# Death of Sibling, legal advice needed **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 17, 2024, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388 "2024-07-17T16:45:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/81 "2024-07-19T18:35:37Z")
> [@xtenkfarpl](#): > > > [@Dr.Drake](#): > > > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > > > Family members unhappy with your decisions are free to hire a lawyer at their expense to fight you about it. Hint: they won’t. > > > > Don’t be so sure—we did, in exactly this situation (one sibling appointed themselves executor (not in the will) and began making decisions; other siblings unhappy). > > This all reminds me of stuff that happened after my wife’s mother died. My comments were aimed at the OP and/or @Hari_Seldon’s relative; trustworthy honest executors caught in the middle of an untrustworthy / untrusting family situation. Obviously there are untrustworthy executors in infinite variety. Some of whom ought to be sued. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/82 "2024-07-19T18:43:57Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Family members unhappy with your decisions are free to hire a lawyer at their expense to fight you about it. Hint: they won’t. When my mother died, B2 made periodic threats to do just this. He’s also the one who threatened to have B1 and B3 overturned with Mom’s medical power of attorney (e.g. forcing her to have a procedure when her explicitly stated wishes were NOT to have one - she had lung cancer, and it’s possible that this might have had a palliative effective). He kept trying to recruit me to support him. He had, some years earlier, tried to enlist my support in having our mother involuntarily commited for self-destructive behavior (for refusing to quit smoking). B2 IS A LAWYER. He had to have known that none of these efforts would have gone anywhere. It would have been 3 against 1, and frankly if he’d asked me to testify that the sky was blue, my comment would have been “no comment”. Hint: if you’ve been an asshole your entire life, ramping that up to 11 when things get tough is unlikely to do anything except further alienate people and cost a lot of money. I actually understand his motivations, to some extent, while Mom was alive; afterward it was just a matter of making sure nobody got something he might have been entitled to. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/83 "2024-07-19T18:52:39Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Hint: if you’ve been an asshole your entire life, ramping that up to 11 when things get tough is unlikely to do anything except further alienate people and cost a lot of money. I find that grief is a bit like alcohol in the _**[in vino veritas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vino_veritas)**_ sense. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/84 "2024-07-19T19:57:21Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > …they will claw those back as soon as they find out. … Boy, I really dislike that term “claw back” - which I believe is being pushed by financial writer Terry Savage. The official term is “recover overpayment.” Even if it was the Agency’s error that caused the overpayment (most commonly it is folk on disability returning to work, not telling the Agency, and thinking they should keep the cash), I find it curious that folk think “finders keepers” ought to be the rule WRT SS benefits. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/85 "2024-07-19T23:15:53Z")
Meh. “Claw back” is a standard accounting term and has been since I was a kid. Lotta folks are surprised about the payment in the month of death being clawed back. Which makes more sense when you understand that the payments everyone receives at various dates throughout e.g. July are meant to be your living allowance for August. Die in July and you don’t need groceries, etc. in August. Of course it’s all a matter of Congress’s discretion; they could choose to e.g. pay half benefits for 6 months post-death to subsidize the orderly close-out of the decedent’s residence, car payments, etc. Or not. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [July 20, 2024, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/86 "2024-07-20T11:09:09Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Meh. “Claw back” is a standard accounting term and has been since I was a kid. Funny - I never encountered it. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/87 "2024-07-22T15:53:42Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Of course it’s all a matter of Congress’s discretion; they could choose to e.g. pay half benefits for 6 months post-death to subsidize the orderly close-out of the decedent’s residence, car payments, etc. Or not. I suspect there is also some common sense applied in how the “claw back” (or whatever term you use) is implemented. If the couple is receiving 2500 a month, and the widow should receive 1500 a month, and it’s 3 months before Social Security gets their act together, there’s an overpayment of 3,000. Do they debit the account for all 3,000 right away? Stop payments for 2 months? Pay a lesser amount for a few months (e.g. pay 750 a month for 4 months)? None of these would be relevant to the OP’s scenario, of course; she needs to make sure that any overpayment doesn’t get inadvertently used to pay other bills, of course. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/88 "2024-07-22T16:55:40Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > None of these would be relevant to the OP’s scenario The people doing the cremation ordered the death certificates, and they will be notifying Social Security so apparently that happens automatically in a way I don’t think anything else does. Today my cousins are picking up the valuables and the car and then I will okay the landlady to dispose of the rest of it, after speaking with her on the phone I think it’s the easiest way to go about it and I have no reason to think if she would not charge appropriately she thinks the maximum would be $300 including cleaning and I’m fine with that ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/89 "2024-07-22T17:11:50Z")
