# Death Row emptied in Illinois, courtesy of soon-ex Gov. Ryan **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 12, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077 "2003-01-12T04:14:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/1 "2003-01-12T04:14:00Z")
Extremely lame duck Governor George Ryan has just commuted the sentences of all Illinois Death Row inmates. (My IE is acting up, or I’d post a link; anyone else so inclined, please feel free.) All 167 of them, no matter how short a sentence they had already served. OK, I’m no kill-'em-all-and-let-God-sort-'em-out conservative; I have some really severe hangups about the death penalty, especially as it has historically been applied in Illinois. However, it seems grossly unjust to just release all these people, as even if some of them were not deserving of the death penalty (we’ve historically had a bit of a prosecutorial misconduct problem here in Illinois, not to mention a small police torture problem) at least some of them will serve sentences which are far shorter than IMO the severity of their crimes warrants. Was there any better way to handle this issue? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/2 "2003-01-12T04:22:26Z")
As far as I can tell from the news reports, he didn’t “release” them: he gave them life in prison without parole. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/3 "2003-01-12T04:22:29Z")
Here’s the article: [Ryan issues blanket clemency](http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-030111clemency,1,6393681.story?coll=chi%2Dnews%2Dhed) In contrast with the OP, the above article says that “most of the state’s 156 condemned prisoners will now serve terms of life in prison without parole.” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/4 "2003-01-12T04:29:21Z")
[Linkage](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030111_1639.html). I think this a great and ballsy thing for the governor to do. Nobody’s getting out of prison, virtually all of them wills serve life without parole. We know for a fact that the death penalty system isn’t fair and that innocent people have been sent to death row > [@](#): > > _from the article_ > Ryan on Friday went a step farther in four other death row cases, issuing pardons for four men he said had been tortured by police into making false confessions. Bravo! What’s the fucking problem here, you should be applauding. ---
**Author:** ![rushtopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@rushtopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rushtopher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/5 "2003-01-12T04:29:33Z")
During this whole mess with the death penalty I find myself constantly asking, “What about the people with life sentences that are innocent? What about the people serving 20 years?” The problem as I see it is that Ryan has decided that the problem is the death penalty. The death penalty is morally right or wrong, depending on your point of view, however that is irrelevant to the larger problem that Illinois clearly has which is that in this state we apparently routinely put people in jail that haven’t commited a crime. The travesty is that nobody with a sentence other than death has a large group of people out there fighting for them like people with the death penalty do, since there are so many people against the death penalty but hardly anyone is against prison time. Of course that’s just my opinion, and a complete tangent. It seems to me that reforms need to be made in the justice system at large, rather than merely commuting the sentences of a bunch of people many of whom are probably guilty. It should be noted that all but 3 will be serving life without parole, so the concern about sentencing is probably unwarranted. Here is a link [http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20030112/ap\_on\_re\_us/death\_penalty\_ryan\_41](http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&ncid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20030112/ap_on_re_us/death_penalty_ryan_41) ---
**Author:** ![rushtopher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e47774/32.png) [@rushtopher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rushtopher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/6 "2003-01-12T04:35:32Z")
Wow simulpost a-go-go. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/7 "2003-01-12T04:37:48Z")
