# Dear Woman video - pretty amazing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 8, 2011, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620 "2011-04-08T02:34:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/181 "2011-04-09T18:18:20Z")
Actually, based on this thread, the Female Perspective is “this video is awful.” ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/182 "2011-04-09T18:25:01Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Actually, I get this. > > I’m an atheist, but that doesn’t mean I can’t have some of that Christian energy of forgiveness and kindness, or that Jewish energy of dealmaking and cleverness. > > I’m white, and I can honor my white energy of leadership and dominance while also valuing that sensual, carefree energy that black people have. > > It’s okay to engage in stereotyping as long as your stereotypes are at least superficially complimentary and as long as you claim everyone can match the stereotype. > > What you’re not getting–what you really ought to get after reading all the comments to you in this thread from females–is that there IS no female perspective. Y’all aren’t a hive mind with a single perspective, any more than men are. This is a great post. I have to admit, I was put off by this video before I even watched it, based on the title “Dear Woman.” WOMAN. As if there aren’t 3 or 4 billion of us on the planet…we are all just one collective like the Borg. We think alike, act alike, you can hardly tell us apart. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/183 "2011-04-09T18:29:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I’m white, and I can honor my white energy of leadership and dominance while also valuing that sensual, carefree energy that black people have. “I honor and share with you my gift of intelligence, just as I honor and share in your gift of athleticism.” I’m really looking forward to the “Dear Negro” manifesto. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/184 "2011-04-09T18:51:18Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Actually, I get this. > > I’m an atheist, but that doesn’t mean I can’t have some of that Christian energy of forgiveness and kindness, or that Jewish energy of dealmaking and cleverness. > > I’m white, and I can honor my white energy of leadership and dominance while also valuing that sensual, carefree energy that black people have. > > It’s okay to engage in stereotyping as long as your stereotypes are at least superficially complimentary and as long as you claim everyone can match the stereotype. This thread just got weirder. ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/185 "2011-04-09T19:03:52Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > This is a great post. I have to admit, I was put off by this video before I even watched it, based on the title “Dear Woman.” WOMAN. As if there aren’t 3 or 4 billion of us on the planet…we are all just one collective like the Borg. We think alike, act alike, you can hardly tell us apart. :rolleyes: Well, obviously, they were talking to Stoid. ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/186 "2011-04-09T19:12:36Z")
I liked it (says the mid-50’s white man). Look, this video doesn’t obligate anybody who didn’t help make it to do or be anything. Whatever you think you are and whatever demographic you’re in, these people can’t change. It’s offering thoughts, sentiments, awareness. And I like it. There were elements I didn’t like. Worshiping people is an iffy proposition, and at their web site Hendricks and Ardagh say “We worship women here.” There are lots of spiritually minded bits in the video, too, which can be fine but can also lead to unwarranted ideas depending on how vague and how free of proof they are. There’s also a bit of airy soundtrack and etherial camera work that threatens to put the observer a bit off balance so we aren’t thinking our clearest. I can’t just adopt the whole thing on a full and practically literal basis. But it is an offering, and there is much offered that is very nice. As an invitation to being open on several points, I think it is splendid. There are certainly sweeping trends in human history, oppressions and wrongs, that this importantly recognizes and proposes to help improve. There are hurts that could stand more recognition. Whichever side of the consequent divide you in particular happen to be on, this does not change anything about your situation or your claims or what you must do. It only offers information and a sort of understanding, more or less of which you have the option to accept. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/187 "2011-04-09T19:44:46Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > I liked it (says the mid-50’s white man). > > Look, this video doesn’t obligate anybody who didn’t help make it to do or be anything. Whatever you think you are and whatever demographic you’re in, these people can’t change. > > It’s offering thoughts, sentiments, awareness. And I like it. > > There were elements I didn’t like. Worshiping people is an iffy proposition, and at their web site Hendricks and Ardagh say “We worship women here.” There are lots of spiritually minded bits in the video, too, which can be fine but can also lead to unwarranted ideas depending on how vague and how free of proof they are. There’s also a bit of airy soundtrack and etherial camera work that threatens to put the observer a bit off balance so we aren’t thinking our clearest. I can’t just adopt the whole thing on a full and practically literal basis. > > But it is an offering, and there is much offered that is very nice. As an invitation to being open on several points, I think it is splendid. There are certainly sweeping trends in human history, oppressions and wrongs, that this importantly recognizes and proposes to help improve. There are hurts that could stand more recognition. Whichever side of the consequent divide you in particular happen to be on, this does not change anything about your situation or your claims or what you must do. It only offers information and a sort of understanding, more or less of which you have the option to accept. I’m sure **Stoid** will be very pleased to see this. ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/188 "2011-04-09T20:42:14Z")
