He was right to prevent the murder of innocent people and took whatever measures were within his means.
Is that plain enough for you ?
You see you can argue about constitutional niceties all you like, but he has prevented 13 murders, and your rights mean absolutely nothing in this regard.
Except Gov.-elect Rod Blagojevich has already promised to keep the moratorium intact. Of course, you could actually answer the question, should Fedell Caffey be granted a commutation? If so, why?
Yeah, and we know politicians always keep their promises!
Like I said, this was the only way he could be sure.
And I’ve already responded to your other issue. So complain all you want, but until you address my points, I see no reason to worry about you repeating yourself.
David B, I fear we have a misunderstanding here, on my part. What are your points, so I can address them?
A couple interesting quotes from the ABC News article linked on the front page:
"Our capital system is haunted by the demon of error error in determining guilt, and error in determining who among the guilty deserves to die," Ryan said. "What effect was race having? What effect was poverty having?"
"The great, great majority of these people that have petitioned for commutation … did not even contest their guilt," said Peoria County State’s Attorney Kevin Lyons. "He’s disingenuous when he says that certainty is the issue."
Why are these men having their sentences commuted?
I don’t have any personal connection with any of the other 150+ inmates affected by this commutation, but I do know one family who just had justice snatched from them by a man who took a “courageous” stand to ease his own conscience during the final minutes of his political career.
Jeff Rissley, a middle-class white man, abducted a little 6 year old girl named Kayla Lansing while she was roller skating. He killed her and stashed her body in an Iowa barn. When he was caught, he led the police to her body. He pled guilty and received a sentence of death. Later he unsuccessfully appealed his sentence (all the way to the IL Supreme Court) because his inexperienced PD didn’t advise him to get a better deal for pleading guilty.
Jeff Rissley-- Confessed Child Murderer
I’ve known the Lansing family since Kindergarten. My sister is engaged to Kayla’s uncle. I have a hard time seeing how justice was done here.
Ryan’s stand against the death penalty system is a fine one. His suggested reforms are laudable. I have no desire to see any innocent person put to death, and in cases where there is reasonable doubt regarding guilt or innocence, we should err on the side of caution every time. Commutation is certainly not justified for Rissley.
Ryan has been talking about commuting sentences for quite a while, although always pointing out that blanket commutation wasn’t his goal. He set up clemency hearings and had a special commision go over each of the cases and make recommendations to him regarding each one. Why go through the motions of deciding inmates’ fates based on the merits of their cases only to end up rubber stamping the whole lot of them?
When people point to the 13 men whose convictions were overturned and say “How many more inncents are there waiting for execution?” I find it a reasonable argument. Since I personally know of one undeserved commutation, I have to think that there are probably more in there as well. Ryan had the findings of the clemency board he appointed. He had the opinions of judges, juries, and defense lawyers. Why didn’t he use them?
Ryan’s fight to fix the death penalty system was a good one, but the blanket commutation is hardly courageous. It costs him nothing politically, since his political future is already certain. It may however partially eclipse his scandal-ridden governorship, as well as increase his slim chance of receiving the Nobel. Certainly it assuages his conscience. In other words, he benefits far more than he loses from this move.
True courage would have involved fulfilling his duty to the people of Illinois. Making hard choices using the tools at his disposal based on the merits of the cases would have shown true courage.
One final note: I may have missed it, but I haven’t seen anything in the way of evidence regarding the four recently pardoned convicts’ assertions that the police tortured their confessions out of them. I understand that Ryan thinks it is so, but after living under his leadership over the past four years, I have developed some skepticism regarding his judgement.
Damn! My link to IDOC doesn’t work right. Well, if you click on “Inmate Search” and enter Rissley’s name you can get to the page.
I agree that this is a tragic case and an evil person was responsible, but do you want an innocent to die in the next chamber to them ?
Commutation was the only way of ensuring that no more innocents would die on death row.
There was finally no more time to review each case on its own and separately, and no absolute guaruntee that the moratorium on executions would last any longer than the next public opinion poll.
Killing this person might well be appropriate, but at the possible cost of the innocent, enough already, too many innocents are dead, there is no need for the state to include more.
