# Death penalty opponents - a hypothetical **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 10, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651 "2015-03-10T00:25:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/121 "2015-03-14T02:14:28Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > If you are older than me, then you write shockingly like a college undergrad doing an opinion essay. I’m literally visualizing you with a Red Bull or a soda in front of a PC, taking a break from studying to post here. In this visualization you’re having of me, am I naked? I really hope not. **Get lives** , no offence; I just want to get to know you better: Have you ever been on a reality television show? Do you live in Georgia? Do you have a child whose name rhymes with “money woo woo”? Alright, that’s all the comedy relief y’all get for tonight. I’m going to bed…after I apply my Preparation H. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/122 "2015-03-14T02:21:56Z")
> [@Tibby or Not Tibby](#): > > In this visualization you’re having of me, am I naked? I really hope not. > > **Get lives** , no offence; I just want to get to know you better: Have you ever been on a reality television show? Do you live in Georgia? Do you have a child whose name rhymes with “money woo woo”? > > Alright, that’s all the comedy relief y’all get for tonight. I’m going to bed…after I apply my Preparation H. You are not especially well-thought-through on this topic. However, had I realized this is probably as good as you’re likely to get at it, I’d have not bothered responding to your original post. And I don’t mean any of that as an insult. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/123 "2015-03-14T02:30:17Z")
Hey, no harm, no foul. Let’s call it a night. Say g’night to Boo Boo. ---
**Author:** ![Asimovian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asimovian/32/172_2.png) [@Asimovian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asimovian)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/124 "2015-03-14T02:36:59Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > You are not especially well-thought-through on this topic. However, had I realized this is probably as good as you’re likely to get at it, I’d have not bothered responding to your original post. And I don’t mean any of that as an insult. And yet, it sounds remarkably similar to one. As does the tone of a number of your other posts in this thread. Dial it back. Let’s all return to the actual topic of the thread, please. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/125 "2015-03-14T08:28:58Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > We wouldn’t have salvation available to us, and we would all go to hell? > > That would kind of suck, truthfully. Well, TRUTHFULLY, hell doesn’t exist, nor does any need to be “saved” from it. Which kinda the OPPOSITE of “sucks.” :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/126 "2015-03-14T16:15:10Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > There’s no benefit in executing someone who turns out to be innocent. In your scenario, of 100 executed traitors 5 did nothing wrong. The idea of an innocent man in the scaffold while by definition the guilty man goes free is absolutely intolerable, no matter the crime. In your cost/benefits analysis, why not throw them in prison for life? They aren’t in a position to cause any further harm to society, with the benefit that we can let them out if they turn out to be innocent. You persist at looking at this the wrong way around. The question isn’t whether you should execute someone you know/believe to be innocent (the answer is no). The question is how high you should set the bar for belief in someone’s guilt. If it’s, say, 15 times as bad to execute an innocent person as it is to leave a guilty criminal alive, and if there’s a 5% chance that someone is innocent, then the potential benefit of execution (1 x 0.95 = 0.95) is greater than (15 x 0.05 = 0.75) so the cost-benefit analysis should favour executing them. That being said, if you think the death penalty is forbidden on moral grounds, then you shouldn’t execute them whatever the relative costs and benefits might be, and vice versa. I think one of the main purposes of a legal system is _punishment_, i.e. to expiate the criminal’s guilt through some kind of imposed suffering. Preventing future harms to society is another purpose, but it’s not the only one. So I might still favour executing some criminals (specifically, criminals against the state) even if there was no further harm that they could do in prison, purely on the ground that it was _just_ and they _deserved_ it. Having said that, you’re also wrong: political criminals, more than many others, can in fact continue to do damage even when in prison. They can write books, they can promulgate ideas, they can serve as rallying points for their supporters and if the government in power changes they might be set free. For example, much of modern Islamic jihadism was invented by an Egyptian intellectual in the 1950s and 1960s, who wrote down his core ideas _while he was in prison_. He was eventually hanged, but not soon enough to prevent him writing down the ideas that eventually inspired Osama bin Laden, ISIS, and their legions of allies. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/127 "2015-03-14T16:45:54Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Well, TRUTHFULLY, hell doesn’t exist, nor does any need to be “saved” from it. > > Which kinda the OPPOSITE of “sucks.” > > :dubious: The testimony of a lot of people who claim to have seen hell disagrees with you, and I tend to find their claims more convincing then yours. ---
**Author:** ![dudleysharp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dudleysharp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dudleysharp)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/128 "2015-03-14T20:00:15Z")
The Death Penalty: Justice and Saving More Innocents Dudley Sharp, 8/2014 The death penalty has a foundation in justice and it spares more innocent lives. The majority populations of all countries, likely, support the death penalty for some crimes (1). Why? Justice. Anti death penalty arguments are either false or the pro death penalty arguments are stronger. No “Botched” Execution - Arizona (or Ohio) > **[No "Botched" Execution - Arizona (or Ohio)](https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2014/08/no-botched-execution-arizona-or-ohio.html)** > > No "Botched" Execution - Arizona (or Ohio) Dudley Sharp "In 1989, (Wood) hunted down and shot to death his former girlfriend, Debra Die... Anti Victim: Anti Death Penalty Movement > **[Anti Victim: Anti Death Penalty Movement](https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2014/04/anti-victim-anti-death-penalty-movement.html)** > > updated 3/2023 Anti Victim/Anti Death Penalty Movement   Dudley Sharp ,  Dudley Sharp, independent researcher, death penalty expert, former... The Death Penalty: Do Innocents Matter? A Review of All Innocence Issues > **[DEATH PENALTY: SAVING MORE INNOCENT LIVES](https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-death-penalty-do-innocents-matter.html)** > > updated 4/2023 The Death Penalty: SAVING MORE INNOCENT LIVES A Review of All Innocence Issues Dudley Sharp, independent researcher, death ... The Death Penalty: Fair and Just > **[THE DEATH PENALTY: FAIR & JUST](https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/12/is-death-peanalty-fairjust.html)** > > updated 3/2023 The Death Penalty: Fair & Just Dudley Sharp, independent researcher, death penalty expert, 832-439-2113, CV at bottom ... New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming > **[New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming](https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-testament-death-penalty-support.html)** > > updated 1/2022 New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming Dudley Sharp, independent researcher, death penalty expert, former opp... THE DEATH PENALTY: SAVING MORE INNOCENT LIVES The Innocent Frauds: Standard Anti Death Penalty Strategy and THE DEATH PENALTY: SAVING MORE INNOCENT LIVES > **[THE INNOCENT FRAUDS: ANTI DEATH PENALTY STRATEGY](https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-innocent-frauds-standard-anti-death.html)** > > Innocent Frauds: Standard Anti Death Penalty Strategy Dudley Sharp , independent researcher, death penalty expert, former opponent, 832-439... OF COURSE THE DEATH PENALTY DETERS: A review of the debate and MURDERERS MUCH PREFER LIFE OVER EXECUTION 99.7% of murderers tell us “Give me life, not execution” > **[OF COURSE THE DEATH PENALTY DETERS:](https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/03/of-course-death-penalty-deters.html)** > > updated 3/2019 Of  Course The Death Penalty Deters: A review of the debate Dudley Sharp If you are unsure about deterrence, then you ca... Saving Costs with The Death Penalty > **[Saving Costs with the Death Penalty](https://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/02/death-penalty-cost-saving-money.html)** > > updated 3/2023 Saving Costs with The Death Penalty Dudley Sharp, independent researcher, death penalty expert, former opponent, 832-439-2113... MORAL FOUNDATIONS Immanuel Kant: “If an offender has committed murder, he must die. In this case, no possible substitute can satisfy justice. For there is no parallel between death and even the most miserable life, so that there is no equality of crime and retribution unless the perpetrator is judicially put to death.”