# Dear Zero Tolerance. I guess it's comfy in there, but... **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 6, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831 "2001-06-06T19:15:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2001, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/1 "2001-06-06T19:15:53Z")
…you should really get your head out of your ass. Now. [From this article:](http://www.sptimes.com/News/051101/TampaBay/Student_removed_from_.shtml) > [@](#): > > A fifth-grader was taken from Oldsmar Elementary School in handcuffs Wednesday after a teacher found drawings he had made of weapons, school officials said. At this point, I can’t even begin to compose an effective rant about this. It is now officially impossible to use rhetorical absurdity to rant on the ongoing assheadedness of modern school policy. I am now waiting for the first story about some unfortunate kid in fourth grade who doodled a picture of a knife, is charged, and forcibly prescribed to take some anti-rage medication. It will include this paragraph: > [@](#): > > “That’s normal procedure in a situation like this,” Gleetguzzler said. “The primary concern was to make sure we get appropriate services for the child.” I expect it to take approximately two months from now. ---
**Author:** ![Zumba\_The\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/779978/32.png) [@Zumba\_The\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zumba_The_Cat)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2001, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/2 "2001-06-06T19:28:56Z")
And those are just the ones that make it in the paper. This stuff happens every day. Last year my brother (14 years old) had is locker, pockets and book bag searched. He was handcuffed and driven to the police station in the back of a police car. They tried to question him before our parents were even called. He was suspend from school for the rest of the year. (Actually missed two full days.) His crime? He checked out a school library book which had some violent drawings and a few threats about a girl in his class. He brought it to his teacher. The teacher thought the handwriting looked like his and had the police called. It took two days to get things cleared up. Our parents had to spend $600 on a lawyer just to keep him out of jail. He didn’t even get an apology when they caught the kid who did do it a few weeks later. ---
**Author:** ![Fionn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Fionn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fionn)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2001, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/3 "2001-06-06T19:36:50Z")
I agree about the unbelievable idiocy of zero-tolerance policies. I used to write for a campus humor magazine and plan to do so in the future. I would love to write a satire of the zero-tolerance situation, but it’s far too ridiculous to satirize. I’m afraid the second I wrote a story about a nine-year-old hauled off to jail for thinking mean things about a psychic teacher it would actually happen. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Zero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@Saint\_Zero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Zero)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2001, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/4 "2001-06-06T21:29:56Z")
ZT is insane for a great many reasons. I mean, what prevents malicious administrators from planting evidence and suspending people they don’t like? Nothing. ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2001, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/5 "2001-06-06T21:42:59Z")
From the other side of the pond, all I can say is that zero tolerance looks pretty similar to the new McCarthyism to me. It seems that school authorities have mistaken fear for respect, glad I don’t have to sweep up the bits. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2001, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/6 "2001-06-06T23:58:53Z")
Does anyone else suspect that at least part of the problem with violent youths is the systematic stripping away of their civil rights while the repercussions for any mistakes they might make are becoming more and more extreme? Thank God I got out of school back in the 20th century, before it turned into this Orwellian nightmare. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/7 "2001-06-07T00:18:38Z")
What scares me about it is kids being suspended for drawing a soldier, yet kids get picked on and harassed everyday-and the admin never blink an eye, it seems. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/8 "2001-06-07T00:43:20Z")
If you want to REALLY get discouraged, think of the sort of citizens that are being molded by growing up within this idiotic system. I really don’t want to think about the sort of nasty little pillock that becomes the ideal, model citizen when this sort of thinking triumphs. They’ll be running the retirement homes when WE’RE in them, guys. ---
**Author:** ![labdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/5fc32e/32.png) [@labdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/labdude)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/9 "2001-06-07T02:34:37Z")
[http://www.thisistrue.com/zt.html](http://www.thisistrue.com/zt.html) > [@](#): > > …suspended 6-year-old Seamus Morris under the school’s zero-tolerance drug policy. The drug? Lemon drops. > > David Silverstein, 13, was inspired to build a model rocket after seeing the movie “October Sky”, … School officials classified the toy as a “weapon” and suspended him for the rest of the year based on its “zero-tolerance” weapons policy. > > three students …playing with a water gun. According to the school’s interpretation of the state’s “zero tolerance” weapons law …the unnamed boys have been suspended. ---
**Author:** ![Sealemon88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Sealemon88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sealemon88)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/10 "2001-06-07T02:46:43Z")
I really can’t think of the words to describe how absolutily stupid ZT is. Thank God I’m not in the public school system any longer. Fucking facists. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/11 "2001-06-07T03:04:30Z")
…and yet, it keeps on happening. All of the outrageous violations of civil liberties, the absolutely bug-fucking insane behavior by those who are supposed to be teaching the children - none of it is causing mass protests, or backlash from the cow-like masses of Soccer Moms and Dads. Nobody seems to care about the abuses. So, it will not only keep on happening, IMO, it will get worse and worse. Until High Schools resemble gulags, with routine suspensions and bannings for thought crimes. SOMEONE came up with these policies. Why isn’t that person being horsewhipped in the town square for coming up with “drawing a picture of a knife means suspension” policies? And lemon drops as a drug? WTF? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/12 "2001-06-07T03:27:08Z")
