# Death to Wesley Crusher! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 8, 2014, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857 "2014-02-08T20:53:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/41 "2014-02-10T20:52:47Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > Well, revenge is a dish best served cold. So is [gazpacho.](http://http://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/gazpacho/) ---
**Author:** ![terentii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terentii/32/212_2.png) [@terentii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/terentii)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/42 "2014-02-10T21:09:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I always assumed that Picard had been having an affair with Dr. Crusher even before Mr. Crusher’s death, and that Wesley was actually his son. This is no doubt easily proven with 23rd century genetic tech, but everyone refrains from saying so out loud out of politeness. I heard or read somewhere recently that it was originally intended for him to be their son, but the writers or producers gave up on the idea very soon: they didn’t want to undermine the character of Picard by having him screw his dead best friend’s wife while he was still alive. (BTW, I had assumed the same thing after watching “Encounter at Farpoint.”) And yeah, Roddenberry said in one interview “Wesley is me at 14.” I was always amazed that he allowed children on board the \*Enterprise \*after rejecting NBC’s demands that kiddie space cadets be included in the animated series. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [February 10, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/43 "2014-02-10T21:47:37Z")
> [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](#): > > Wesley meet Borg. > Borg, meet Wesley. > > And then, Wesley develops an interesting character. Suddenly. As unit 4247 of 90000000000000000, the former Wesley Crusher becomes the Collective’s “dangerous untested new implant technology” drone, it’s first duty? Testing the new Antimatter based implants… ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/44 "2014-02-11T00:33:04Z")
I liked him alright once they gave him a proper uniform, but then when they had that episode where he came back and went off with that stupid looking alien guy, that was pretty bad. How to kill him off? I dunno, split by two in a transporter then murder suicide? Double the dead Wesley for all the haters. Wil Wheaton seems like a cool guy that would be fun to hang out with. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/45 "2014-02-11T01:39:57Z")
He should have been in the movies. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/46 "2014-02-11T02:12:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > He should have been in the movies. He was in two actually. Got cut from Nemesis and appears in a cameo as a Romulan in Star Trek (2009) ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/47 "2014-02-11T03:08:51Z")
> [@Dale\_Sams](#): > > He was in two actually. Got cut from Nemesis and appears in a cameo as a Romulan in Star Trek (2009) He’s credited in _Nemesis_ - at the end of the cast credits. I think he’s still in a background scene at the wedding. Ever hear the story about [Wheaton’s involvement (or lack thereof) in the Nemesis premiere](http://www.wilwheaton.net/mt/archives/001165.php)? ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/48 "2014-02-11T05:12:44Z")
> [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > He’s credited in _Nemesis_ - at the end of the cast credits. I think he’s still in a background scene at the wedding. > > Ever hear the story about [Wheaton’s involvement (or lack thereof) in the Nemesis premiere](http://www.wilwheaton.net/mt/archives/001165.php)? Oh that’s right (Hits self in head) his dialogue got cut. He can plainly be seen in Nemesis. Edit: I also thought he was very good in that Outer Limits episode. ---
**Author:** ![Hermione](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/cdc98d/32.png) [@Hermione](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermione)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/49 "2014-02-11T17:28:47Z")
> [@Garula](#): > > The problem as I see it is that the ways to make Wesley work as a character runs contrary to the Roddenberry vision of Star Trek. As I understand it, he was the one who insisted on a minimum of interpersonal conflict between core cast members. Even when they disagree everyone is pretty chummy. That utopian view of humanity moving past petty feuding in the future and whatnot. A brash, arrogant Wesley who has difficulty taking orders COULD work as a character, I think. (Note, I say ‘could’, as it could also be completely awful with bad writing.) Emphasize the fact that despite being a super genius he’s also an immature, rebellious teenager and you open up some interesting avenues for dramatic exploration. How much special privilege should we grant to people who are true geniuses? Should Wesley still be allowed to run experiments that could yield valuable results if he’s shown a reckless disregard for safety procedures? When he saves the day by disregarding direct orders, should he be punished? Would it be worth endangering the lives of other crew members to save him and his special talents? Those are worthwhile ideas to explore that would make good use of a wonderkid character, in my opinion. I seem to recall the episode where he and his classmates get a fellow cadet killed because of their arrogance was actually rather good, more of that might have been a boon to the show. And that’s what makes Roddenberry’s vision for Trek such a paradox. It was this optimistic vision of the future that attracted people, especially during the sixties when we really needed a vision of hope. But Roddenberry started OVERDOING it. Forbidding all interpersonal conflict really kind of hamstrung many good stories. It’s one of the reasons why in current Trek, I’m not so much in love with the idea of Earth/the Federation being a complete Utopia. I’m just happy enough with it NOT being a DYStopia. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/50 "2014-02-11T17:56:33Z")
I think even Wil Wheaton would agree Wesley needed to die in that drunk episode of ST:TNG. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/51 "2014-02-11T18:18:50Z")