. “A society that is not willing to demand a life of somebody who has taken somebody else’s life is simply immoral.” Pope Pius XII; “When it is a question of the execution of a man condemned to death it is then reserved to the public power to deprive the condemned of the benefit of life, in expiation of his fault, when already, by his fault, he has dispossessed himself of the right to live.” 9/14/52 John Murray: “Nothing shows the moral bankruptcy of a people or of a generation more than disregard for the sanctity of human life.” “… it is this same atrophy of moral fiber that appears in the plea for the abolition of the death penalty.” “It is the sanctity of life that validates the death penalty for the crime of murder. It is the sense of this sanctity that constrains the demand for the infliction of this penalty. The deeper our regard for life the firmer will be our hold upon the penal sanction which the violation of that sanctity merit.” (Page 122 of Principles of Conduct). Plato: “Longer life is no boon to the sinner himself in such a case, and that his decease will bring a double blessing to his neighbors; it will be a lesson to them to keep themselves from wrong, and will rid society of an evil man. These are the reasons for which a legislator is bound to ordain the chastisement of death for such desperate villainies, and for them alone” William A. Petit, Jr.: “Justice is the first virtue of social institutions,” according to philosopher John Rawls. It transcends national borders, races and cultures. The death penalty is the appropriate societal response to the brutal and willful act of capital felony murder. Every murder destroys a portion of society. Those murdered can never grow and contribute to humankind; the realization of their potential will never be achieved. I support the death penalty not as a deterrent or for revenge or closure, but because it is just and because it prevents murderers from ever harming again. By intentionally, unlawfully taking the life of another, a murderer breaks a sacrosanct law of society and forfeits his own right to live. (In a home invasion, Dr. Petit was, severely injured, his wife Jennifer and their 11 year old daughter Michaela were raped and murdered. Both daughters, Michaela and Hayley were burned, alive.) John Locke: “A criminal who, having renounced reason… hath, by the unjust violence and slaughter he hath committed upon one, declared war against all mankind, and therefore may be destroyed as a lion or tyger, one of those wild savage beasts with whom men can have no society nor security.” And upon this is grounded the great law of Nature, “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed.” Second Treatise of Civil Government. Saint (& Pope) Pius V: “The just use of (executions), far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this (Fifth) Commandment which prohibits murder.” “The Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent” (1566). Jean-Jacques Rousseau: “In killing the criminal, we destroy not so much a citizen as an enemy. The trial and judgments are proofs that he has broken the Social Contract, and so is no longer a member of the State.” (The Social Contract) 3300 additional pro death penalty quotes [http://prodpquotes.info/](http://prodpquotes.info/) Read a) Guilty: The Collapse of Criminal Justice, by Judge Harold J. Rothwax, 1996 b) The Death of Punishment, Robert Blecker, 2014 1. 86% Death Penalty Support: Highest Ever - April 2013 World Support Remains High 95% of Murder Victim’s Family Members Support Death Penalty [ProDPinNC: 86% Death Penalty Support: Highest Ever - April 2013](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/11/86-death-penalty-support-highest-ever.html) ====== Victim’s Voices - These are the murder victims www(DOT)[murdervictims.com/Voices/voices.html](http://murdervictims.com/Voices/voices.html) Much more, upon request. [sharpjfa@aol.com](mailto:sharpjfa@aol.com) ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/129 "2015-03-14T20:09:42Z")
Thanks for that, Dudley. I’m sure you’ll get a better reaction this time that the previous 9,999 times you’ve posted that in various forums. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/130 "2015-03-14T20:10:06Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > The testimony of a lot of people who claim to have seen hell disagrees with you, and I tend to find their claims more convincing then yours. What about the testimony of thousands of people who have seen Shiva, Krishna, Vishnu, and Ganesh? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2015, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/131 "2015-03-14T20:15:14Z")
