# 'Death of a Once Great City': is New York City Really This Bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 1, 2018, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112 "2018-07-01T20:19:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/21 "2018-07-02T01:46:14Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I disagree- unlike the other systems you mentioned (and most public transit systems in general) the NYC subway serves every station 24 hours a day. When you’re deciding which subway/public transit system is better or worse, yes, you have to consider reliability and cleanliness- but you also have to consider other issues. For example, in 2016 27.5% of Chicago households did not have access to a car. In NYC the number is 54.5%. I’m not going to guess which way the relationship runs, but clearly a city where over half of households do not have access to cars is going to need a different system than one where slightly over a quarter don’t. If I were running designing a subway to meet NYC’s needs right now, I would absolutely prioritize the over five million daily riders who are taking the subway to work at all hours of the day and night\* over the ninety million _a year_ who fly out of JFK and LaGuardia in 2016. The only reason airport access would not be important to me is if I were a resident who owned a car. As a visitor it’s obvious, and if I didn’t have a car I’d also want airport access. > [@](#): > > I’m not even sure what you mean by “too many stops” In Manhattan there are so many stops that it seems – probably incorrectly – that I could make just as good a time walking. It’s probably an artifact of thinking that it is slower because I’m just standing around doing nothing as the train lurches forward and doesn’t even fully accelerate before slowing down again. ETA: you do have a point with regards to 24 hour access. It’s never made me have to change my plans drastically, though, so I don’t weigh it in the rankings. ---
**Author:** ![senoy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@senoy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/senoy)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/22 "2018-07-02T01:47:42Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > So what? > This isn’t about you - it’s about **senoy** who said that NYC was overrated, which implies that he has a rating system. I don’t know that I have much of a rating system. Off the top of my head, I like NoLa, Memphis, Baltimore, Savannah, San Diego. If we’re allowed to go into Canada, Montreal is pleasant. I tend to like cities that break out of the “generic American city” mold. Older cities that haven’t gentrified appeal to me… ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/23 "2018-07-02T01:57:44Z")
Wow, what a screed. I thought I ought to stop halfway through and put on my asbestos gloves. He does have some reasonable points. I would agree, for example, that the privatization of public spaces is not a good thing. Rampant speculation in real estate doesn;t appear to have a lot of benefits for most New Yorkers. I’m told by people who live there that rents have gotten truly ridiculous, and that’s clearly a hardship for a lot of folks. Gentrification is a messy process at the very least, and it certainly displaces an awful lot of people at a significant human cost. And I’m sympathetic to the notion that something is lost when you can’t buy basic goods in a newly expensive neighborhood, due to rising rents and the influx of “specialty stores.” (On the other hand, this is nothing new, as I remember some of my Toronto relatives complaining back in the nineties that you could (literally) no longer buy a hammer in their neighborhood, and a similar story, possibly involving children’s clothing, when we visited Berkeley, CA around the same time.) And when I visit a city, I do like looking around and saying, “Yes, this is a distinctive place.” But the article as a whole is just silly. His rose-colored glasses were obviously special ordered from the Nostalgia Depot (an independently operated business hiring only genuine ethnic craftsmen from the old country). He hates modern architecture and thinks everything old is worth preserving…even if he’s right, and he isn’t, that’s tangential to the case he’s trying to make. He starts off with a laundry list of things that were bad about NYC in previous generations (he means mostly the late seventies to the early nineties, I think), but I wonder how well he actually remembers those things, and I’m guessing not well at all. I recall visiting Manhattan in 1980 and walking around Times Square and over to the Port Authority, and being accosted every twenty steps by people looking to sell me drugs (or occasionally buy them). It wasn’t a happy place. Other things, too. It’s hard to see how it’s a terrible thing that a store “had” to move from 57th Street to 43rd Street. His discussion of how NYC has become a series of gated communities is more than a bit flawed–Manhattan always has been full of “gated communities” in a very real sense, what with apartment buildings with buzzers, doormen, and so on. In his discussion of manufacturing I wondered if he was aware that manufacturing jobs are down everywhere, not just in NYC, and whether he understood that there are good reasons why they might be down more in NYC than in other, less expensive, areas of the country. I was surprised that he only used “Disneyfication” once (but he made up for it by