I do believe you’ve answered your own question on this one. Ryan’s quote above… reread it… 'error in determining guilt, and error in determining who among the guilty deserves to die" (emphesis mine). This is what he means when he asks if race and poverty were issues. Reread the thread, you’ll see quite a few posters comment on how prosecuters choose when to aim for capital punishment. Obviously guilt isn’t the only issue here.
You say justice was snatched from the hands of one family but I have to question that. Was it really? Is LIFE in prison such a slap on the wrist you feel there is no punishment? Honestly if it were me I’d be glad… execution is a cop-out… I want the guy to suffer the FULL time. Why should he be dead when instead he could suffer and have time to reflect on his ways?
People can list awful cases all they want till they turn blue in the face… but it isn’t like these people are free on the streets. IMHO it makes no difference what so ever. The guilty are punished for the rest of their life… I see no loss for the victims.
Why? Lack of time is one good reason. Looking at the situation (13 convictions overturned, 4 parolled) it’s safe to say there was no reason to trust the system to handle things on it’s own. He had to do something… time was running out.
An intresting quote (url is in my last post) might help explain why it came down to the last minute… or even if it doesn’t I find it quite intresting nonetheless.
As far as courage goes… I hardly see where he lacked courage here. He’s obviously upset quite a few people and really rocked the boat on ths one. The democrat future gov is against it, I rather have a feeling his own party isn’t too pleased. In my eyes standing up and willingly pissing off a lot of people to do what you feel is right is qute courageous.
Casdave:
No, I don’t want any innocent to die. I simply do not believe the “I ran out of time” argument. There were months worth of hearings and deliberations over these cases, all the while Ryan maintained he was not considering a blanket clemency. The clemency board submitted findings and made recommendations, and I find it difficult to believe that they didn’t happen to note that over half of them didn’t dispute that they were, in fact, guilty as charged. Even if Ryan had only had time to review half of the cases, I am sure many who do not deserve commutation would have been revealed. He might have esaily commuted all the sentences over which there was some doubt, and let the rest stand.
Well, that’s not a whole lot of courage in my book. Ryan’s career was already over. It’s like telling your boss to kiss your ass at your retirement party.
No, but Dubya does believe in the almighty dollar, and he has plenty of rich friends who have been naughty.
It’s irrelevant how the family feels. The family does not have some all knowing ability to tell who is guilty and who isn’t.
The familt is not being harmed in any way by a commutation, to say that they are is just grandstanding.
Should the state respect the wishes of families who don’t support capital punishment? (such people do exist, you know) If you are not willing to support a family who wants life without parole instead of execution, then it is hypocritical to exploit victims who support capital punishment.
BTW, how would those victims feel if they later found out that they killed the wrong guy?
It certainly is plain enough, but this post outlines some of the specious logic that Gov. Ryan also used. First, you assume that there are innocent people who will be put to death. As I said before, I have no problem with the pardons he did on Friday assuming they were not guilty. I’m not the one who doesn’t care about the guilt or innocence of the people on death row, that’s Ryan’s gig. In granting a commutation to EVERYONE, regardless of their guilt or innocence, Ryan ignores the law, the legislature, and the juries that heard these cases.
The entire argument presented about the potential for innocent people being executed is a fine rationale if you want to argue the propriety of the death penalty, but it doesn’t stand up when you’re talking about what Ryan did.
And we aren’t arguing constitutional niceties, he does have the power, but HE did not prevent 13 murders, the appellate courts did. You could, I suppose, argue he prevented the 3 he pardoned murders, but they all still had appeals pending which may have resolved the cases.
Who are YOU to say what harm is being done? This family, whether you agree or not, believes that execution would be just.
That the promised justice is now taken away by executive decree is nothing less than a slap in their faces. Neither do they like to think that a tiny portion of every paycheck goes to keep Kayla’s murderer housed, fed, and cared for. Slap again.
I would hardly call their feelings that they have been ill-served by Ryan grandstanding. In fact, I can’t even figure out what you mean by that.
**
I am well aware that some victims do not support capital punishment. How does this apply here? Do you know of any cases where someone was sentenced to life in prison and the Governor suddenly decided to execute them instead?
