# "Death toll in Burlington \[Washington\] shooting rises to 5; gunman at large" **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 24, 2016, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720 "2016-09-24T12:54:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snorri\_Thorfinnsson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@Snorri\_Thorfinnsson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snorri_Thorfinnsson)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/21 "2016-09-25T12:36:10Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > [Dylann Roof](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dylann_Roof) > > There _are_ [religious white supremacists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Identity), but far as I know they’ve never made a practice of targeting churches. Though never say never, I suppose. With whackadoos, you never know. During the civil rights era the KKK (members of which generally professed to being Christians - go figure) blew up some black churches. Not for any religious reason but because the black churches were generally involved in the civil rights movement. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/22 "2016-09-25T14:22:00Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Reading comprehension check: Then there would be a video of it. Thus the comment. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/23 "2016-09-25T14:53:44Z")
> [@Snorri\_Thorfinnsson](#): > > During the civil rights era the KKK (members of which generally professed to being Christians - go figure) blew up some black churches. Not for any religious reason but because the black churches were generally involved in the civil rights movement. Yes, an organization designed to overthrow Republicans in the South during the Reconstruction Period by attacking the black vote. We get it. It has nothing to do with the unnecessary Emo Christian terrorist comments by buddha\_david right out of the gate in post 3. All of which appeared to sail over your head. But thanks for your input. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/24 "2016-09-25T15:04:18Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Yes, an organization designed to overthrow Republicans in the South during the Reconstruction Period by attacking the black vote. We get it. It has nothing to do with the unnecessary Emo Christian terrorist comments by buddha\_david right out of the gate in post 3. All of which appeared to sail over your head. > > But thanks for your input. This is turning into a hijack so everyone stop. If you wish to talk about Christian terrorism or violence during the civil rights movement or whatever take it to a different thread. ---
**Author:** ![PastTense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pasttense/32/14550_2.png) [@PastTense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PastTense)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/25 "2016-09-25T18:19:06Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Could the killer be a boyfriend or ex-boyfriend of one of the employees or customers who was killed? > [@](#): > > As for the motive, law enforcement sources say Cetin’s ex-girlfriend use to work at the Macy’s where the shooting happened. However, she has not worked there in several months and now lives in Pierce County. But that connection appears to be why Cetin chose that location. [http://www.king5.com/news/local/five-people-dead-in-cascade-mall-shooting-in-burlington/324940198](http://www.king5.com/news/local/five-people-dead-in-cascade-mall-shooting-in-burlington/324940198) ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2016, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/26 "2016-09-25T20:09:44Z")
[From Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Cascade_Mall_shooting): Cetin holds permanent United States residency[17] but is not an American citizen. Cetin was arrested without incident on the evening of September 24 in Oak Harbor, Washington. Online records show that Cetin had priors, having been arrested in July 2015 on charges of assault in the fourth degree. KIRO reports that as a result of the charges, Cetin was ordered to undergo mental health counselling which he completed in March 2016. The court also imposed an order for him not to take drugs or drink alcohol. As of 25 August 2016, no breach of the court order against Cetin had been identified. * * * So he has a history of assault and was ordered take counseling for it. And if he’s ordered not to drink or do drugs that implies a history of it but lawyers on the board can address that. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/27 "2016-09-29T14:51:52Z")
[Cetin attempted to buy a gun two hours before the shooting](http://www.king5.com/news/local/suspect-may-have-attempted-gun-purchase-hours-before-mall-shooting/327522805). Arcan Cetin walked into a gun store and attempted to buy a .45 caliber handgun two hours before the shootings. Gun store clerk Aaron Wilson refused to sell him one when Cetin asked about avoiding the mandatory background check. > [@](#): > > “He grew more agitated the more I told him there wasn’t a way around the background check,” Wilson said. “I already became convinced at this point that no matter what, I wasn’t willing to sell this man a gun.” Cetin had been [ordered to have treatment for mental health issues](http://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/local/crime/article104537591.html), and was involuntarily committed to a hospital for two months. I think the involuntary committal might not have shown up on a background check, to protect his civil rights. But the ‘series of criminal charges’ should have appeared if the gun store had run the background check. (Moot point, since the BGC isn’t done until the purchase is initiated, and the clerk wasn’t going to sell him a gun in any case.) ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/28 "2016-09-29T16:10:16Z")