the number of times he used “glass” as a pejorative), and it seemed entirely in character that he wound up concluding that the 1950s were the best time in NYC history. Two things in particular that I noticed, both of which strike me as being absolutely typical of Screeds Written by an Urban White Liberal Intellectual: 1. A fetishizing of Small Business. Look, small business has a lot to recommend it, but it 's got a lot of problems too. Take independent pharmacies. They’re often not open on Sunday (the day our kids tended to get ear infections) and they often close before you get home from work, and if they don’t have a medication in stock they have to order it and you have to wait till tomorrow, whereas at Rite Aid or CVS they’ll call around and see if the store in the next town has it. I know people love the bodegas in NYC, but many of them are inaccessible to my wife, who uses a scooter because of mobility issues; she can generally get into the chain stores. And chain stores often (not always) are cheaper, which might be a plus in an expensive city like New York. To this author, the decline of small business is a disaster!!! I’m not so sure. (It’s also an old thread. Bernard Malamud’s novel The Assistant, published in 1957, involves a corner store in NYC losing business to a larger one. So much for the halcyon days of the fifties.) And 2) A firm belief that the only certain people are Real, and only certain kinds of goods and jobs are Real. Rich people are not Real. Real estate investors and speculators are not Real. People who work for firms based in California or France are not Real. People who are (probably) going to move out of New York City within a couple of years are not Real. Branch banks are not Real. On the other hand, colorful neighbors are Real. Blue collar workers are Real. Ethnic people, like Dominicans or “Irish-Latinos,” are Real. Auto parts stores are Real. Chinese food is Real. It’s patronizing, it’s condescending, and it’s stupid. Too bad. As I said, he had some good points, but they get lost in the surrounding fury and illogic. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/24 "2018-07-02T02:02:02Z")
My impression, from afar, is that New York City has become the epicenter of virulent political correctness. This determination to be inoffensive has stripped it of any character that was once associated with New York City. And given it nothing of value to replace it. It is now a city completely devoid of any opinions more controversial than a “Have a Nice Day” button ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/25 "2018-07-02T02:19:17Z")
Homogenizing of places which formerly had more of their own character is an issue across the US, the developed world or even the whole world. But it’s generally accompanied (not necessarily a causal relationship though) by positive developments. For example any grousing about ‘more local character’ in NY dating from when the crime rate was 10 times as high as it is now (that’s a slight exaggeration in some categories of serious crime, but actually an understatement in others) has to be put in that perspective. There are some off beat things London has that NY also did but no longer does. One close to my heart is specialized aviation/military history book stores. I mourn that loss in NY as other people of idiosyncratic taste do other little things that have been homogenized away. But in the big picture, NY no longer a great city? No way. A lot of the posts have devolved to the historical and customary sniping at NY by non NY Americans. But putting up places like Boston or Chicago as in the same league as NY is just ridiculous. You can like those cities more, just as you can like Duluth Minnesota or North Platte Nebraska (to name two I’ve visited more than once and liked) or 1,000’s of other places more than NY. But saying they are really comparable world class cities would be almost like Brits or French saying any of their other cities are comparable to London and Paris, or maybe people in China saying all 160 of their cities \>1mil are world class cities. In their different ways LA and DC have perhaps most of the elements of true world class cities. And again, plenty of other places in the US are fine places, that’s not in dispute. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/26 "2018-07-02T02:21:05Z")
Some of the mentioned complaints could apply to just about any city that has been undergoing urban transformations in the last generation – the one I could get behind would be, yes, the exploding cost of housing in places like NY, SF, DC, etc. which is more about the increase in wealth disparity. (I had a conversation where someone was asked about the drop in crime in NY and he answered, that now only white-collar criminals can afford to live here, the average street criminal has to live so far away the commuting cost is not worth it.) I could definitely see LA and NY as peer cities, once we adjust for their realities of human and physical geography, as some specific things can’t be easily duplicated or would be out of place anywhere but in their home turf. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/27 "2018-07-02T02:37:50Z")