**
Lets revisit the case for a moment. Rissley’s vehicle was seen in the vicinity of the crime. He was caught by the police in Michigan. He confessed to the crime, then gave police directions to a farmhouse in Iowa, where he had stashed the body. I’m thinking the “wrong guy” argument isn’t going to apply here. Hell, he never even tried to say he didn’t do it throughout his entire appeal process!
Personally, I am sick at heart with the entire situation. Having lost a brother by a hardened criminal, I am appauled at the Governor’s actions. Walk in the shoes of the victims or their families and I dont believe most of you would be standing so firm on your beliefs. Death penalties require a unanimous decision by the jury. An appeal is automatic with a Death Penalty. If we allow lame ducks to do what Ryan did, why have a jury at all? Lets allow the governors total control. I will pray that your families never have to go through losing someone to violence. The pain is incredible and when the justice system lets the perpetrator walk away, it’s truly a slap in the face. Life in prison vs Death penalty ?? The victims had no choice did they ? I visit my brothers grave. I dont get to see him, hold him or talk to him. Think carefully before you decide on this issue!
Please explain to me exactly how the family is being harmed. The perpetrator of the crime is doing life without parole. How is that unjust? It doesn’t matter how the family feels about it, it’s none of their business. We don’t base jurisprudence on the bloodthirsty feelings of victims. Victims can be irrational. Justice should be based on reason, not emotion. I referred the trotting out of victims as “grandstanding” because it is a cheap attempt to play on sentimentality rather than reason. I also think it’s hypocritical because prosecutors and politicians have no respect at all for victims who don’t support capital punishment. Are you willing to say that if a family does not wish to seek the death penalty in a case, then the state should respect that? Or are you really just interested in killing people because it’s so much fun?
I’m wondering if there are a whole bunch of other people doing time as a result of the same torture tactics? If Ryan was going to pardon those 4 guys because their trials/confessions were tainted, how about all of the other suspects convicted through evidence obtained in the same illegal manner by the same crooked cops?
As compelling as this frequently heard observation is, it adds little to the debate. If I was a family member of a murder victim I would certainly want to do unspeakable things to the perpetrator.
What, as a society, we should do to combat the crime of murder cannot be left in the realm of emotional gut reactions. If it is we scrap the trial process, appeals, constitutional rights and go straight to lynching or torture.
I think Ryan did the right thing. If taking an individual’s liberty away for their entire life is insufficient punishment then we simply do not have enough liberty.
Poverty and race were only two possible issues he posed, it was never limited to them. You asked why they are having their sentences commuted, the reason is that Ryan doubted the apparently faulty methods used to determine who lives and who dies. Considering how many people have been found innocent I’d have to agree the system is obviously faulty somewhere along the line.
Maybe I’ve just seen too many prison movies… I suppose it would vary though, some would prefer life others death. Some will have miserable lives in prison and others much more miserable lives. But two points I think are important. One, they ARE off the streets, society is safe (as it were). And two… nothing… not even blood… will bring that girl back. So where exactly was anybody to gain from the death… where is anybody at a loss now. I concede many would view even a life in prison as preferable to death but surely you wouldn’t consider that person ‘off the hook’?
As far as courage goes… I never meant to say he was particularly courageous, only that he certainly didn’t seem to lack it. And if commuting the whole state doesn’t sound like a “hard choice” to you then your way above my decision making skills. 
Ok… now I just have to say. A few people have posted examples of victims. What can I say? Of course its horrible, I have the upmost sympathy for the families and sincere disgust for the guilty (assuming of course they are… with this track record I wouldn’t know). I certainly would also expect more guilty then innocent out of the whole bunch… but… but.
What about the innocent? Yea yea… I know… you’re sick of it… but put yourselves in their shoes. They too are victims. These family’s also had loved ones taken away from the and submitted to one of the most horrible things our modern society has created. These people spent years in jail, they will be scarred for life. Were the executions to continue they could easily have lost their lives. I only mention this to point out, there are very sad stories on both sides of the issue.
When given the choice between an innocent family losing their innocent loved one or an innocent family losing their revenge (not justice… they are in prison for life) I just have to go for the former. Afterall… it’s a choice between life and revenge.
And Beagle… just read your post while i was previewing… I agree 100% and very well written. 
At least he did’nt commute John Wayne Gacy in time.
The most beautiful thing in the world is an orgy and a strong martini.
The real Hugh Hefner 1964 A.D