There are also reports that he [had some interest in ISIS](http://www.ibtimes.com/washington-mall-shooter-linked-isis-arcan-cetin-had-blogs-tied-islamic-state-terror-2422494). And that he may have [voted illegally](http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/washington-mall-shooter-illegally-voted/). Charming guy. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/29 "2016-09-29T16:14:49Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > And that he may have [voted illegally](http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/washington-mall-shooter-illegally-voted/). My stepfather voted illegally for half a century. Like Cetin, everyone assumed he was automatically a citizen when he came to the United States as a minor. (I think he was about ten years old.) He joined the Air Force, had a security clearance, worked, paid taxes, and yes, voted. It was not until his father died and they needed a passport to take his ashes back to Finland that he found out he was not a citizen. After living almost his whole life here, he finally became one. I would not be too quick to assign malice to ‘voting illegally’. Cetin may have assumed he was a citizen, just like my stepfather did. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/30 "2016-09-30T00:07:00Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > My stepfather voted illegally for half a century. Like Cetin, everyone assumed he was automatically a citizen when he came to the United States as a minor. (I think he was about ten years old.) He joined the Air Force, had a security clearance, worked, paid taxes, and yes, voted. It was not until his father died and they needed a passport to take his ashes back to Finland that he found out he was not a citizen. After living almost his whole life here, he finally became one. > > I would not be too quick to assign malice to ‘voting illegally’. Cetin may have assumed he was a citizen, just like my stepfather did. Your stepfather didn’t know he wasn’t a citizen? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2016, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/31 "2016-09-30T00:37:36Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Your stepfather didn’t know he wasn’t a citizen? That is correct. Everyone assumed he was automatically a citizen because his parents were naturalised and he was a minor. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/32 "2017-04-17T17:28:16Z")
[Arcan Cetin, man accused of killing 5 in Cascade Mall shooting, dies in jail](http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/accused-cascade-mall-shooter-dies-in-snohomish-county-jail) _The Skagit Valley Herald_ reports that he apparently hanged himself. ---
**Author:** ![yanceylebeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yanceylebeef/32/12290_2.png) [@yanceylebeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yanceylebeef)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/33 "2017-04-17T17:54:23Z")
Good. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/34 "2017-04-17T18:15:03Z")
R. I. P. Rot in Pieces. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/35 "2017-04-17T18:48:02Z")
Phew, when I saw the thread title I thought: “Oh fuck, not again!” I’m of two minds about this. First, the guy deserved to die painfully, and it spares the survivors and the victim’s families the trauma of a trial. On the other hand, it denies them closure. If I were in the family’s shoes, I certainly would’ve preferred to look that asshole in the eye as he’s sentenced to life in prison. But that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/36 "2017-04-17T18:55:44Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > I’m of two minds about this. First, the guy deserved to die painfully, and it spares the survivors and the victim’s families the trauma of a trial. On the other hand, it denies them closure. If I were in the family’s shoes, I certainly would’ve preferred to look that asshole in the eye as he’s sentenced to life in prison. But that’s just me. Per the article, Cetin suffered from disruptive disorder, depression, anxiety and attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder. He was mentally ill. Does this excuse his actions? Of course not. But I don’t think he ‘deserved’ to ‘die painfully’. And now he no longer exists. His punishment is over. ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/37 "2017-04-17T19:08:06Z")
> [@Johnny\_L.A](#): > > Cetin suffered from disruptive disorder, depression, anxiety and attention deficit/hyperactivity disorder. He was mentally ill. Does this excuse his actions? Of course not. But I don’t think he ‘deserved’ to ‘die painfully’. I wasn’t aware of that. Point taken. Question: I see that Washington has had a moratorium on the death penalty since 2014, even though capital punishment is still on the books. Does that mean no new murder cases are death penalty-eligible, even for a guy like this? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [April 17, 2017, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720/38 "2017-04-17T19:16:36Z")
> [@buddha\_david](#): > > Question: I see that Washington has had a moratorium on the death penalty since 2014, even though capital punishment is still on the books. Does that mean no new murder cases are death penalty-eligible, even for a guy like this? I don’t know. As a layman, I presume people may be sentenced to snuffage, but the state won’t croak them as long as the moratorium is in place. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/death-toll-in-burlington-washington-shooting-rises-to-5-gunman-at-large/766720.md?page=1)