> [@senoy](#): > > I don’t know that I have much of a rating system. Off the top of my head, I like NoLa, Memphis, Baltimore, Savannah, San Diego. If we’re allowed to go into Canada, Montreal is pleasant. I tend to like cities that break out of the “generic American city” mold. Older cities that haven’t gentrified appeal to me… Have you ever been to New York? I love New Orleans, but it is a mess. The food is great, sure, but the public transportation is nothing like New York, and there are few good museums. My parents lived in San Diego a long time. A better zoo, yes, and good museums (but nothing like New York) and a way better climate. Aside from that, sprawl. And Baltimore is a total disaster. I can’t believe you even can compare it. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/28 "2018-07-02T02:41:26Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > In Manhattan there are so many stops that it seems – probably incorrectly – that I could make just as good a time walking. It’s probably an artifact of thinking that it is slower because I’m just standing around doing nothing as the train lurches forward and doesn’t even fully accelerate before slowing down again. I was a messenger one summer when tokens were 20 cents and no one used bicycles. I did lots of walking because I enjoyed it, but for anything over a stop the subway is much better and faster. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/29 "2018-07-02T02:42:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > That doesn’t make it a great city. It just makes it a city. There are plenty of things that New York has more of than most cities, but I’ve yet to find anything that New York has but that Cleveland lacks. _ahem_ Broadway and the American Museum of Natural History to name two. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/30 "2018-07-02T03:06:22Z")
Cleveland also has a theater district (Playhouse Square), the second-largest in the country, in fact. That’s something that (as mentioned) New York has more of, not something completely exclusive to New York. And Cleveland also has an excellent natural history museum. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/31 "2018-07-02T03:22:34Z")
Sorry, but the universally-accepted measurement of the quality of a natural history museum is the size of the dinosaurs in the lobby, so New York wins. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/32 "2018-07-02T03:37:51Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > Sorry, but the universally-accepted measurement of the quality of a natural history museum is the size of the dinosaurs in the lobby, so New York wins. We have the La Brea Tar Pits. You all lose. 😛 > **[La Brea Tar Pits](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits)** > > The La Brea Tar Pits is an active paleontological research site in urban Los Angeles. Hancock Park was formed around a group of tar pits where natural asphalt (also called asphaltum, bitumen, or pitch; brea in Spanish) has seeped up from the ground for tens of thousands of years. Over many centuries, the bones of trapped animals have been preserved. The George C. Page Museum is dedicated to researching the tar pits and displaying specimens from the animals that died there. La Brea Tar Pits is a... ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/33 "2018-07-02T03:48:36Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > We have the La Brea Tar Pits. You all lose. 😛 > > [La Brea Tar Pits - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Brea_Tar_Pits) Did they find a dinosaur in there? More skulls for sure, but not the variety. Or the size. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/34 "2018-07-02T03:59:57Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > Did they find a dinosaur in there? More skulls for sure, but not the variety. Or the size. Apparently, Los Angeles was under water during the age of the dinosaurs. But there are lots of fossils of extinct mammals. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/35 "2018-07-02T10:48:20Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > My impression, from afar, is that New York City has become the epicenter of virulent political correctness. This determination to be inoffensive has stripped it of any character that was once associated with New York City. And given it nothing of value to replace it. It is now a city completely devoid of any opinions more controversial than a “Have a Nice Day” button No, not really. Try visiting NYC , better yet go to a Yankees or Met game. Maybe the mayor’s office resembles your bizarre post to your standards, but not much else. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/36 "2018-07-02T11:03:18Z")
NYC subways and trains run far more miles and far more trains for far more times than any other US city. Last I checked London was UK. Museums: MOMA, N.Y. Museum Natural History, Guggenheim, The Metropolitan Museum of Art, Theodore Roosevelt Birthplace National Historic Site, Swiss Institute Contemporary Art New York, The statue of Liberty, 9/11 Memorial, South Street Seaport Museum, Skyscraper Museum, Parsons The New School for Design Gallery, Paley Center for Media,New York Transit Museum Brooklyn and Manhattan, New-York Historical Society, National Jazz Museum in Harlem, Museum of the City of New York, Museum of Jewish Heritage, The Morgan Library & Museum, Lower East Side Tenement Museum, Louis Armstrong House, Intrepid Sea, Air & Space Museum, Ellis Island Museum, The Cloisters and so many others. That was less than half. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/37 "2018-07-02T12:16:54Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > Well, it’s all been downhill since the electronics shops on [Radio Row](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Row) closed. Not to mention the Times Square cleanup. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/38 "2018-07-02T13:29:02Z")
