# Death penalty for juveniles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886 "2016-12-16T19:59:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/1 "2016-12-16T19:59:06Z")
I have been reading about the investigation of the Gatlinburg fire, and it seems they are considering a possible death penalty case for the people who allegedly set the fire. Both suspects are juveniles. Didn’t the Supreme Court rule that only adults could be sentenced to death? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/2 "2016-12-16T20:04:22Z")
> **[Roper v. Simmons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons)** > > Roper v. Simmons, 543 U.S. 551 (2005), was a landmark decision in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that it is unconstitutional to impose capital punishment for crimes committed while under the age of 18. The 5–4 decision overruled Stanford v. Kentucky, in which the court had upheld execution of offenders at or above age 16, and overturned statutes in 25 states. > In 1993, in the state of Missouri, 17-year-old Christopher Simmons, along with two younger friends, Charles Benjamin an... ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/3 "2016-12-16T20:51:51Z")
I haven’t seen anything saying the prosecutor is seeking the death penalty - can you provide a link, **boffking**? I have found articles where the prosecutor says “everything is on the table”, but I think that has to be taken in the context of “every option that is available for a juvenile accused will be considered.” > **[Prosecutor: 'Everything on the table' for juveniles charged in deadly fire | CNN](http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/14/us/tennessee-wildfire-charges/)** > > Two youths have been charged with arson in the Tennessee wildfires that have left 14 people dead. Will they be charged in their deaths? ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/4 "2016-12-16T20:55:44Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > [Roper v. Simmons - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roper_v._Simmons) I am glad to see Scalia argued against the death penalty for juveniles being considered cruel and unusual punishment when the constitution was written, and thus should continue to be acceptable. Too bad we won’t get to hear his opinion on whether hangings should be held in the public square… ---
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2016, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/5 "2016-12-16T22:29:43Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > I haven’t seen anything saying the prosecutor is seeking the death penalty - can you provide a link, **boffking**? > > I have found articles where the prosecutor says “everything is on the table”, but I think that has to be taken in the context of “every option that is available for a juvenile accused will be considered.” > > [http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/14/us/tennessee-wildfire-charges/](http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/14/us/tennessee-wildfire-charges/) From the linked article: According to Cevallos, that’s because the statute defining first-degree murder in Tennessee includes the “killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate,” several specific offenses, among them arson. In Tennessee, conviction of first-degree murder carries life in prison, life without the possibility of parole, or the death penalty ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/6 "2016-12-17T00:42:35Z")
If they’re tried as adults, wouldn’t that make them eligible to be sentenced as adults? Note the “if”. I don’t know anything about this particular case. If they’re tried as children, obviously that makes a difference. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/7 "2016-12-17T06:57:38Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > If they’re tried as adults, wouldn’t that make them eligible to be sentenced as adults? Yes, they would be sentenced as adults, but the death penalty would still not be allowed. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/8 "2016-12-17T17:05:53Z")
Sure, why not? If you are going to execute criminals, why would it matter how old they are? One of my friends is a woman whose two sons (17 and 15 then) got involved with gangs, and were tried as adults, convicted of murder, and will not be eligible for parole until they are in their 60s. That’s OK, right? As long as they were not executed. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/9 "2016-12-17T18:51:00Z")
> [@jtur88](#): > > Sure, why not? If you are going to execute criminals, why would it matter how old they are? Because it’s assumed that minors have a reduced ability to make toughtful decisions. That’s why they aren’t allowed to vote, to have sex with whoever they want, to drink alcohol, to sign valid contracts, and so on. You can’t reasonably argue that they’re irresponsible when you feel like it and fully responsible when you prefer it that way. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2016, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/10 "2016-12-17T22:55:09Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Yes, they would be sentenced as adults, but the death penalty would still not be allowed. What is the basis for this absolute comment? I’m not up on the details of Tennessee juvenile law and practice but would like to learn. Please share a good cite. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/11 "2016-12-18T00:46:22Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > What is the basis for this absolute comment? I’m not up on the details of Tennessee juvenile law and practice but would like to learn. Please share a good cite. Post #2 gave the cite. You can’t change “age 18” by some trick of law, so a minor tried as an adult is still not 18. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/12 "2016-12-18T00:57:42Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > From the linked article: > According to Cevallos, that’s because the statute defining first-degree murder in Tennessee includes the “killing of another committed in the perpetration of or attempt to perpetrate,” several specific offenses, among them arson. > > In Tennessee, conviction of first-degree murder carries life in prison, life without the possibility of parole, or the death penalty But you missed earlier in the article where the author made the specific statement: “If more serious charges, including first-degree murder, are levied against them and they are convicted, they could spend the rest of their lives in prison.” This recognizes that, as juveniles, they cannot be given the death penalty under the current interpretation of the 8th Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/13 "2016-12-18T01:11:10Z")
Thank you \*\*John Mace \*\*and **DSYoungEsq**. ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-for-juveniles/774886/14 "2016-12-18T02:50:56Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Because it’s assumed that minors have a reduced ability to make toughtful decisions. That’s why they aren’t allowed to vote, to have sex with whoever they want, to drink alcohol, to sign valid contracts, and so on. You can’t reasonably argue that they’re irresponsible when you feel like it and fully responsible when you prefer it that way. But in the case I described, that didn’t deter for a moment the state’s willingness to sentence them to 55 years in prison, when the felt like it. The state has already decided that ehen these kids are 65 years old, they will still be a danger to society, but harmless when they are 70 and safe to be released. In the year 2057.