What else could he do? Nobody else had the power to make a difference. 13 men scheduled to die had been proven completely innocent. Who knows who else was waiting to die for something they didn’t do? America’s hatred of criminals goes beyond justice, certainly light years beyond reform. We put people with drug problems and mental problems in cages where psychotic behavior is a survival skill. Very few human beings deserve that kind of punishment. We even joke about anal rape in prisons like it was a matter of mild indifference to us. I dont know who’s quote it is, about measuring the civilization by how it treats its prisoners. By that standard we have nothing whatever to be proud of. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/8 "2003-01-12T04:41:31Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > \*\*[Linkage](http://abcnews.go.com/wire/US/ap20030111_1639.html). > I think this a great and ballsy thing for the governor to do. . \*\* Gutsy? Ballsy? Please! Ryan was a lame duck governor who knew he wouldn’t face any consequences for his actions. He’s a coward. If he’d pledged to do something like this BEFORE seeking office, now THAT might have required some courage. Moreover, I view it as a desperation move for some good press. Ryan is the stupidest, most incompetent, and (above all) most corrupt governor Illinois has had in years. His incompetence and corruption have shattered the Republican party in Illinois (the Republicans have rarely lost the governor’s mansion in Illinois, but good ol’ George took care of that!). Ryan SHOULD be remembered for his unprecedented incompetence- but with this last-minute measure, he’s guaranteed himself some good press from liberals in the media. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/9 "2003-01-12T04:43:32Z")
Ryan deserves the Nobel Peace prize for this. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/10 "2003-01-12T04:44:47Z")
I find this to be very agreeable: "“Because the Illinois death penalty system is arbitrary and capricious — and therefore immoral — I no longer shall tinker with the machinery of death,” Ryan said, borrowing the words of former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Harry Blackmun. “I won’t stand for it … I had to act.” Even if this was a way to distract from his earlier corruptions, it’s still a redeeming move for him. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/11 "2003-01-12T04:51:04Z")
**Astorian** , what the hell else is a governor supposed to do when he finds out that thirteen death row inmates are innocent? Do you care that four death row inmates had their confessions tortured out of them? Do you think it takes political courage to _support_ the death penalty? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/12 "2003-01-12T04:56:43Z")
I think its bullshit. If he had certain convicts that he felt were innocent then maybe he could have pulled a Clinton and just pardoned them. But to pardon the entire death row is a crock. This man took his PERSONAL beliefs and make a major GOVERNMENTAL decision based on nothing more than his own thoughts. Illinois has the death penalty for a reason. Agree with it or not once a court has convicted someone of a crime for which the state believes they should pay the ultimate price, no one man should be able to throw that out the window. Think of how many millions of dollars were probably spent prosecuting those felons. Just wait a few days when the list of death row inmates starts circulating. You will see child raper/murderers. serial killers, and who knows what else. I am not saying EVERY one of them were guilty, but that is no reason to commute EVERY one of those pieces of trash. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/13 "2003-01-12T05:01:23Z")
Let’s not forget that Ryan did put a moratorium on the death penalty in 2000 citing the problems he cited today. More info: [National Death Penalty Moratorium Act of 2001’](http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/rights/hrpage/hr1038.htm) Interesting facts there that need to be taken in consideration before ever applying the death penalty (I’m biased against the death penalty, but that’s a different debate). Highlights: Eighty percent of Federal death row inmates are members of minority groups. The Department of Justice report shows that white defendants are more likely than black defendants to negotiate plea bargains saving them from the death penalty in Federal cases. In the most comprehensive review of modern death sentencing, Professor James Liebman and researchers at Columbia University found that, during the period 1973 to 1995, 68 percent of all death penalty cases reviewed were overturned due to serious constitutional errors. In the wake of the Liebman study, 6 States (Arizona, Maryland, North Carolina, Illinois, Indiana, and Nebraska), as well as the Chicago Tribune and the Texas Defender Service are conducting additional studies. These studies may expose additional problems. With few exceptions, the rate of error was consistent across all death penalty States. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/14 "2003-01-12T05:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > _Stinkpalm_ > I think its bullshit. If he had certain convicts that he felt were innocent then maybe he could have pulled a Clinton and just pardoned them. But to pardon the entire death row is a crock. This man took his PERSONAL beliefs and make a major GOVERNMENTAL decision based on nothing more than his own thoughts. He didn’t _pardon_ them, he _commuted_ them. Do you understand the difference? > [@](#): > > I am not saying EVERY one of them were guilty, but that is no reason to commute EVERY one of those pieces of trash Oh, well, as long as not _all_ of them are innocent, we might as well kill them. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/15 "2003-01-12T05:08:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stinkpalm \* > \*\*…I am not saying EVERY one of them were guilty, but that is no reason to commute EVERY one of those pieces of trash. \*\* But they _are_ guilty. Every single one of them. They all had their day in court; they were all found guilty and sentenced to die. Question for the law-ologists out there: Can incoming Gov. Blagojevich, in theory at least, ‘uncommute’ these criminals? ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/16 "2003-01-12T05:11:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \* > [Oh, well, as long as not _all_ of them are innocent, we might as well kill them. :rolleyes: \*\* Apparently you missed this part of my post: > [@](#): > > If he had certain convicts that he felt were innocent then maybe he could have pulled a Clinton and just pardoned them. Please take the time to read and fully absorb the post before you start with the eye rolling, M’kay? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/17 "2003-01-12T05:14:45Z")
Nope. The law in Illinois is pretty absolute on the irreversable nature of a governor’s poer to commute sentences or pardon prisoners. I will bet my paycheck against yours that some of the commuted sentences will be pardoned altogether when it is discovered they did not commit the crimes they were convicted of. ---
**Author:** ![greenphan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c37758/32.png) [@greenphan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenphan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/18 "2003-01-12T05:15:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stinkpalm \* > \*\*But to pardon the entire death row is a crock. \*\* To call something you don’t understand a crock is a crock. He pardoned 4 men who he believed were innocent; the rest of the convicts (minus 4 who got reduced sentences) were given life sentences without the possibility of parole. A big difference between commutations and pardons; in your little misinformed world, Ryan just let hundreds of killers loose on the streets but in reality, he just changed the length of their sentences. Instead of dying in a year by a needle, they’ll get stabbed in the back, cancer, or some other malady and die in jail. We still get their lives; just now, they have years in which to prove their innocence before “justice” comes collecting. > [@](#): > > Agree with it or not once a court has convicted someone of a crime for which the state believes they should pay the ultimate price, no one man should be able to throw that out the window See, the funny thing about that is there are people who have the power to do that; they’re called governors. Hey, isn’t Ryan a…? What about appeal court judges? Should they be allowed to “throw [the death penalty] out the window”? > [@](#): > > This man took his PERSONAL beliefs and make a major GOVERNMENTAL decision based on nothing more than his own thoughts Uh, yeah. And twenty years ago, when Ryan was in the legislature, he was one of the people who voted to reinstate the death penalty. He decided, after conferring with families of victims and inmates, lawyers and the clergy, that the application of the death penalty in Illinois is unfair. He made a decision and, as a governor, had the authority to do something with his decision. He made the decision as governor of Illinois, not as George Ryan and the governor of Illinois has the authority to decide the fate of those convicted in the state. > [@](#): > > Think of how many millions of dollars were probably spent prosecuting those felons. Are you suggesting Illinois should execute them because we’ve already spent the money to put them on death row? -greenphan ---
**Author:** ![Cubsfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Cubsfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cubsfan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/19 "2003-01-12T05:22:12Z")
Ok, let me make something clear right now before the grammar police keep hitting this brick wall. I know the difference between pardon and commute, I mistyped what I was saying. Thank you and move on. > [@](#): > > See, the funny thing about that is there are people who have the power to do that; they’re called governors Whoopie! I think we already know that. Thanks for stating the obvious though. I think the point of my statement was that he should NOT be able to do that. What was your point? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2003, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077/20 "2003-01-12T05:25:24Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stinkpalm \* > \*\* > Whoopie! I think we already know that. Thanks for stating the obvious though. I think the point of my statement was that he should NOT be able to do that. What was your point? \*\* Well, that’s getting off topic as to what powers should be bestowed upon a governor, or what powers should be taken away from a governor when we don’t agree with what they’re doing at that time. Talk about capricious. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-row-emptied-in-illinois-courtesy-of-soon-ex-gov-ryan/148077.md?page=2)