Except for the thirteen people who were proven fucking innocent!
Are you a hundred percent sure that they are the only ones, or do you even care?
Did you not say this?:
I ask again, do you understand the difference between a pardon and a commutation?
As for your ingenius suggestion that only the innocent people receive commutations, how the hell is he supposed to know who the innocent people are. What’s a worse mistake, to make a guilty person do life without parole, or to kill an innocent person?
Maybe he can pick it up while he’s on bond for the licenses for bribes scandal. Or accept it in the name of the 6 people who were killed that started the investigation. Maybe he’ll donate the stipend to the State of Illinois which he left in horrible economic shape after his Illinois First program poured money into his croneys pockets. Or maybe he’ll shred the paperwork, like those that were done concerning the investigation into him.
I posted this part earlier in MPSIMS earlier today, and I’ll elaborate once my temper settles down. That may take awhile though:
He had the legal power to do it. If you don’t like it, then don’t give governors such powers.
—I am not saying EVERY one of them were guilty, but that is no reason to commute EVERY one of those pieces of trash.—
If the system has proven incapable of applying the death penalty equitably and fairly (instead of capriciously), and is given to a high number of people in a state where there has been widespread misconduct that can’t be easily tracked down or specified to any one case, then it does seem reasonable to, if you have the power to do so, decide that it simply cannot be trusted as part of the justice system. And, in fact, he had the power to do so.
—Illinois has the death penalty for a reason.—
And it also has a governor capable of blanket commuting it… or was that not done for a reason as well?
Oh. I’m sorry. I misunderstood you. I thought you just disagreed with George Ryan’s actions. I didn’t know that you wanted to strip governors of some of their power.
Who then gets the power to pardon and free wrongfully convicted prisoners? The courts who got Illinois in the jam in the first place? Or the juries? Lord knows how reliable they are.
Hamlet, I’ll take your word for it that Ryan is corrupt, but how does that make this particular act unworthy? Do you dispute the problems with the equity of the Illinois death penalty? are you ready to state categorically that it’s impossible for anyone on death row to be innocent?
I will refer you to my last post where I explicitly covered this for you. Make sure you read everything and absorb it before posting.
Let me repeat myself. If HE feels the need to commute sentences because there are people HE believes are innocent then commute THOSE peoples sentences, not every fucking monster on deathrow. That is a PERSONAL agenda of his, not of the state of Illinois.
How can you tell the difference between the innocent people and the “fucking monsters”? Remember that the courts are the ones who put the innocent people on death row in the first place. If not the governor, then who?
And yes, George Ryan probably did this partially to save face and to keep his tenure from being a complete loss. Regardless, its’ still a wonderful first step in stopping people from equating revenge with justice.
What’s wrong with personal conscience? It was a “personal agenda” when Lincoln freed the slaves. How about giving credit to a governor who did the right thing. Why are you so eager to kill people who you don’t know are guilty?
I also think it is a bunch of bullshit. This is nothing but a woody eposode for the anti-death penalty crowd. I did applaud him when he put all death sentences on moratorium. That was a fair and decent thing to do in light of the blatant problems. But, with one stroke of the pen, this ego-maniac decided to null the state law and judgements of uncounted jurers and judges for decades. And it isn;t as paltry as deciding that spitting on the sidewalk shouldnt be a felony. The death penalty is the worse punishment we can give to criminals in this country. We do not torture them, or otherwise use cruel and unusual punishment. And for some dick of a governer decides to erase that “just because he can” is a farce to justice.
If he really wanted justice, he should have kept them all on moratorium and established some kind of fact finding group to study each case. Once they were, again, proven to be guilty without a reasonable doubt then their death sentence gets re-instated. But, no this ass wants to do something grand before he steps down in disgrace. reminds me alot of the Rich pardon bullshit.
For commuting the sentence of every murder and most violent criminal in his state who deserved death? Bullshit. He should be charged with gross negligence. The only people who benefited from this abuse of powers are convicted murderers and anti-death penalty cry babies. The reast of the country just got a royal reaming by some wanna-be.
OK, I have egg on my face for not knowing the difference between a pardon and a commutation. Well, it’s easy to be confused; I listened to 3 separate news stories tonight, none of which explained it. (That’s what I get for believing the local broadcast media!) All the stories focused on how pissed off the victims’ famillies were that “justice hasn’t been done,” and that “the killers of their loved ones would walk free.” There was no differentiation between the 167 overall and the 4 who were pardoned for grave flaws in the prosecutorial/judicial process.
I have much less of a problem with Ryan’s decision now, as it seems to be purely a death penalty issue (whether motivated by Ryan’s sincere change of heart, or by his desire to go down in history, I don’t presume to know for sure). I somehow doubt, though, that Harry Blackmun would appreciate being compared to Ryan.
He didn’t do anything “just because he can”; he holds a sincere belief that the death penalty was being applied unfairly in his state. I’m sure he did the commutation now for two reasons: 1) becuase, as everyone is saying, he is trying to leave his tenure on an upnote after numerous scandals and 2) the new governor would probably not do it (not passing the buck and all that).
And you’re right in saying that the death penalty is the worst punishment we can give to people, which is one of the reasons why it’s immoral. Jesus thought so. But I digress.
You are very wrong in saying that Gov. Ryan acted on a whim. He’s probably been thinking about what can be done since the moritoriam was declared several years ago. He just decided to do it right before he exits office.
I support his action for many reasons, not the least of which is the pure entertainment value of watching the law n’ order crowd get their knickers in a bunch because we didn’t kill them all and let God sort them out. Like poking an anthill with a stick, you can bet Rush and all his little goose-steppers will talk of nothing else for days. And I can’t wait to see that big vein throbbing on Ashcroft’s forehead when he puts in his two cents worth, with that little spittle ball quivering on his lip. I love it!!
BTW, Since clinton keeps getting mentioned, Clinton didnt do anything pardon-wise that every other president before him didnt do. Includeing bush sr, reagan, and Baby bush assuradely will do.
Bull. If he believed that then he should have submitted legislation to change the law. He commuted everyone just because he could. He had no reason to commute them when they were already on moratorium. Illinois wasn’t killing innocent people or anything. They wern’t killing anyone. He did it just because he could. And because he decided to do it just before he left that makes it a whim in my book. Not the thaughts, but the action. For him to do an irredeemable act right before he leaves strikes me of nothing but cowardice.
And just because it is our worse punishment, thta makes it immoral? I don’t see the logic in that. And I must have missed when it was decided Jesus would make our laws? The fact is that the death penalty is a legal and promoted form of punishment by the state. When a criminal is found guilty of an henious enough crime then that is their reward. It is the law. It is supported by a majority of his constituents. He has the pardon power to be able to commute or pardon select criminals who where either innocent or not deserving of punishement. But to blanket a whole populous to make a point is above and beyond pardoning powers. So I submit again, that he did it just because he could.
There are some instances where it was the right thing to do. But in most I would wager that it was wrong. And therefore unjust.
I also forgot to add that since is was a blanket commuting, it unfairly gives a lesser sentence to all those “deserving” death, compared to those that have already died or those that will be after Georgie-boy leaves. It doesn’t matter if you are for or against it. The fact is it is law. And that makes a mockery of that law past, present, and future.
—Once they were, again, proven to be guilty without a reasonable doubt then their death sentence gets re-instated.—
The issue isn’t simply that the clients are guilty or not. The issue is that the death penalty was being applied in an arbitrary manner: according to the people the Gov listens to, whether you got it or not seemed to depend less on the nature of the crime, and more on money, political connections, race, political needs of prosecutors, etc.