# Death Penalty options **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 22, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423 "2019-07-22T01:20:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/21 "2019-07-22T13:50:47Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > there is no evidence that the death penalty deters murderers. Some studies have found no correlation. Some studies have found significant correlation. The only thing that has been conclusively proven, is that you can cherry-pick the data to produce the result you want. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/22 "2019-07-22T15:29:34Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Bullet straight to the temple. …of a human or a kitten? > [@bob\_2](#): > > there is no evidence that the death penalty deters murderers. But it does deter ONE murderer. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/23 "2019-07-22T16:28:11Z")
> [@UCBearcats](#): > > Bullet straight to the temple. **Moderator Warning** **UCBearcats** , this is a warning for trolling. This in no way addresses the question in the OP. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/24 "2019-07-22T16:31:15Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > I think they should build the world’s largest wood chipper — something with a 15 foot wide barrel with 4-inch blades rotating 4200 RPM or akin to that — and use that. It should be instantaneous and hence virtually painless while at the same time incredibly gory, which in turn should horrify people (as should be the case, both for the extremity of what it is that we’re doing and as the maximum deterrent impact). > > Or, more practically, a firing squad using machine guns with soft-nosed bullets. **Moderator Warning** Again, this is way out of line for GQ. This is an official warning. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/25 "2019-07-22T16:35:39Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > The easy answer is to stop doing it altogether - there is no evidence that the death penalty deters murderers. Alternatively - do it in public; broadcast it on TV so that everyone can see how barbaric it is. > [@Smapti](#): > > The point of the death penalty isn’t deterrent. It’s _punishment_. Some crimes are so heinous that the perpetrator doesn’t deserve to exist anymore. > [@ftg](#): > > Killing people with injections is one of the stupidest ways of doing it. When a firing squad or hanging are less brutal, you need to rethink the whole concept. > [@Alessan](#): > > Probably the best way. Simple, well-tested, traditional, even dignified. That would be my choice if I had to go. > [@mbh](#): > > Some studies have found no correlation. > Some studies have found significant correlation. > The only thing that has been conclusively proven, is that you can cherry-pick the data to produce the result you want. > [@panache45](#): > > …of a human or a kitten? > > But it does deter ONE murderer. **Moderating** This being GQ, there is no need to turn this into a debate on the death penalty. If you want to do so, start a thread in Great Debates. **STICK STRICTLY TO THE QUESTION IN THE OP.** Further hijacks will be subject to a warning. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/26 "2019-07-22T16:44:06Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > > [@AK84](#): > > > > Measured drop hanging. > > Probably the best way. Simple, well-tested, traditional, even dignified. That would be my choice if I had to go. I vaguely remember that one of the hangings after the Iraq invasion (perhaps Saddam Hussein’s) went really badly, with the person essentially being decapitated. Or the person can slowly, agonizingly, strangle. I don’t think anyone in the US has had much experience with hanging for over a hundred years, so there’s going to have to be a learning curve. ---
**Author:** ![bardos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bardos/32/1069_2.png) [@bardos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bardos)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/27 "2019-07-22T16:52:22Z")
Hope this is on topic: I think I’ve seen this thread before, don’t know its exact location on the site. Isn’t it obvious that a heroin overdose would be the most accessible and easy way to execute, if there does exist a death penalty and one opts for the chemical way? Lights out. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/28 "2019-07-22T17:16:25Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I vaguely remember that one of the hangings after the Iraq invasion (perhaps Saddam Hussein’s) went really badly, with the person essentially being decapitated. Or the person can slowly, agonizingly, strangle. I don’t think anyone in the US has had much experience with hanging for over a hundred years, so there’s going to have to be a learning curve. That’s the problem with the measured drop. Too little of a drop and the person is slowly strangled. Happened with some of the Nazis at Nuremberg, and I have heard rumours it was purposely done. Too much and decapitation (actual, not essentially) will result. Measured drop should be quick, clean and painless _if done correctly_ under favourable circumstances. But, so should lethal injection, or for that matter electrocution or the gas chamber. Unfortunately, favourable circumstances and done correctly don’t always occur in judicial execution. Measured drop is perhaps less liable to go wrong, but still can and does. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/29 "2019-07-22T17:18:09Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I vaguely remember that one of the hangings after the Iraq invasion (perhaps Saddam Hussein’s) went really badly, with the person essentially being decapitated. Decapitation in that manner is going to be at least as quick as a “clean” drop and possibly quicker. In both cases the neck is broken and the spinal column damaged. The difference is whether the spinal nerves are crush or severed but from the viewpoint of the person suffering the damage I don’t think it makes a difference. It can make a difference to bystanders or the amount of mess to clean up afterward. > [@](#): > > Or the person can slowly, agonizingly, strangle. THAT is bad. > [@](#): > > I don’t think anyone in the US has had much experience with hanging for over a hundred years, so there’s going to have to be a learning curve. Delaware executed a person by hanging in 1996 so more recent than you suppose. The method was chosen by the condemned, who is on record of saying he didn’t want to be put to sleep like an animal (lethal injection was the other option). Prior to the hanging the authorities consulted others who had actually performed hangings, and calibrate the apparatus to take into account the condemned’s weight. Apparently, it was a “clean” hang, that is, produced immediately unconsciousness and a broken neck without decapitation. Aside from centuries of information on the topic compiled by executioners around the world, there are currently people who do this and who could be consulted or even imported for their expertise. There really is a lot of empirical information about this method of execution and it should be possible to do this in a manner avoiding slow death by strangulation… Disclaimer: personally, I’m anti-death penalty but if our society insists on doing it I’d prefer it be done in as quick, simple, and least painful a manner as possible. Hanging done as a “clean drop” is in the running for potential methods, but suffers from the reputation of lynchings which are done by amateurs and are frequently quite hideous. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/30 "2019-07-22T18:00:42Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I vaguely remember that one of the hangings after the Iraq invasion (perhaps Saddam Hussein’s) went really badly, with the person essentially being decapitated. Or the person can slowly, agonizingly, strangle. I don’t think anyone in the US has had much experience with hanging for over a hundred years, so there’s going to have to be a learning curve. > [@AK84](#): > > That’s the problem with the measured drop. Too little of a drop and the person is slowly strangled. Happened with some of the Nazis at Nuremberg, and I have heard rumours it was purposely done. > Too much and decapitation (actual, not essentially) will result. > Measured drop should be quick, clean and painless _if done correctly_ under favourable circumstances. But, so should lethal injection, or for that matter electrocution or the gas chamber. > Unfortunately, favourable circumstances and done correctly don’t always occur in judicial execution. > Measured drop is perhaps less liable to go wrong, but still can and does. > [@Broomstick](#): > > Decapitation in that manner is going to be at least as quick as a “clean” drop and possibly quicker. In both cases the neck is broken and the spinal column damaged. The difference is whether the spinal nerves are crush or severed but from the viewpoint of the person suffering the damage I don’t think it makes a difference. It can make a difference to bystanders or the amount of mess to clean up afterward. > THAT is bad. > Delaware executed a person by hanging in 1996 so more recent than you suppose. The method was chosen by the condemned, who is on record of saying he didn’t want to be put to sleep like an animal (lethal injection was the other option). Prior to the hanging the authorities consulted others who had actually performed hangings, and calibrate the apparatus to take into account the condemned’s weight. Apparently, it was a “clean” hang, that is, produced immediately unconsciousness and a broken neck without decapitation. > > Aside from centuries of information on the topic compiled by executioners around the world, there are currently people who do this and who could be consulted or even imported for their expertise. There really is a lot of empirical information about this method of execution and it should be possible to do this in a manner avoiding slow death by strangulation… > > Disclaimer: personally, I’m anti-death penalty but if our society insists on doing it I’d prefer it be done in as quick, simple, and least painful a manner as possible. Hanging done as a “clean drop” is in the running for potential methods, but suffers from the reputation of lynchings which are done by amateurs and are frequently quite hideous. **Moderating** **I’M NOT SURE WHAT PART OF “STICK STRICTLY TO THE QUESTION IN THE OP” YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND.** This thread is about lethal injection, not hanging, not decapitation or any other method. Further hijacks will be subject to a warning. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/31 "2019-07-22T22:09:12Z")
> [@bardos](#): > > Hope this is on topic: > > I think I’ve seen this thread before, don’t know its exact location on the site. Isn’t it obvious that a heroin overdose would be the most accessible and easy way to execute, if there does exist a death penalty and one opts for the chemical way? Lights out. But isn’t heroin a prohibited drug in the US? A state would need to persuade Congress to authorise its use. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/32 "2019-07-22T22:25:08Z")
Something like fentanyl would be very effective and quick, arguably more so than heroin… except for all the fentynal sellers who won’t sell to people intending to use it for execution of human beings. Carfentil might be even more effective except, again, for reluctance to sell it for execution purposes. Part of the problem with lethal injection is that people don’t want their products used to kill other people, at least not in the pharmaceutical industry. Trained medical personnel also don’t want to participate. So you have barely trained amateurs using less than ideal substances. The wonder isn’t that it sometimes goes wrong, but that it doesn’t do so more often. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2019, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/33 "2019-07-22T23:52:14Z")