Some things I reflected on when reading this thread after watching the video. 1. What would be the resulting thread response to the video if the gist of the video reflected reality? Ie: their analysis is a factually accurate assesment of the current state. 2. People are responding with severe hostility and emotion. A lot of dishonest and aggressive statements are made completely unsupportedely. Like “Why don’t these guys DO something instead”. How do you know these guys aren’t doing something? From a culture who puts up with so much craziness, how can this provoke such a response? 3. Hang on… why would you want them to do something if you didn’t agree with them? “Why don’t these guys DO something instead”. That only makes sense if you actually agree with them at least on core issues. 4. The video basically represents what I would (with a bit of european snobbery) call: “The european green movement translated to American”. I: throw in religious wackieness (think creationism) then make it over the top and a bit weird. I’m a member. Of the european version, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/189 "2011-04-09T20:57:14Z")
> [@Sarahfeena](#): > > You’re not getting it. The statements themselves aren’t necessarily insulting, it’s the implications that those characteristics are inherently feminine qualities that’s insulting. If you are of the very curious opinion that there is no such thing as inherently feminine qualities,whatever they might or might not be, that’s a discussion unto itself. It appears that youare in fact of that opinion, and therefore if you are _insulted_ by the idea that particular (again, positive) qualities are being assumed to exist in you as a result of your having a vagina, well,I think that’s incredibly weird, but at least it’s consistent with what was actually said. > [@](#): > > And it’s not exactly a stretch to hear them saying “_As men_, our preoccupation with goals and results often has burnt us out”" to mean women haven’t been goal-oriented. No, it’s actually more than a stretch, it’s a ridiculous and unfounded assumption that you created out of nothing and decided to be offended by. > [@](#): > > If that wasn’t what they meant, they would have included women in the statement, to imply that it’s part of the _human_ condition, not just part of the male condition. No, that’s just you obsessing over your invented insults that you have zero reason to believe were intended. If someone says you look good in green, it doesn’t mean they are trying to tell you that you look like vomit in red. It’s bizarre to seize on compliments as insults in disguise, and doing so is 100% about you. So I’ll leave you to it. ---
**Author:** ![Truman\_Burbank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecc23a/32.png) [@Truman\_Burbank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truman_Burbank)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/190 "2011-04-09T21:10:10Z")
I’m holding my breath until the Dear Women make a video apologizing to all of the Dear Boys, whom the Dear Women turned into Bad Men who treat Dear Women with such disdain… I find it has little significance. Concrete action is a much better declaration. Gotta go wash the dishes… ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/191 "2011-04-09T21:15:21Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > What you’re not getting–what you really ought to get after reading all the comments to you in this thread from females–is that there IS no female perspective. Y’all aren’t a hive mind with a single perspective, any more than men are. Of course there is, just the way there’s a male perspective, and recognizing that there are general differences between men and women which lead to a general way of seeing things that differs generally between the sexes doesn’t mean anyone, especially the men in the video, believe that all women or all men operate as one giant hive mind. And really, I think you know that perfectly well. If not, just try reading these boards. You’ll find boatloads of conversations that acknowledge that men and women, generally speaking, have different perspectives, and very few of them feature Dopers freaking out at the suggestion and taking offense, particularly when the readily acknowledged differences are described in entirely pleasant terms. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/192 "2011-04-09T21:20:28Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > 1. People are responding with severe hostility and emotion. A lot of dishonest and aggressive statements are made completely unsupportedely. Like “Why don’t these guys DO something instead”. How do you know these guys aren’t doing something? From a culture who puts up with so much craziness, how can this provoke such a response? Pretty strange, isn’t it? > [@](#): > > 1. Hang on… why would you want them to do something if you didn’t agree with them? “Why don’t these guys DO something instead”. That only makes sense if you actually agree with them at least on core issues. Excellent observation. > [@](#): > > 1. The video basically represents what I would (with a bit of european snobbery) call: “The european green movement translated to American”. I: throw in religious wackieness (think creationism) then make it over the top and a bit weird. I’m a member. Of the european version, that is. Well, come on down and sit by me, fella. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/193 "2011-04-09T21:22:04Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > Of course there is, just the way there’s a male perspective Then I get to speak for all women when I say that you are wrong. Whee! I like this new rule. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/194 "2011-04-09T21:29:01Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > I liked it (says the mid-50’s white man). Maybe it’s our age (says the early 50’s white woman). We’re relics from the era of peace, love and understanding, man… > [@](#): > > There were elements I didn’t like…I can’t just adopt the whole thing on a full and practically literal basis. Aside from the NewAge overthetopitude, I’m disappointed by the view of female sexuality, but I recognize it’s part of the package and since it’s just a larger picture, no need to quibble. ---