Make sure your cousins grab any personal documents, mail, tax forms, etc. as well. Ask the landlord to open the mail box and take what’s in there. That kind of stuff can help you figure out where he has accounts that may need to be transferred or closed. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/90 "2024-07-22T17:33:27Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > and then I will okay the landlady to dispose of the rest of it, after speaking with her on the phone I think it’s the easiest way to go about it This was one of the things that upset me in my family’s situation. The person who wasn’t executor at the time just cleared the place without keeping records, claiming (basically) that it was all junk and worth nothing. Perhaps true, but that would have been an easier sell with photographs rather than someone’s say-so, and it’s hard to believe that there were literally zero items of value, when we knew about specific possessions. Now, those possessions might have got ruined since I saw them, sure, but… all I’m saying is the more documentation you have of each step, the easier it is to head off grief going forward. Sorry to be so negative about this! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/91 "2024-07-22T17:38:51Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > The person who wasn’t executor at the time just cleared the place without keeping records, claiming (basically) that it was all junk and worth nothing. Selling stuff costs money and effort. We sold a lot of my mother’s stuff while we were working on selling the apartment (and arguing as to whether to sell it or keep it as an investment) but if we’d had to pay rent, or filter out the valuables and store them, i think selling anything other than the silverware and a couple of paintings would have been a net loss. (The silverware and the paintings could have been removed by any one of us and stored in that person’s house while working on the sale.) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/92 "2024-07-22T17:55:15Z")
That’s true, but I do think it’s useful to have a record establishing what there is. In our case, everything was disposed of / sold without records / given away a couple of years before heirs were notified about the estate. That made me extra sensitive to procedural errors. (The many guns, for example, went missing—that really shouldn’t happen!) ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/93 "2024-07-22T17:56:06Z")
If the other sibling is likely to kick up a fuss, then it’s important to remember that the OP isn’t actually authorized to dispose of the property until they are made the executor. The safest thing would be to tell the landlord that you’re not authorized to say she can clean out the apartment. If rent isn’t paid, then she can do whatever she normally does with a vacant apartment where the rent isn’t being paid. That way the OP isn’t the one who said the possessions can be disposed of. The other sibling should be notified that the landlord is likely going to take possession of the apartment and to go by and get anything that they want before that happens. That will help minimize any hurt feelings and risk of complications from the apartment being cleaned out. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/94 "2024-07-22T19:31:46Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > The people doing the cremation ordered the death certificates, My gf ordered extras (paid a small fee) and they ended up coming in handy. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/95 "2024-07-22T21:48:43Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I’m sure others share my desire that you check back in periodically to let us know how things go. Your experience will better inform all of us. Yes, I’ll be doing this for my mom’s estate in the (near?) future. Besides that, it’s fascinating. As well as a great soap opera… (I want to hear about more asshole siblings)! ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2024, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/96 "2024-07-22T22:41:30Z")
> [@digs](#): > > (I want to hear about more asshole siblings)! IME far more destructive is mostly decent siblings married to asshole spouses. They’re caught in the middle and so you get Munschausen Asshole by Proxy going on. Nobody wins but everyone is covered by the spray of shit. ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/97 "2024-07-23T00:24:27Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > My gf ordered extras (paid a small fee) and they ended up coming in handy. I ordered 10 copies on the theory that too many was better than not enough. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/98 "2024-07-23T00:54:33Z")
> [@JackieLikesVariety](#): > > and then I will okay the landlady to dispose of the rest of it, after speaking with her on the phone I think it’s the easiest way to go about it and I have no reason to think if she would not charge appropriately she thinks the maximum would be $300 including cleaning and I’m fine with that Did I miss the part where you were designated the administrator or executor of the estate? ---
**Author:** ![JackieLikesVariety](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackielikesvariety/32/296_2.png) [@JackieLikesVariety](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JackieLikesVariety)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/99 "2024-07-23T14:13:50Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Did I miss the part where you were designated the administrator or executor of the estate? no, which is why liquidating the valuables is on hold until I figure out how to do that. or a will surfaces, as my cousin goes through the papers he found. I know the hope is to file for “informal probate” and not sure if that has to be done in person in Hennepin County. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2024, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388/100 "2024-07-23T14:16:50Z")
Ok. You’re just describing your future plan on the assumption that you get the call. It’s all very sensible, in that case. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-of-sibling-legal-advice-needed/1004388.md?page=6)