> [@Hermione](#): > > And that’s what makes Roddenberry’s vision for Trek such a paradox. It was this optimistic vision of the future that attracted people, especially during the sixties when we really needed a vision of hope. But Roddenberry started OVERDOING it. Forbidding all interpersonal conflict really kind of hamstrung many good stories. > > It’s one of the reasons why in current Trek, I’m not so much in love with the idea of Earth/the Federation being a complete Utopia. I’m just happy enough with it NOT being a DYStopia. I was thinking about the “Chain of Command” episode, with Captain Jellicoe. Here you have a no nonsense kind of CO, who commands by fiat, not consensus. It causes friction in/with the command staff. Never-the-less, the missions assigned are completed successfully. They could spend time exploring the concept of leadership, for example. What makes a good leader “good”? (Compare and contrast a popular leader like Halsey, Patton or MacArthur, to quiet but competent leaders like Nimitz, Spruance, Bradley.) Wesley could even be used as an exposition device to help point out these musings, as the teen learns what it means to be an _officer_, vice a scientist or engineer. Unfortunately, with everthing needing to be wrapped up in 47 minutes, these kinds of things (interpersonal conflicts, or plots that span multiple seasons) can’t really get the attention they deserve. That, and you need a decent writing staff, too. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/52 "2014-02-11T19:40:26Z")
Just for the record, Helmsman is one of the positions they let brand new USCG basic training graduates fill. Of course, if there’s any fancy stuff (like docking or getting under way) to do they’ll call the Special Sea Detail but once you’re where there’s not much to run into, they bring in the Seaman Apprentice. So I can see Wesley sitting in at the helm. There’d certainly be the Star Fleet equivalent of a Quartermaster Of The Watch/Navigator to keep an eye on every thing he did. ---
**Author:** ![GargoyleWB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gargoylewb/32/199_2.png) [@GargoyleWB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GargoyleWB)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/53 "2014-02-11T20:05:39Z")
> [@Antigen](#): > > I don’t see why people keep hating on Wesley. I thought he was great. As a nerdy kid myself,… The producers dared to break the greatest casting rule in screen media…never cast an actor in their most awkward teenage adolescent voice-cracky skinny pre-adult phase of their life with someone of that actual age and demographic. Wil Wheaton played the role perfectly given the scripting/casting/role noose that his character had to wear. That they _didn’t_ do that to the other young contemporaries he acted with (Ashley Judd as a shy awkward wallflower nerd teenager, come on) just made Wesley’s character awkwardly stick out even more. There were really only two possibilities that the producers could have gone… 1. Use an adult actor to play at being younger, but to bring the mature gravitas (e.g. the Luke Perry 90210 gambit). 2. Use a teen, but cast in the most blatant Tiger Beat cover heart-throbby manner that all television uses to retcon actual teenagehood into a mythical idyllic journey of blossoming success, desire, and supermodelhood (e.g. the Joey Lawrence gambit). Go on, do a real world test. There is no way, in the real world, you could set a 16 year-old kid down at a big corporation’s executive table (e.g. starship bridge) and try and project confidence and expertise to the CEO, CFO, etc without suffering “Wesley effect”. ---
**Author:** ![Dale\_Sams](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Dale\_Sams](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dale_Sams)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/54 "2014-02-11T20:25:43Z")
Like I said, once he put on a uniform, he was fine…but man, after everything I read about how Berman kept screwing him over…\*\*\*\*Berman. I don’t blame Wheaton a bit for leaving. I wish I had Wheaton’s ear around the time he feeling the heat from the fans and then later when Berman kept lying to Wil and making him feel like shit. I’d tell him it’s not you, and you don’t owe anyone a GD thing. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/55 "2014-02-11T20:32:22Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > I was thinking about the “Chain of Command” episode, with Captain Jellicoe. > > Here you have a no nonsense kind of CO, who commands by fiat, not consensus. It causes friction in/with the command staff. I always thought Jellicoe was misunderstood. He knew he was not going to be the permanent commander of the Enterprise. Picard’s command style is way laid back (except in combat mode). He inspires the crew to do good work just by his presence. The crew looks for ways to impress him, and they don’t need instructions. Everyone is self-motivated. But this type of command respect takes a long time to set up. Jellicoe had only a little time to complete his assignment, so he came in guns blazing. When he asked Riker whether the ship ran a three or four shift watch, it didn’t matter which one Riker answered, Jellicoe would have made him switch to the other one. Let’s everyone know that things have changed, and we are not doing things Picard’s way. Jellicoe knew there wasn’t time to get the crew to like him or respect him like Picard, so he didn’t even try. So how did Starfleet’s Best respond? They whined like little children denied their candy. Riker especially: “He’s not doing things the way we always did! \.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/56 "2014-02-11T20:34:29Z")
When I watched the show, I always thought that Picard should just leave his ass on some stupid planet. There was this one episode where, (and my memory must be faulty because this is too cheesy to be real but I can’t seem to remember it any other way), Wesley became involved with some sort of “native american” tribal politics on a planet and he’s openly refusing to obey direct orders given to him by Picard. Why he didn’t end up in chains is beyond me. Oh, wait. Picard and his mom were banging… that’s right. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/57 "2014-02-11T21:41:21Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#): > > So how did Starfleet’s Best respond? They whined like little children denied their candy. Riker especially: “He’s not doing things the way we always did! \.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/58 "2014-02-11T21:53:32Z")
There can be a love/hate relationship with the military. They deal with life & death decisions, and have to intentionally put there lives in danger to accomplish various “good things”. Thus: heroic. They also may have to kill folks, and the “unstinting obedience” requirements implicit within a military style rank/command system ruffles feathers of those who want to think we should be past that stage socially. Thus: backwards at best, possible even evil. I don’t think Roddenberry wanted to really address the darker aspect of the human condition, except to assert that “humanity [the 23rd century society] has evolved since we wore such… costumes [referring to the USMC uniform “Q” was wearing].” ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857/59 "2014-02-11T22:10:38Z")
Similar sentiment expressed in the TOS ep with that recreation of Abe Lincoln. “The charming Negress…” was part of the conversation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-to-wesley-crusher/680857.md?page=2)