**Author:** ![Meyer6](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cc9497/32.png) [@Meyer6](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Meyer6)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/195 "2011-04-09T21:37:24Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > But if you contend it is insulting because they implied, by saying all those positive things that they were actually conveying their belief that women aren’t capable, have no goals, are lame at math, don’t understand business or any other negative thing that was in no way whatsoever a part of what they said, you’re not “seeing things differently”, you’re making things up out of whole cloth to find things to be insulted by. And that’s wrong. As Sarahfeena said, the quote “I celebrate your ability to pay attention to what is here, right now. As men, our preoccupation with goals and results often has burnt us out…” is right there in their manifesto. It is not a stretch at all to read this as ‘you women are so good at just being happy with whatever you have right now - it’s only us men who have goals and desires for the future’. I’m sorry you don’t see that, but reading it that way does not require me to ‘make things up out of whole cloth’. > [@](#): > > Yes, I know…hence my quotes. And you weren’t “reminding” me of your words,you said the same words you said the first time as though it explained why you said it. > Rather than explaining why you chose to share your thoughts, you just “re-shared” the same thoughts. > Rather than explaining why you took the time to write it out and hit “submit”, you just rewrote it, and resubmitted it. > Rather than identifying what your purpose was for expressing your thoughts publicly, you just “re-expressed” the same thoughts. I just have no idea where you’re going with this. What reason do I need to write things down and share them? What reason could I possibly have? What explanation could there be for my words other than the fact that they are the words that express my opinion? This is a message board, sharing our thoughts is pretty much what we do. You seem to want to express your own thoughts without anyone expressing contrary thoughts, and that’s not going to happen on this board. You also seem to have a specific problem with me expressing my thoughts, and I’m really not too sure why. > [@Stoid](#): > > […] if you are _insulted_ by the idea that particular (again, positive) qualities are being assumed to exist in you as a result of your having a vagina, well,I think that’s incredibly weird, but at least it’s consistent with what was actually said. > It’s bizarre to seize on compliments as insults in disguise, and doing so is 100% about you. Stereotypes that involve positive qualities are still stereotypes, and I don’t know why you think that someone has to have some kind of personal problem to recognize that. There are lots of stereotypes that sound ‘positive’ on the surface - ‘Asians are all good at math’, ‘gay men are all very fashionable’, ‘black people are all athletic’. There are two problems with these: 1. They imply that everyone who shares an identifying characteristic also shares every single trait. Therefore, you don’t need to get to know the individual person because you already know what they’re like, right? 2. They imply that if you don’t share that characteristic, you’re not a real member of the group. A gay man who is not fashionable is not a ‘real’ gay man. A woman who is not nurturing and maternal is not a ‘real’ woman. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/196 "2011-04-09T21:39:38Z")
So what is the female perspective? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/197 "2011-04-09T21:44:35Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slit](#): > > So what is the female perspective? Duh, women are _intuitive_! They don’t have a “perspective”! They just _know_. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/198 "2011-04-09T22:12:18Z")
[Here](http://www.manboobz.com/2011/04/guys-youre-not-helping-dear-woman-video.html) is another (negative) take on the video. It’s funny and makes some interesting points. My divine feminine intuition tells me these guys suck. ETA: he goes into the reasons why, perhaps, people find these guys and their message so creepy, and discusses it in the context of DeBecker’s Gift of Fear. Seriously, its a good read, and short. Read it! ---
**Author:** ![Stoneburg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@Stoneburg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoneburg)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/199 "2011-04-09T22:31:16Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Duh, women are _intuitive_! They don’t have a “perspective”! They just _know_. I doubt anyone would argue, that the tone of this quote is sarcastic, and that the message is unconstructive. One may or may not think it is warranted, but to me it’s closer to the BBQ standards than the GD standars. Yet, nobody is reflecting on that fact. Let’s say you’re have liberal values, would you have this much vitrol someone for having conservative values? Or if you’re a Christian, do you get this riled up about Bhuddists? Is this weirder to you than say… Mormonism, Creationism or the Amish? Would you react the same if someone would say “Hey, I think those Amish guys have really great values, that’s a good religion. I don’t really think they’ve got all the facts right or that they’re perfect or anything, but they seem like really nice people and I was moved by some stuff they said.” Would everyone be ganging up on the Amish and its “supporters”? What if it was Muslims? Other sects (like protestant/catholic) of your own religion? The (coherent) ideas of those people fit into a bigger analysis that also predicts the kind of behaviour in this thread. So anyone in that video would probaly look at this thread and go: “Yup. That’s what’s wrong with this culture.” Getting their belief system confirmed. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2011, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620/200 "2011-04-09T22:37:34Z")
> [@Stoneburg](#): > > The (coherent) ideas of those people fit into a bigger analysis that also predicts the kind of behaviour in this thread. So anyone in that video would probaly look at this thread and go: “Yup. That’s what’s wrong with this culture.” Getting their belief system confirmed. There aren’t any coherent ideas, it’s all new agey twaddle. And of course their viewpoint would be confirmed by criticism, that’s the whole point. They are evolved, enlightened beings and the rest of the men out there are brutes. Why, not accepting their claims as gospel pretty much proves it, and if someone finds their nonsense to be offensive, well, that doubly proves it. It’s just crap, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-woman-video-pretty-amazing/577620.md?page=11)