# Death to cats **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 24, 2005, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984 "2005-03-24T01:18:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/41 "2005-03-24T22:22:19Z")
If, according to **machtero’s** statistic, 1 million feral cats kill 26 million birds each year, that’s only a bird every two weeks. Hardly a massacre. When you consider that there are far fewer native predators now than there were in less populous times. One might consider that the feral cats are filling the niche vacated by formerly plentiful foxes, bobcats and weasels. StG ---
**Author:** ![Kiminy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Kiminy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiminy)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/42 "2005-03-24T23:29:15Z")
We have three un-neutered male cats on our cul-de-sac. Two of them ostensibly belong to one particular family, but ownership of the third is very vague as far as we can tell. All of them are 100% outdoor cats, too, even in snow and rain. The first two do get “garage privileges” and regular food. We assume that the third one is mooching off the privileges provided to the first two (along with plentiful “gifts” from our daughter who feels sorry for all three). I found out a few days ago that we are not the only ones on the cul-de-sac who are unhappy about this situation, especially the fact that none of them are neutered, and we are likely to experience an explosion of unwanted kittens in the neighborhood this spring. However, our community does have pet licensing laws, where owners are required to pay for annual pet licenses, even for 100% indoor animals. In addition, the fees are much higher for unneutered animals than for neutered ones. The fees go to support the local Humane Society shelter. The solution we have come up with in our neighborhood is to contact animal control to come and check pet licenses. If the “owners” refuse to pay, then the animals are taken to the shelter to find a new home. Those of us who care enough to take care of pets can certainly handle the $7.50 per neutered pet. However, I seriously doubt that the family in question is willing to shell out $60 for two unneutered cats. ---
**Author:** ![Boldface\_Type](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b5e925/32.png) [@Boldface\_Type](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boldface_Type)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/43 "2005-03-24T23:47:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > This is not The BBQ Pit. If you wish to bitch, go to the approprate forum an start a thread. If you wish to complain about a post or poster, use the _report this post_ button. However, it seems quite acceptable for **Machetero** to call people he disagrees with in this thread ‘unstable, disturbed individuals’ who are ‘quite dangerous’. Viva even-handedness! ---
**Author:** ![Pensandfeathers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Pensandfeathers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pensandfeathers)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/44 "2005-03-25T00:02:57Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Up until 5 years ago we lived in a suburb of medium-sized city, and cats were definitely problem in our neighborhood. Because it was illegal to discharge a firearm in the city limits, I would set out traps in the backyard. I was catching about one cat / week during the last summer we were there. I would take each cat over to my uncle’s house, submerse the cage in a deep spot in his creek for 15 to 20 minutes, and then dump the carcass in his 55-gallon burn drum. > > We now live out in the country, and cats haven’t been a problem. (In fact, we have two “outdoor only” cats we keep on hand for critter control.) But if cats ever do become a problem, I’d have no problem shooting them with my shotgun. > > _ **Dogs** _, on the other hand, have been an occasional problem. I shoot them with my .308 bolt action. Wow…just wow. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/45 "2005-03-25T01:20:55Z")
> [@overlyverbose](#): > > You did contact animal control, right? Yes - they seemed uninterested in a problem relating to predation on wild birds. Based on the faith that some responders seem to have in them, I will try once more - it would certainly be nice if some local authority were willing to take on what I (and one neighbor) alone seem to view as a serious problem. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/46 "2005-03-25T01:29:00Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > If, according to **machtero’s** statistic, 1 million feral cats kill 26 million birds each year, that’s only a bird every two weeks. Hardly a massacre. You seem to be implying that wheras one cat killing 100 birds a week would be bad, 100 cats killing a bird a week isn’t much. From the birds’ point of view, it’s much the same. I’d argue that the issue isn’t how many birds each cat kills so much as the total effect that cat predation has on bird populations. 