> [@dudleysharp](#): > > Much more, upon request. [sharpjfa@aol.com](mailto:sharpjfa@aol.com) If someone asks for more, I might have to make an exception to my opposition to the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/132 "2015-03-15T06:43:45Z")
> [@dudleysharp](#): > > The Death Penalty: Justice and Saving More Innocents > Dudley Sharp, 8/2014 > > The death penalty has a foundation in justice and it spares more innocent lives. > > The majority populations of all countries, likely, support the death penalty for some crimes (1). > > Why? Justice. > > Anti death penalty arguments are either false or the pro death penalty arguments are stronger. > > No “Botched” Execution - Arizona (or Ohio) > [ProDPinNC: No "Botched" Execution - Arizona (or Ohio)](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2014/08/no-botched-execution-arizona-or-ohio.html) > Anti Victim: Anti Death Penalty Movement > [ProDPinNC: Anti Victim: Anti Death Penalty Movement](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2014/04/anti-victim-anti-death-penalty-movement.html) > The Death Penalty: Do Innocents Matter? A Review of All Innocence Issues > [ProDPinNC: DEATH PENALTY: SAVING MORE INNOCENT LIVES](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-death-penalty-do-innocents-matter.html) > The Death Penalty: Fair and Just > [ProDPinNC: THE DEATH PENALTY: FAIR & JUST](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/12/is-death-peanalty-fairjust.html) > New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming > [ProDPinNC: New Testament Death Penalty Support Overwhelming](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2014/01/new-testament-death-penalty-support.html) > THE DEATH PENALTY: SAVING MORE INNOCENT LIVES > > The Innocent Frauds: Standard Anti Death Penalty Strategy > and > THE DEATH PENALTY: SAVING MORE INNOCENT LIVES > [ProDPinNC: THE INNOCENT FRAUDS: ANTI DEATH PENALTY STRATEGY](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/04/the-innocent-frauds-standard-anti-death.html) > > OF COURSE THE DEATH PENALTY DETERS: A review of the debate > and > MURDERERS MUCH PREFER LIFE OVER EXECUTION > 99.7% of murderers tell us “Give me life, not execution” > [ProDPinNC: OF COURSE THE DEATH PENALTY DETERS:](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/03/of-course-death-penalty-deters.html) > Saving Costs with The Death Penalty > [ProDPinNC: Saving Costs with the Death Penalty](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/02/death-penalty-cost-saving-money.html) > MORAL FOUNDATIONS > Immanuel Kant: “If an offender has committed murder, he must die. In this case, no possible substitute can satisfy justice. For there is no parallel between death and even the most miserable life, so that there is no equality of crime and retribution unless the perpetrator is judicially put to death.”. “A society that is not willing to demand a life of somebody who has taken somebody else’s life is simply immoral.” > Pope Pius XII; “When it is a question of the execution of a man condemned to death it is then reserved to the public power to deprive the condemned of the benefit of life, in expiation of his fault, when already, by his fault, he has dispossessed himself of the right to live.” 9/14/52 > John Murray: “Nothing shows the moral bankruptcy of a people or of a generation more than disregard for the sanctity of human life.” “… it is this same atrophy of moral fiber that appears in the plea for the abolition of the death penalty.” “It is the sanctity of life that validates the death penalty for the crime of murder. It is the sense of this sanctity that constrains the demand for the infliction of this penalty. The deeper our regard for life the firmer will be our hold upon the penal sanction which the violation of that sanctity merit.” (Page 122 of Principles of Conduct). > Plato: “Longer life is no boon to the sinner himself in such a case, and that his decease will bring a double blessing to his neighbors; it will be a lesson to them to keep themselves from wrong, and will rid society of an evil man. These are the reasons for which a legislator is bound to ordain the chastisement of death for such desperate villainies, and for them alone” > William A. Petit, Jr.: “Justice is the first virtue of social institutions,” according to philosopher John Rawls. It transcends national borders, races and cultures. The death penalty is the appropriate societal response to the brutal and willful act of capital felony murder. Every murder destroys a