New York is so terrible that no one wants to live there any more. Oh wait, the population, around 8 mil in 1950, then started heading to around 7 mil in 1970 or so is now over 8.5 mil and that growth is what is responsible for many of the problems. The subway could be great if the city ran it, but unfortunately the state does and the assemblyman from Utica does give a shit about NYC. I would move to NY in a minute if I could only get affordable health care. I would have done so already if not for the orange-haired menace. ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/39 "2018-07-02T13:47:35Z")
Change is inevitable. I lament “gentrification,” but also actively participate in it, and don’t really see reasonable alternatives. That said, the problem of change, homogenization, and the death of locally-owned business is not unique to New York (though the amounts of money involved are more dazzling than most other places, for sure). From the article: > [@](#): > > If a movie theater you can duck into in the middle of the day was one of the small raptures of the modern urban landscape, all around us were the same sorts of existential conveniences. Those corner bakeries with the string-wrapped boxes where you could get a respectable layer cake on the way to someone’s dinner party. A kosher butcher where you could pick up the lamb shank you realized you forgot just minutes before the family was due for Passover dinner. Decent Chinese food for a Friday night at home in front of the television. > > We worry now in my neighborhood that the cobbler’s shop across Broadway will be the next store priced out of business. The proprietor proudly displays calendar photos of erupting volcanoes from his native Ecuador in his shopwindows alongside pictures of his grandchildren at their confirmations. His grandson used to store his toys and coloring books in the boxes under the unused shoeshine chairs. When you walk in, there is always the sound of classical music on the radio, and the smell of something very elemental and raw, leather and polish, the scent of a real place serving a real purpose. > > It is almost the only store around that sells anything of use anymore. There are a few small hardware shops left still, some dry cleaners, a large grocery store, and a couple of bodegas. But otherwise, Jane Jacobs’s “intricate ballet” of the streets is being rapidly eradicated by a predatory monoculture. Everywhere, that which is universal and uniform prevails. Chain stores, of a type once unknown in New York, now abound. On those same ten blocks of my neighborhood where so many stores have been emptied out, I count three pharmacies, six bank branches, seven nail-and-beauty salons, three Starbucks, two Dunkin’ Donuts and three 7-Elevens, five phone-and-cable stores, four eyewear shops. The coming growth industry seems to be in urgent care facilities, of which there are already two, to serve our ridiculously underinsured population. This is not just New York, but everywhere. And, it is not just because small shops can’t afford the rent, but also because people’s habits/needs have changed. Of course the cobbler is going to close; _no one gets their shoes repaired anymore_. The internet allows us to shop from home. Large chains provide reliable, consistent (if not always particularly exceptional) food and goods from all over the world in one location. Who has time to go to the butcher shop just for meat anymore? The corner butcher (or baker, or candlestick maker) is now a specialty shop serving the few and affluent. This author has his sights too narrow. The real story here is how our expectations and our satisfaction are ever-more defined by large, powerful organizations/companies with little to no true commitment to the communities from which they extract profit. It’s a vicious cycle; but the story of people selling their uniqueness for convenience and short-term comfort is a tale as old as time. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2018, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112/40 "2018-07-02T13:54:42Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > LOL. What decade are you living in? > > I agree with the other stuff tho. This is more to \*\*Ludovic: \*\*The NYC Subway is better than you think and a lot better than it was 30-40 years ago. It runs, mostly on time. It runs all over the place. It cleanly interconnects to the Path, Amtrak, NJ Transit, LIRR, Hudson Line (or whatever it is really called) and I am probably missing a few. Also the bus service is pretty solid also. The subway is not a nice place but it works. 24x7x365. Boston is very limited by comparison. DC gets to less of the city and honestly I feel like Chicago is the city that comes closest to get people moved around. Also how is too many stations an issue? Check the subway schedule and wait for the expresses then, but too many stops? I wish the trains ran quicker between where I am and where I am going too, but more stops is very helpful overall. Especially on hot days or cold days or rainy days or snowy days or days where you just spend 5 hours walking around on of the incredible huge museums in NYC. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-a-once-great-city-is-new-york-city-really-this-bad/817112.md?page=3)