26 million/year (or anything even approaching that) is serious. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/47 "2005-03-25T01:40:26Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > I suspect **Xema** is just trying to get a rise out of people with this line of posting, especially in a forum like the SDMB with so many avowed cat lovers. His monotone, cold, repetitive lines about killing the cats, protecting the birds, and preserving neighborhood harmony sound a bit contrived and “made up” to me. Sorry if it sounds that way, but I am sincere in this. I truly don’t see how the lives of three cats are worth those of dozens (more likely hundreds) of birds, particularly when the birds have a multi-thousand-year claim to these haunts, and the cats are quite recent interlopers. I guess I underestimated the cat-lover contingent here. I don’t consider myself one, but neither do I feel I’m any sort of a cat hater. Cats can be great pets (I have personal experience of this) - and very hard on wildlife when they’re allowed to roam (more personal experience). Nor do I feel that cat lovers (or any other group) should exert some special influence over the content of SDMB threads. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/48 "2005-03-25T01:48:21Z")
**Xema** - It was you who called it a “wholesale slaughter”. I merely pointed out that birds have always been on the bottom of the food chain, and that there are fewer indigenous predators around now to keep down the population. Think about it: most mating bird pairs are probably lucky to successfully raise 1 chick in 10 to full maturity. That’s just the way it is, for birds, for bunnies, for mice. Most birds can raised a couple clutches per year. Let’s say 8 chicks hatch. If all those chicks came to sexual maturity, you’d have problems of Hitchcockian proportions. We no longer have the populations of predatory birds and mammals that previously kept these populations in check. As one predator moves out, another fills its niche. It might not be the world as you’d like it, but that’s how it is. StG ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/49 "2005-03-25T01:49:56Z")
I think for all this talk of “cat lovers”, I can’t really see anybody in this thread playing the “awww the poor cute widdle kitty-witty” angle at all. The only opposition you’re getting is people saying, “maybe you should rethink your planned methods, and try trapping the cats”, and to your credit you seem fine with this. I’m acutely aware of the damage cats can do to the environment. If you think the situation is bad in North America (which had native cats), you should see the Australian scenario. Feral cats have absolutely decimated the local popuation of small mammals. We had _no_ native cats, and were were very light on for predatory carnivorous mammals of any sort. Our native fauna has no defence against cats. So I’d not hesitate to put a bullet through any feral cat I see outside of urban areas. In town though, things get murkier. The trap is really your only option. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/50 "2005-03-25T03:54:17Z")
I think trapping them would be the best way to go, too. Feral cats don’t have much life expectancy or quality of life - off to the shelter they go, for neutering, rehabilitation and adoption (ideally) or quick, painless euthanasia. Still better than starving to death or dying of disease, dogs, humans, or cars. By the way, if you do trap them, make sure you take them to the shelter ASAP. Cats go pretty nutty in cages and harm themselves. - featherlou, owner of two indoor-only cats ---
**Author:** ![Ice\_Wolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@Ice\_Wolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ice_Wolf)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/51 "2005-03-25T04:06:14Z")
I’m with the “trap 'em and humanely kill 'em” lobby. Feral cats are like the possum problem we have here (as well as cats, rats, stoats, ferrets, dogs …). They mess up the local ecology real quick if allowed to go wild. For cats, though – no drowning, no poisoning. If you’re going to take the time going to those extremes, you can take the time to take 'em to a shelter. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/52 "2005-03-25T04:21:45Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > It was you who called it a “wholesale slaughter”. True, and it was probably a bit of hyperbole. But if these 3 cats are each taking a couple dozen birds, it adds up to a lot. And they are obviously going to be most successful with a few species: towhees, ovenbirds, thrashers, bobolinks, etc. - the ground (and near-ground) nesters. So while their overall impact on the total bird population isn’t much, the impact on certain species may well be. > [@](#): > > I merely pointed out that birds have always been on the bottom of the food chain, and that there are fewer indigenous predators around now to keep down the population. If this were the whole story, birds would be flourishing. A respectable number are, but there are plenty of species that are in difficulty. > [@](#): > > If all those chicks came to sexual maturity, you’d have problems of Hitchcockian proportions. Well, a great many things besides predation limit the size of bird populations: food, suitable nesting habitat, territoriality, competition for mates, etc. And we do well to focus on the most troubled species, not the most successful. ---
