# Death Penalty options **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 22, 2019, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423 "2019-07-22T01:20:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![boffking](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/858c86/32.png) [@boffking](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boffking)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/41 "2019-07-23T12:04:08Z")
> [@mbh](#): > > Some studies have found no correlation. > Some studies have found significant correlation. > The only thing that has been conclusively proven, is that you can cherry-pick the data to produce the result you want. One thing that is 100% proven is that the death penalty won’t bring back the victim. ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/42 "2019-07-23T12:48:25Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Assuming that the first shot injected into a human is a sedative or anesthetic, I don’t think there is a way for a human to “fight” it. It’s going to put you to sleep whether you like it or not. > > Unless you meant the condemned deliberately struggling against the restraints in order to make the drug’s effect look bad as long as he had the conscious ability to do so. A combination of both really. But more in lines of the OP; is there something in the drugs used on animals that can be/cause different reactions with the presence or large amounts of adrenaline? My apologies for not being able to make it totally clear but its just part of a question that has been filtering around my brain for a few years. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/43 "2019-07-23T13:44:53Z")
> [@boffking](#): > > One thing that is 100% proven is that the death penalty won’t bring back the victim. **Moderator Warning** Considering that there are not one, but three, instructions to refrain from remarks like this, in enormous red letters, plus two previous warnings, this is a warning for failure to follow moderator instructions. (I’m sorry, but the font I used was the largest available.) Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/44 "2019-07-23T13:49:49Z")
> [@AWB](#): > > Why isn’t the same chemical that is used to euthanized animals used to execute criminals? Apparently, at least one state, Missouri, agrees with you. This article was written in August of 2017. [**Secret sedative: How Missouri uses pentobarbital in executions**](https://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/secret-sedative-how-missouri-uses-pentobarbital-executions#stream/0) > [@](#): > > Missouri will use two of its 34 vials of the sedative pentobarbital on Tuesday when it executes Marcellus Williams, who was convicted in the 1998 killing of Felicia Gayle, a former St. Louis Post-Dispatch reporter. > > The state has enough pentobarbital for 17 executions, Williams’ included, according to a document obtained by St. Louis Public Radio. No one except the state of Missouri knows where the stockpile comes from, despite lawsuits from inmates and media outlets. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/45 "2019-07-23T16:23:41Z")
If the state of Missouri will not reveal where it buys execution drugs, but other states have admitted they get them from some no-name pharmacy, it seems plausible they do the same thing. That makes one wonder why they have a problem replenishing their “stockpile” at all. All it takes is one aging pharmacist who is willing to take the risk of being forced to retire in case his or her identity gets leaked. Or is it completely illegal to sell these drugs without a doctor’s prescription? Another possibility is that, even with drugs available, there is no way a medical professional would advise them in each case which ones to use, in what dosages, what method of administration, etc., much less conduct an execution. That could limit their choice of protocol to something (they think is) simpler and foolproof and could be carried out by non-professionals. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/46 "2019-07-23T16:43:17Z")
Could a state grant fund research for developing new chemical execution methods? I guess you still have a supply chain problem though. No chance that some genius on the state payroll comes up with a reliable and painless lethal drug cocktail made from household cleaning materials. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/47 "2019-07-23T16:52:07Z")
Never mind. ---
**Author:** ![lingyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d2c977/32.png) [@lingyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lingyi)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/48 "2019-07-23T17:22:26Z")
While there are numerous substances that when injected can cause instantaneous death, there’s no guarantee that they will work for everyone. Especially someone whose heart is racing and their adrenaline level is extremely high. Edit: Or their heartrate is extremely low, perhaps through something like yoga. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/49 "2019-07-24T03:31:35Z")
Secobarbitol and pentobarbitol are used for humans, for physician-assisted suicide. [Per this link](https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/742070_3), they are used at much higher doses for this purpose, than when used to let a patient sleep. So the answer to the OP is yes, those same drugs (I assume your kitten received one of them) could indeed be used for execution. I know nothing about their use IV and it wouldn’t surprise me if there was some backlash by the manufacturers if they were to be used in the future. The one time we had to have a cat euthanized, the vet came to the house. She first attempted to get a vein, which hurt the cat and resulted in both the cat and me howling. She then dosed him by injecting into his abdomen, which was much slower but ultimately had the needed effect. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/50 "2019-07-24T04:10:27Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > So the answer to the OP is yes, those same drugs (I assume your kitten received one of them) could indeed be used for execution. I know nothing about their use IV and it wouldn’t surprise me if there was some backlash by the manufacturers if they were to be used in the future. Pentobarbital was specifically mentioned by name in the previous link regarding Missouri. The manufacturer won’t sell it to them, has asked third-party distributors not to, and the state won’t say how they got any in the first place. So the horse seems to have left the barn as far as future executions are concerned. > [@](#): > > The one time we had to have a cat euthanized, the vet came to the house. She first attempted to get a vein, which hurt the cat and resulted in both the cat and me howling. She then dosed him by injecting into his abdomen, which was much slower but ultimately had the needed effect. [This article](https://www.petmd.com/blogs/dailyvet/2009/october/21-4845) affirms that the two-part injection method is preferred to a single intraperitoneal injection of barbiturates, because with that method the animal takes too long to fall into a slumber, the process is not as predictable, and the two-injection approach seems much more peaceful. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/51 "2019-07-24T05:39:31Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderating** > > This being GQ, there is no need to turn this into a debate on the death penalty. If you want to do so, start a thread in Great Debates. > > **STICK STRICTLY TO THE QUESTION IN THE OP.** > > Further hijacks will be subject to a warning. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator > [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderating** > > **I’M NOT SURE WHAT PART OF “STICK STRICTLY TO THE QUESTION IN THE OP” YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND.** > > This thread is about lethal injection, not hanging, not decapitation or any other method. > > Further hijacks will be subject to a warning. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator > [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderating** > > **I’M NOT SURE WHAT PART OF “STICK STRICTLY TO THE QUESTION IN THE OP” YOU DON’T UNDERSTAND.** > > This thread is about lethal injection, **not hanging,** not decapitation or any other method. > > Further hijacks will be subject to a warning. > > Colibri > General Questions Moderator Who died and made you king? You really, really, REALLY need to take a deep breath, step away from the computer for a day or so, and calm down. Some of us are trying to have a calm, rational discussion about the method of carrying out the death penalty, which is a subset of the death penalty in general. Your whining, screaming, and general temper tantrums are detracting from that. Grow up, quit acting like a spoiled brat, and learn how to function in adult society. Now, turning to the subject at hand– Personally, I tend to be opposed to lethal injection, largely because of the issues noted in the OP. In a perfect world, lethal injection would probably be a good choice, but as noted in this thread, a whole bunch of anti-death penalty zealots have knowingly and deliberately made that method difficult. To answer the question in the OP: It’s largely if not entirely down to a failure of political will. If veterinary drugs are illegal to use on humans, the law could be changed. But it probably never will be. Similarly, a law could be passed defining assistance at executions to not be a violation of medical ethics. But that won’t happen either. Since we have to take things as we find them, and not as how we would like them to be, it’s probably best to write off lethal injection as a lost cause, and turn to other methods for the death penalty. As others have noted, hanging–on balance–is probably the best. Although the guillotine has certain advantages as well. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/52 "2019-07-24T06:02:09Z")
Skipping over the bits that are property the concern of the mods! > [@Flyer](#): > > . . . Similarly, a law could be passed defining assistance at executions to not be a violation of medical ethics. But that won’t happen either. I think you have a hazy idea of the concept of “ethics”. The law cannot dictate what is or is not ethical. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2019, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/53 "2019-07-24T12:13:16Z")
**Moderator Warning** > [@Flyer](#): > > Who died and made you king? > > You really, really, REALLY need to take a deep breath, step away from the computer for a day or so, and calm down. Some of us are trying to have a calm, rational discussion about the method of carrying out the death penalty, which is a subset of the death penalty in general. Your whining, screaming, and general temper tantrums are detracting from that. Grow up, quit acting like a spoiled brat, and learn how to function in adult society. If you have a problem with the moderation, you may bring up any concerns in ATMB. You may not go on a Pit-style rant against any mod, in any forum, including in the Pit. This is an official warning for pitting a moderator, insults, and behavior inappropriate for the General Questions forum. If you continue to attack the moderation staff, you will find your posting privileges under review. Do not do this again. If you have further comments, make them in ATMB. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/54 "2019-07-25T16:14:56Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > At any rate, [pentobarbitol](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentobarbital) is commonly used for animal euthenasia. It has also been used in some cases as a lethal injection drug. Attorney General William Barr [has decided that death penalty by lethal injection will resume](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/attorney-general-death-penalty-william-barr_n_5d39b9e7e4b0419fd3391ef7), and > [@](#): > > Barr directed the BOP on Thursday to adopt an addendum to the protocol, replacing the three-drug procedure with a single drug — pentobarbital. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/55 "2019-07-25T18:07:56Z")
If we’re going to have court-ordered executions in the US - and it looks like we will, at least in some states, for the foreseeable future - I’ve never understood why we don’t just use carbon monoxide, which thousands of people have used to kill themselves pretty much since cars were invented. Futzing around with various drug combinations seems needlessly complicated to me. ---
**Author:** ![Frank\_Burly](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frank_burly/32/24_2.png) [@Frank\_Burly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank_Burly)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/56 "2019-07-25T18:37:28Z")
The death penalty is expensive and barbaric, America should join the 21st century and abolish it. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2019, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423/57 "2019-07-25T18:44:11Z")
I give up. Since the basic question in the OP seems to have been answered, and this thread has become something of a train wreck, rather than continue to hand out warnings I’m going to close this. If you wish to discuss methods of execution or the morality of the death penalty, open a new thread in Great Debates. Colibri General Questions Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-penalty-options/837423.md?page=2)