You know, it’s a damn good thing these “Zero Tolerance” policies aren’t retroactive, 'cause if they were, I’d probably be serving one of those 587-year prison sentences judges like to hand down sometimes. I mean, I drew _countless_ pictures of spaceships–the great majority of which were clearly intended to represent big, powerful, violent, heavily armed star cruisers–tanks, warplanes, and mushroom clouds. _Many_ of these pictures included little stick figures being blown up and strafed and God knows what all else. I made paper death ray guns, and _brought them to school_. Hell, I made up mean-spirited little ditties about teachers I didn’t like, involving violent death of same. _In high school, I remember joking with friends about bringing a machine gun and opening fire on a school assembly!!!_ :eek: But you know what? I didn’t ever **do** any of it. None of my friends ever massacred anybody either. I turned out reasonably okay. I mean, I haven’t done anything seriously illegal as an adult–nothing they can _prove_, anyway. But, hey, I guess they should have expelled us all and locked us up and drugged us and probably given us all lobotomies. ---
**Author:** ![matt\_mcl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ab992/32.png) [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/13 "2001-06-07T03:31:49Z")
You realize what ZT is, right? As another poster said, instead of failing to deal with individual cases by ignoring them equally, now they fail to deal with individual cases by being equally draconian. I’ve probably mentioned thsi before, but I wrote [a poem entitled Knife Chant](http://www.crosswinds.net/~montrealais/art/poems/knifechant.html) on the murder of Matt Shepard in my second year of CÉGEP (junior college). It was written in a moment of extreme anger and contains fairly violent imagery. Well, thank gods I wrote it in CÉGEP in 1998 rather than high school in 2001. As it was, I got fourth place in a continent-wide creative writing contest and a fairly substantial cheque. Now I might have been expelled. I’m grateful for having skirted the leading edge of this ridiculous ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/14 "2001-06-07T03:39:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MEBuckner \* > **_In high school, I remember joking with friends about bringing a machine gun and opening fire on a school assembly!!!_ :eek:** We used to sing a song: \*On top of Old Smokey All covered in blood I shot my poor teacher With a .44 slug. I went to his funeral To make sure he was dead I took a bazooka And blew off his head\* I guess I would be classified as a trouble student now-a-days and expelled. Thank God I went to school back in the 80’s and I was _allowed_ to graduate with a 3.2 GPA. Where did I learn that song, BTW? From my sister who graduated with a 3.8 GPA. This shit is getting way, way, WAY out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/15 "2001-06-07T03:48:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by yabob \* > \*\*If you want to REALLY get discouraged, think of the sort of citizens that are being molded by growing up within this idiotic system. I really don’t want to think about the sort of nasty little pillock that becomes the ideal, model citizen when this sort of thinking triumphs. They’ll be running the retirement homes when WE’RE in them, guys. > \*\* So there’s two possible solutions to this problem as I see it: 1.) We start educating the little monsters right, and ditch all this “Zero Tolerence” stuff now. 2.) We all make a pact with one another to help the others kill themselves before they get put in a home! BTW what kind of name is “Gleetguzzler?” If that’s a legit name, I think we’ve found out why this person’s so whacked out. Can you imagine being a little kid and having a name like that? Lord! I thought _ **I** _ got picked on as a kid! With a name like “Gleetguzzler” that’s like hanging a sign around your neck which says, “Beat the dogshit out of me.” ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/16 "2001-06-07T03:56:34Z")
> [@](#): > > - > > I went to his funeral > To make sure he was dead > I took a bazooka > And blew off his head\* Ah, the bloody Ol’ Smokey. My school’s second verse was: \* I went to her funeral I went to her grave People threw flowers I threw grenades \* Child’s best interests. Feh. Slavery is freedom. War is peace. These people are making it very hard to stay an optimist. ---
**Author:** ![Drastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Drastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drastic)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/17 "2001-06-07T04:02:05Z")
> [@](#): > > BTW what kind of name is “Gleetguzzler?” If that’s a legit name… No no. The quote itself was from the article, “Gleetguzzler” was simply replacing the name of the moron responsible for the utterance with something more fitting, and in the agreement that creative insult-constructions are a good thing to strive for. “Gleet” is an interesting word, it sounds almost cheerful, until you consider what it means. It’s a bit obscure, and sadly so–it deserves wider use. ---
**Author:** ![Crunchy\_Frog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ebca7d/32.png) [@Crunchy\_Frog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crunchy_Frog)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/18 "2001-06-07T04:19:04Z")
And let us not forget “the Battle Hymn of the Republic” _My eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school We have broken all the windows, we have broken all the rules We have barbequed the principal and this is what’s so great: Our troops are marching on!_ Now we’re not just unrult, violent students: Now we’re \*militant unruly violent students. ---
**Author:** ![OpalCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/8edcca/32.png) [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/19 "2001-06-07T04:56:25Z")
row row row your boat gently down the streeeam throw your teacher overboard and listen to her scream Five years later swimming in the Delaware chewing on her underwear looking for another pair Five years later (mumble mumble mumble mumble) Old mrs|mr|miss [name of teacher] I guess this song doesn’t go over well these days? ---
**Author:** ![Felinecare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Felinecare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Felinecare)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2001, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831/20 "2001-06-07T05:00:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Crunchy Frog \* > \*\*And let us not forget “the Battle Hymn of the Republic” > > _My eyes have seen the glory > of the burning of the school > We have broken all the windows, > we have broken all the rules > We have barbequed the principal > and this is what’s so great: > Our troops are marching on!_ > > Now we’re not just unrult, violent students: Now we’re \*militant unruly violent students. \*\* Here was ours (1970’s) \*My eyes have seen the glory of the burning of the school We have tortured every teacher We have broken every rule And now we’re marching down the hall to see the principal Our truth is marching on Glory, glory, hallelujah Teacher hit me with a ruler Hit her in the ass With a piece of broken glass And she ain’t my teacher no more!\* [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/dear-zero-tolerance-i-guess-its-comfy-in-there-but/67831.md?page=2)