portion of society. Those murdered can never grow and contribute to humankind; the realization of their potential will never be achieved. I support the death penalty not as a deterrent or for revenge or closure, but because it is just and because it prevents murderers from ever harming again. By intentionally, unlawfully taking the life of another, a murderer breaks a sacrosanct law of society and forfeits his own right to live. (In a home invasion, Dr. Petit was, severely injured, his wife Jennifer and their 11 year old daughter Michaela were raped and murdered. Both daughters, Michaela and Hayley were burned, alive.) > John Locke: “A criminal who, having renounced reason… hath, by the unjust violence and slaughter he hath committed upon one, declared war against all mankind, and therefore may be destroyed as a lion or tyger, one of those wild savage beasts with whom men can have no society nor security.” And upon this is grounded the great law of Nature, “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed.” Second Treatise of Civil Government. > Saint (& Pope) Pius V: “The just use of (executions), far from involving the crime of murder, is an act of paramount obedience to this (Fifth) Commandment which prohibits murder.” “The Roman Catechism of the Council of Trent” (1566). > Jean-Jacques Rousseau: “In killing the criminal, we destroy not so much a citizen as an enemy. The trial and judgments are proofs that he has broken the Social Contract, and so is no longer a member of the State.” (The Social Contract) > 3300 additional pro death penalty quotes > [http://prodpquotes.info/](http://prodpquotes.info/) > Read > > a) Guilty: The Collapse of Criminal Justice, by Judge Harold J. Rothwax, 1996 > > b) The Death of Punishment, Robert Blecker, 2014 > > 1. 86% Death Penalty Support: Highest Ever - April 2013 > World Support Remains High > 95% of Murder Victim’s Family Members Support Death Penalty > [ProDPinNC: 86% Death Penalty Support: Highest Ever - April 2013](http://prodpinnc.blogspot.com/2013/11/86-death-penalty-support-highest-ever.html) > ====== > Victim’s Voices - These are the murder victims > www(DOT)[murdervictims.com/Voices/voices.html](http://murdervictims.com/Voices/voices.html) > Much more, upon request. [sharpjfa@aol.com](mailto:sharpjfa@aol.com) This just in: **kaylasdad99** sharing planet with people who are wrong about things. Film at 11. ---
**Author:** ![beagledave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6de8d8/32.png) [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/133 "2015-03-16T15:35:41Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > There are four valid reasons for punishment and one invalid one. The four valid reasons are: > 1: Restitution > 2: Rehabilitation > 3: Protection of the public > 4: Deterrence > > Of these, the death penalty does nothing for restitution: Nothing can bring back a murder victim. It does less than nothing for rehabilitation: There’s a possibility that an imprisoned murderer will reform and become a good citizen, but that possibility does not exist for an executed murderer. It does protect the public from recurrence of the crime, but only to the same extent as life imprisonment. And it could in principle serve as a deterrent against murder, but in practice, it’s empirically found that it works extremely poorly for that, probably worse than imprisonment does. > > That just leaves the one invalid reason for punishment, the one reason why the death penalty does exist: Revenge. People sometimes try to dress this up by calling it justice, but revenge is not justice, and what they really want is just revenge. Which never accomplishes anything positive, and always makes the situation worse, long-term. Yeah this…pretty much. In modern society (certainly first world countries), there are ways to protect society that don’t involve execution. It’s a criminal justice system, not a criminal vengeance system. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/134 "2015-03-17T00:52:21Z")
Maybe I’m not up on the present state of the US penal system, but does _anyone_ ever get rehabilitated in a prison there? I’ve always thought it was just punishment and retribution, and the whole rehabilitation schtick was simply lip service. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/135 "2015-03-17T01:37:36Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If someone asks for more, I might have to make an exception to my opposition to the death penalty. For an info request? ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651/136 "2015-03-17T03:37:45Z")
No, for spam. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-opponents-a-hypothetical/714651.md?page=6)