# death holds **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 14, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837 "2017-02-14T18:34:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jojopeewee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/8e7dd6/32.png) [@jojopeewee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jojopeewee)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837/1 "2017-02-14T18:34:35Z")
during world war 2 the Germans had a maneuver that would cause you to black out putting pressure on the artery on the side of the neck ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837/2 "2017-02-14T18:43:48Z")
I think you’re confusing Nazis with Vulcans. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837/3 "2017-02-14T18:43:52Z")
Welcome to the SDMB, **jojopeewee**. Which column is this in reference to? Can you post the link? It would be helpful in order for others to comment on the article. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837/4 "2017-02-14T19:02:43Z")
Is it related to [this column on “Ninja death grips”?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2509/is-the-ninja-death-touch-real) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837/5 "2017-02-14T19:11:01Z")
> [@jojopeewee](#): > > during world war 2 the Germans had a maneuver that would cause you to black out > putting pressure on the artery on the side of the neck This might be a judo choke, where pressure on the carotid sinuses and vagus nerve causes black out. That predates WWII by quite a bit. The study mentioned in the article seems a little weak for a Cecil cite. Did the volunteers know the result of the alleged kyusho strike was supposed to be a knockout? For a valid test, the subjects should be completely unaware of the expectations of the strikers, and thus eliminate suggestion as a cause. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837/6 "2017-02-14T22:34:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This might be a judo choke, where pressure on the carotid sinuses and vagus nerve causes black out. That predates WWII by quite a bit. That’s what it sounds like to me. ---
**Author:** ![Ken001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/43a26b/32.png) [@Ken001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ken001)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837/7 "2017-02-14T23:17:10Z")
Choke holds are used by the military and the police to subdue people. Knock them out, not necessarily kill them. The police are a bit nervous about them. Hence the case of Eric Garner: > **[Killing of Eric Garner](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Eric_Garner)** > > On July 17, 2014, Eric Garner, a 43-year-old African-American man, was killed in the New York City borough of Staten Island by Daniel Pantaleo, a New York City Police Department (NYPD) officer, after the latter put him in a prohibited chokehold while arresting him. Video footage of the incident generated widespread national attention and raised questions about the use of force by law enforcement. > NYPD officers approached Garner on July 17 on suspicion of selling single cigarettes from packs w... ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2017, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-holds/779837/8 "2017-02-15T00:51:49Z")
There are [two ways to choke out](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chokehold) - an air choke and a blood choke. Air choke is cutting off the windpipe. In order to do so, it requires traumatic obstruction - crushing the trachea. Blood chokes cut off the blood supply to the brain. They can be done non-traumatically. However, you do need to limit the length of time you hold the choke. From the picture on the Eric Garner wikipedia page, it appears Officer Pantaleo did not apply a proper blood choke. His elbow is not directly below the chin. That places part of the forearm across the trachea. The medical examiner’s report shows there was no damage to the windpipe or neck bones. However, Eric Garner suffered from asthma. He was jumped on, held down, and then left lying face down on the pavement. After he passed out, he was rolled onto his side. He was still breathing on his own, so CPR was not performed. He suffered a heart attack in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. It appears that his asthma was triggered by being grabbed and held down, possibly exacerbated by positional asphyxia - lying on his chest making breathing more difficult. He also had heart disease, contributing to the heart attack.