acts done by a mysterious magical power.” In order to draw a sharp distinction between “magic” and “magick” you have to misuse the word “magic” (by assuming that it only means its subclass “stage magic”). For those of use _not_ inclined to misuse the word “magic”, the word “magick” is a redundant and useless affecation. It’s not misusing the word, it is trying to make a distinction in internal definitions explicit. They _could_ do it by adding a predicator word to every use of the word “magic”, and refer to “stage magic” and “spiritual magic” to make sure everyone is always clear which distinction _they_ mean. Or they could adopt a convention of spelling one definition of the word differently, and use that consistently. And that’s what they do. Honestly, on the scale of things to scoff at wiccans and pagans and the like for, the use of “magick” is really low on the list. **JKilez** said: > [@](#): > > Wait… a hot Wiccan? Is that not an oxymoron? I’ve met a few hot ones. I’ve met a fair number of not so hot ones. YMMV, take what you can get. **mswas** said: > [@](#): > > I once convinced a girl that if she didn’t sleep with me I would fade from existance. She saw me fading even. Was that merely the act of suggestion, or did you have some other trick involved? **Johnny Angel** said: > [@](#): > > 1. Majique, who does lap dances and is putting herself through college. Now that’s some Majique to get down with. **Eutychus** said: > [@](#): > > I have to disagree with this to an extent; I think we’re dealing with a Hollywoodized stereotype here. I was involved with a Wiccan group in upstate New York for a short time. Before I had met most of the group I asked the obvious question “Do you do your rituals skyclad?” Her answer was “Trust me … most of us you wouldn’t WANT to see naked!” I’ve had conversations with nudists, and the impression I get is that the ones you least want to see are the ones most comfortable with their bodies. YMMV. Reminds me of a bit from _Grey’s Anatomy_ (I know). One of the doctors was a professional model and payed her way through med school by modeling. So she’s interning, and suddenly an ad campaign comes out where whe posed in her skivvies. To which she promptly gets a lot of ribbing, but one of the other ladies comments to her - “Why are you a doctor? If I had a body like yours, I’d go everywhere naked and let people give me money just to be in my prescence.” (Or some reasonable facsimile of that line. I forget the actual words, but definitely about just being naked as a life plan and career.) **FriarTed** said: > [@](#): > > … then I do think Wicca or some similar faith would be a pretty good option- Deity revealed through Nature- masculine & feminine, celebrating the seasonal cycles of death & rebirth, focusing either emotional or Natural-Divine energy through ritual, treating each other decently with an underlying motivation of Karma, not to mention an open-ended Afterlife & a freer view of sex. What Wicca/neopaganism have going is a reduction in judgment of others, an emphasis on accepting others and living peacefully. Do good, not bad, not because you will burn in hell, but because it is the right thing to do. Some of them even avoid the more preposterous elements, looking at the magick more as rituals and emotional/psychological tools to modify your own behavior and outlook rather than as actual supernatural experiences. **Mr. Miskatonic** said: > [@](#): > > It is time to link to the BEST SOMETHING POSITIVE COMIC EVAR! That’s great. But she left out one important incorrect detail - nobody in Salem was burned at the stake. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2009, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968/140 "2009-06-17T22:12:38Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > That’s great. But she left out one important incorrect detail - nobody in Salem was burned at the stake. “He.” And while that’s a great comic, I still maintain that the best _Something Positive_ ever was [the first one](http://www.somethingpositive.net/sp12192001.shtml). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-wiccans-get-over-yourselves/499968.md?page=8)