**Author:** ![Queen\_Bruin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/e274bd/32.png) [@Queen\_Bruin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Queen_Bruin)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/53 "2005-03-25T04:43:13Z")
Myself, I hate birds. Cats, on the other hand, curl up in my lap. Birds on the other are too predisposed to chirping when I AM TRYING TO SLEEP GODDAMIT! My husband is on swing shift, fer godssakes. I’d poison birds if I could. They are stupid and have no personalities and are ALWAYS CHIRPING. I hate the bastards, myself. Stupid barely above reptile things. _sneer_ Think I’ll set my cats upon the little jerks. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/54 "2005-03-25T05:22:08Z")
So, **Xema** , do you think that cats as a species should only exist as pets? Do you think they should exist at all? ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/55 "2005-03-25T16:51:47Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > do you think that cats as a species should only exist as pets? I think wild cats should exist as wild cats, and pets should be pets (with pet owners feeling a strong duty to minimize the damage their pets do). An important challenge to humans is how to live on the earth without crowding out other species too badly. Letting our pets routinely kill dozens of members of inoffensive & untroublesome species is an effective way to undermine that goal. To take the example near me: There are about 20 houses on my street, housing perhaps 60 people. Bobolinks would no doubt like to see all houses and people gone and the entire area in tall grass, but they are quite happy to nest in the remaining meadow nearby (about 20 acres). Yet if each of those houses sends forth one pet cat to hunt in that meadow, it may well be the end of the bobolinks there. Can we not conclude that if cats were kept as indoor pets, we’d all be better off? Where’s the advantage to letting pet cats roam that offsets the considerable harm? ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/56 "2005-03-25T16:55:58Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > It’s a trifle hard to take your post seriously - as near as I can tell, none of the points you make is correct (except that I live in a human settlement). > > The cats in question didn’t migrate to my country - they were brought here by humans as pets and some have become wild, or partially so. Thus they are not native. The native birds they prey on have not had time (which would be measured in at least hundreds, probably thousands, of years) to evolve strategies to cope with this predation, and so some (especially those that nest near the ground, e.g. bobolinks) are seriously affected… A lot of the birds aren’t native, either. The English Sparrow and the European Starling, two of the most populous birds in North America, were intentionally imported by humans. Both these non-native species have thrived here, and their massive presence has altered the balance of other birds in the ecosystem. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/57 "2005-03-25T16:56:56Z")
On that much, we can agree. You seem more reasonable than some others…I hope you can see your way clear to a humane solution. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/58 "2005-03-25T16:58:04Z")
Pair post #57 with post #55, please. Maybe that’ll teach me to use “Reply with quote”. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/59 "2005-03-25T17:25:40Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > A lot of the birds aren’t native, either. The English Sparrow and the European Starling, two of the most populous birds in North America, were intentionally imported by humans. You’re right, though “a lot” may be a bit of a stretch if appled to species. Of the roughly 700 species seen in North America, I doubt that even a dozen could be counted as human-introduced exotics that have become widespread and a problem. I certainly agree that starlings are a nuisance. I routinely evict them (not always with full success) from cavities where natives such as bluebirds want to nest. ---
**Author:** ![Daithi\_Lacha](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/daithi_lacha/32/5430_2.png) [@Daithi\_Lacha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daithi_Lacha)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984/60 "2005-03-25T17:43:44Z")
Maybe contact a local chapter of the Audubon Society. I found [this link](http://www.audubon.org/local/cn/98march/cats.html) on their website. You’re certainly not alone in this situation, and it seems like there’s no easy solution. Good luck. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-cats/295984.md?page=4)