Drugs such as phenobarbital, pentobarbital, fentanyl, morphine, diamorphine (well that last one not in the US), ketamine, propofol, xylazine, etc. are all legitimate drugs available for use in humans as well as non-human animals. So the problem is not really this versus that particular drug; that is not an issue at all. The issue, as has pretty much been covered, is that “killing people” is not an approved medical use, therefore groups executing people simply cannot buy these readily available chemicals through legitimate channels. (Maybe it is not such a bad thing that random people cannot simply walk into a local apothecary and get any dangerous drugs they want.) And even in eventual cases when it might be technically legal to sell them, no drug company, chemical supplier, or pharmacy wants to be the next Testa or IG Farben. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/34 "2019-07-23T01:24:19Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Apparently, it was a “clean” hang, that is, produced immediately unconsciousness and a broken neck without decapitation. I think that in the context of hanging, “immediate” is about 15 seconds. Concussion produces immediate unconsciousness, so I’m open to correction, but snapping the spinal cord doesn’t normally produce immediate unconsciousness, and blocking the carotid arteries doesn’t normally produce immediate unconsciousness, and most careful descriptions of hanging or decapitation don’t describe immediate unconsciousness. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/35 "2019-07-23T02:14:44Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Not just EU. When had California trying to buy execution drugs from a Pakistani manufacturer. Who declined. Even though Pakistan has a death penalty. > > Somehow, no one wants to be knowm as “_the Company which makes the drugs they use to snuff people_”. Interesting. I’d found various mentions of the EU policy when I’ve poked around on-line, but not other countries. Makes sense though - drug companies all over make their products to help patients, not to kill them. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/36 "2019-07-23T03:09:20Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > I think that in the context of hanging, “immediate” is about 15 seconds. > > Concussion produces immediate unconsciousness, so I’m open to correction, but snapping the spinal cord doesn’t normally produce immediate unconsciousness, and blocking the carotid arteries doesn’t normally produce immediate unconsciousness, and most careful descriptions of hanging or decapitation don’t describe immediate unconsciousness. **Moderating** **I’M NOT SURE WHAT PART OF “STICK STRICTLY TO THE QUESTION IN THE OP” YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND.** This thread is about lethal injection, **not hanging,** not decapitation or any other method. Further hijacks will be subject to a warning. Colibri General Questions Moderator [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/37 "2019-07-23T03:13:52Z")
> [@kopek](#): > > I have no idea so I have to ask; could it be that the human knowing it is a lethal injection be somehow reacting, or physically fighting the drug, more than an animal in an unusual setting (for it) would? In other words; the human knows he/she is about to die and the pet probably does not. Does that kick in something physiological and psychological at the same time? Assuming that the first shot injected into a human is a sedative or anesthetic, I don’t think there is a way for a human to “fight” it. It’s going to put you to sleep whether you like it or not. Unless you meant the condemned deliberately struggling against the restraints in order to make the drug’s effect look bad as long as he had the conscious ability to do so. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/38 "2019-07-23T04:14:11Z")
The unfortunate animals these days definitely tend to get an initial (overdose of) sedative before the second injection. Presumably a human would get the same. No idea if sedatives would be easier or harder for executioners to get their hands on than other drugs like barbiturates. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/39 "2019-07-23T06:41:19Z")
This excerpt from Wikipedia talks about the procedure: "Following connection of the lines, saline drips are started in both arms. This, too, is standard medical procedure: it must be ascertained that the IV lines are not blocked, ensuring the chemicals have not precipitated in the IV lines and blocked the needle, preventing the drugs from reaching the subject. A heart monitor is attached to the inmate.[24] In most states, the intravenous injection is a series of drugs given in a set sequence, designed to first induce unconsciousness followed by death through paralysis of respiratory muscles and/or by cardiac arrest through depolarization of cardiac muscle cells. The execution of the condemned in most states involves three separate injections (in sequential order): Sodium thiopental or pentobarbital:[25] ultrashort-action barbiturate, an anesthetic agent used at a high dose that renders the person unconscious in less than 30 seconds. Depression of respiratory activity is one of the characteristic actions of this drug.[26] Consequently, the lethal-injection doses, as described in the Sodium Thiopental section below, will—even in the absence of the following two drugs—cause death due to lack of breathing, as happens with overdoses of opioids. Pancuronium bromide: nondepolarizing muscle relaxant, which causes complete, fast, and sustained paralysis of the skeletal striated muscles, including the diaphragm and the rest of the respiratory muscles; this would eventually cause death by asphyxiation. Potassium chloride: a potassium salt, which increases the blood and cardiac concentration of potassium to stop the heart via an abnormal heartbeat and thus cause death by cardiac arrest." Source: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal\_injection](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_injection) ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/40 "2019-07-23T07:00:56Z")
An execution is (ideally) supposed to be quick, clean and painless. As the saying goes, _pick any two_. A lethal injection will more or less guarantee death, the dosages involved in each are typically well in the lethal range for _each_ of the drugs. What does not guarentee (unless it goes totally right) is lack of suffering bit. The scheme is supposed to go, as said above, i) knockout, ii) breathing, iii) heart. Now if the procedure isn’t done right, then the poor bugger can look forward to a rather painful and prolonged death. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423.md?page=3)