# Death in Yosemite: what should the Park Service do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666 "2007-06-20T02:18:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/1 "2007-06-20T02:18:12Z")
A horrifying moment in one of my favorite places-- [hiker dies in fall from Half Dome](http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/19/BAGHNQHLEV1.DTL). The [outdoor writer’s blog](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sgreen/detail?blogid=40&entry_id=17696) has a couple of eyewitness accounts and a lively discussion. Beyond marking the trail with clear warning signs, I don’t think the NPS should do anything. When you enter a wilderness, you’re on your own. If you’ve hiked into one, you’ve seen the signs. Putting a ranger at every spot where someone could die in a National Park would require a major staffing increase, to say the least. As far as shutting the trail down, no way. I’ve been up there a couple of times, and I wouldn’t deny that experience to anyone who wanted to accept the risks. (Mods: feel free to move this to IMHO if necessary) ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/2 "2007-06-20T02:27:28Z")
National Parks aren’t really “wilderness”, they are managed extensively for recreation and wildlife. Many parks like Yosemite, Yellowstone, Glacier, and the Grand Canyon have some serious tourist infrastructure. So in many areas you do need to manage for safety. However, hikes like Half Dome are traditional favorites because they are difficult and challenging. It would change the nature of the area to add significant safety features. In fact, I would favor removing the cables to eliminate the more casual hikers. ---
**Author:** ![Chief\_Pedant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@Chief\_Pedant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chief_Pedant)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/3 "2007-06-20T02:36:56Z")
[QUOTE=blondebear] A horrifying moment in one of my favorite places-- [hiker dies in fall from Half Dome](http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/06/19/BAGHNQHLEV1.DTL). The [outdoor writer’s blog](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sgreen/detail?blogid=40&entry_id=17696) has a couple of eyewitness accounts and a lively discussion. Beyond marking the trail with clear warning signs, I don’t think the NPS should do anything. When you enter a wilderness, you’re on your own. If you’ve hiked into one, you’ve seen the signs. Putting a ranger at every spot where someone could die in a National Park would require a major staffing increase, to say the least. As far as shutting the trail down, no way. I’ve been up there a couple of times, and I wouldn’t deny that experience to anyone who wanted to accept the risks. (Mods: feel free to move this to IMHO if necessary) [/QUOTE] There may well be a few ways to make it safer, as mentioned in the cites. Making it safer will have a secondary effect of encouraging even more marginally-qualified folks to try it, however. Overall the number of deaths has not been inappropriate. Climb at your own risk. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/4 "2007-06-20T02:53:14Z")
[QUOTE=Telemark] National Parks aren’t really “wilderness”, they are managed extensively for recreation and wildlife. [/QUOTE] In the case of the trail up to Half Dome, it’s well-trammeled, and I wouldn’t really consider it “wilderness”. But it is designated as such. For those not familiar with the sign I mentioned, here’s a excerpt from the sign policy of the Wilderness Act of 1964: > [@](#): > > ``` > 10. Inform wilderness visitors that they face inherent risks of adverse weather conditions, isolation, physical hazards, and lack of rapid communications, and that search and rescue may not be as rapid as expected in an urban setting in all publications and personal contacts. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/5 "2007-06-20T03:08:07Z")
A lot of suggestions people are making in the comments section of the second link are retarded. Make everyone take an education class? :rolleyes: If the park keeps getting crap about it, they ought to take the cables down. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/6 "2007-06-20T04:49:07Z")
[QUOTE=blondebear] But it is designated as such. For those not familiar with the sign I mentioned, here’s a excerpt from the sign policy of the Wilderness Act of 1964: [/QUOTE] Does the Wilderness Act apply to National Parks at all? Wilderness Areas are part of National Forests, which are managed by the Dept of Agriculture, not the National Parks which are managed by the Dept of the Interior. ---
**Author:** ![blondebear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blondebear/32/1022_2.png) [@blondebear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blondebear)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/7 "2007-06-20T11:28:25Z")
Another excerpt from the Wilderness act: > [@](#): > > Within ten years after the effective date of this Act the Secretary of the Interior shall review every roadless area of five thousand contiguous acres or more in the _ **national parks, monuments and other units of the national park system** _ and every such area of, and every roadless island within, the national wildlife refuges and game ranges, under his jurisdiction on the effective date of this Act and shall report to the President his recommendation as to the suitability or nonsuitability of each such area or island for preservation as wilderness. The point I was trying to make in the OP was that when a visitor undertakes the Half Dome hike, they pass a big sign that essentially says “you’re in the wilderness now, buddy”. The casual hiker may choose to ignore the sign, but they do so at their own peril. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/8 "2007-06-20T13:12:04Z")
[QUOTE=blondebear] The point I was trying to make in the OP was that when a visitor undertakes the Half Dome hike, they pass a big sign that essentially says “you’re in the wilderness now, buddy”. The casual hiker may choose to ignore the sign, but they do so at their own peril. [/QUOTE] Yes, but “wilderness” and “Wilderness” are two different things. Federally designated Wilderness has specific meaning and rules/regs. There are warning signs everywhere, but they only go so far. I’m a huge fan of personal responsibility, but national parks are full of people who don’t know what they are doing and don’t know enough to understand the risks. Removing the cables would prevent people from going up Half Dome more then any sign. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2007, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-in-yosemite-what-should-the-park-service-do/408666/9 "2007-06-20T13:22:20Z")
I fondly remember a sign in Red Rocks west of Vegas that said essentially: **People die here every year, bub. Do your best not to be one of them.** I thought that was an appropriate approach. Fer crying out loud - folks die at the Grand Canyon every year. Did they not get the point about the big hole in the ground? And in Yellowstone people try to pet the cute buffalo, or boil themselves in hot springs. I agree that in all such cases the NPS is better off simply posting a clear warning - perhaps even orally instructing folks entering the park to read safety materials they hand out, than trying to take any extra precautionary measures. Once they take special measures, they will be held responsible for maintaining them, and criticized if they do not go far enough. A few years back we went to Starved Rock - a state park in IL. When I was a kid, you used to climb to the top of the rock essentially scramling over rocks like a mountain goat. Now, they have “decked” over the entire path, so it pretty much has all of the interest of stepping out on suburban a back deck. Not sure if this was to promote access, ensure safety, or preserve the environment, but it definitely made it a less enjoyable experience in my mind.