# Deaths that sort of define a person **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 13, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999 "2023-07-13T19:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/241 "2023-07-18T20:33:49Z")
> [@Toxylon](#): > > Donald Campbell is by far most famous for being an 8 times world land / water speed record holder and an utter trailblazer in the speed record scene, at a time in history when this was hotly pursued (unlike now). All these are massively subjective, particularly to different generations. To me he’s most famous for dying in lake Windermere, YMMV JFK is the classic example of that IMO. Those that lived through the assassination (particularly if they were too young to be involved in party politics and policy) remember him for his assassination, my generation who came of age in the time of the Oliver Stone film do too. I’d say as time goes on his assassination becomes just another high profile violent death that was caught on camera, the historic events he was pivotal to become more important than the manner of his death. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/242 "2023-07-18T21:00:14Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > I’d say as time goes on his assassination becomes just another high profile violent death that was caught on camera, the historic events he was pivotal to become more important than the manner of his death. I disagree with this. I think the further we get from JFK’s presidency, the more mediocre his term will appear. The big issues of his day will be obscure and lack context to most people, and the thing that will remain most notable thing about him will be the manner in which he died. William McKinley was president during the Spanish American war. How many people remember his actions and policies during that time? I sure as fuck don’t - I forgot he was even president during that time, probably because Teddy Roosevelt sucks up all the limelight in that conflict. But I totally remember him getting shot because he didn’t give some random loser a job in a post office. JFK’s following the same arc. The Cuban Missile Crisis is just another time the US and Russia didn’t go to war, same as we didn’t go to war under the previous administration, same as we didn’t go to war during the subsequent administration. Outside of historians or people with a specific interest in this time period, that’s all going to muddle together. But the assassination of the leader of wealthiest and most powerful nation in history, at the absolute height of its influence and reach? That shit’s going to live on forever. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/243 "2023-07-18T21:10:33Z")
I believe Ham was just pissed that they fed him [Tang](https://www.hellaentertainment.com/blog/history/tang-nasa/), instead of monkey-chow. ---
**Author:** ![Jaycat.again](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat.again/32/11525_2.png) [@Jaycat.again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaycat.again)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/244 "2023-07-18T21:29:47Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > JFK’s following the same arc. The Cuban Missile Crisis is just another time the US and Russia didn’t go to war, same as we didn’t go to war under the previous administration, same as we didn’t go to war during the subsequent administration. It’s clear you didn’t live thru this time. Or huddle under your desk at school, or have people you know building fallout shelters. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/245 "2023-07-18T21:36:15Z")
> [@Jaycat.again](#): > > It’s clear you didn’t live thru this time. Yeah, that was explicitly my point. If you lived through these events, they were a big deal. If you didn’t, they weren’t. As the number of people who lived through these events decreases, his role in those events is going to be seen as less significant or interesting, compared to his assassination. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/246 "2023-07-18T22:00:49Z")
And for better or worse, preventing a war just isn’t as defining as getting shot and killed in a motorcade. One is the absence of something happening, the other is the political assassination. One is understood and appreciated by people who study history, the other is a scandalous murder. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/247 "2023-07-18T22:25:38Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > JFK’s following the same arc. Possibly eventually but right now the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Civil Rights Movement, and the Vietnam War are remembered as pivotal moments in US history, and they (and JFKs part in them) are fading from view much more slowly than the assassination. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/248 "2023-07-18T22:25:54Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > And for better or worse, preventing a war just isn’t as defining as getting shot and killed in a motorcade. I’m going to go with worse. Kennedy’s assassination was a tragedy, and whenever a nation becomes unstable leadership-wise even for for a while, it gives other nations with evil intentions, insurgents and terrorists opportunities to take advantage (that didn’t happen in this case), but all-in-all the course of history didn’t change much as a result of Kennedy’s death. However, if Kennedy mishandled the Cuban Missile Crisis, it could very well have resulted in nuclear war between two superpowers. That would have changed the coarse of history significantly—for the worse. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/249 "2023-07-18T22:27:38Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > I believe Ham was just pissed that they fed him [Tang](https://www.hellaentertainment.com/blog/history/tang-nasa/), instead of monkey-chow. I would think he would be happy that they provided him with Monkey-tang. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/250 "2023-07-18T22:34:23Z")
Don’t tell anyone, but I actually prefer the taste of monkey-flavored Tang over regular Tang. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/251 "2023-07-18T22:39:38Z")
It’s not monkey-flavored. It’s _for_ monkeys. It’s probably banana tang. ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/252 "2023-07-18T22:41:01Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > coarse of history As opposed to the smooth slide of history, of coarse. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/253 "2023-07-18T22:43:47Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Possibly eventually but right now the Cuban Missile Crisis, the Civil Rights Movement, and the Vietnam War are remembered as pivotal moments in US history, and they (and JFKs part in them) are fading from view much more slowly than the assassination. Two of those things mostly happened after he died, though. I think LBJ is much more strongly associated with both the Civil Rights movement and the escalations in Vietnam. And I don’t think the Cuban Missile Crisis occupies that much space in the heads of most post-Boomer Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/254 "2023-07-18T22:47:32Z")
Yeah I noticed that. Kinda hoping no one else did. _A hoarse is a hoarse of coarse, of coarse_, and all that. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/255 "2023-07-18T23:00:13Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > It’s not monkey-flavored. It’s _for_ monkeys. It’s probably banana tang. I guess it depends on what kind of 'tang it is… ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/256 "2023-07-18T23:02:19Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > And I don’t think the Cuban Missile Crisis occupies that much space in the heads of most post-Boomer Americans. It doesn’t, but it should, lest history repeat itself. That’s why I said “worse” above. People often don’t remember, or place proper significance, in the things they should, especially with the passage of time. It’s also why the Spanish flu of 1917 (one of the worst pandemics in human history, perhaps killing ~100 million) was mostly forgotten shortly after it subsided. Folks don’t like to remember bad things. Human nature. ---
**Author:** ![griffin1977](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/257 "2023-07-18T23:14:14Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Two of those things mostly happened after he died, though Yeah and he is still inextricably linked to them in the public perception regardless of that fact > [@Miller](#): > > And I don’t think the Cuban Missile Crisis occupies that much space in the heads of most post-Boomer Americans. Then when did you see one of the other cold war close calls depicted in mass media? 60 years later if a show wants to depict a Cold War nuclear close call, they show the Cuban missile crisis. Rightly or wrongly it’s become _the_ example of when the cold war almost went hot in the public consciousness. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/258 "2023-07-18T23:17:28Z")
Casey Jones ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/259 "2023-07-18T23:26:55Z")
> [@griffin1977](#): > > Rightly or wrongly it’s become _the_ example of when the cold war almost went hot in the public consciousness. Indeed, the primary reason we haven’t seen nuclear war since WWII is because of Second Strike capability. _You hit us and blow up half the world, we’ll hit you right back and blow up the other half._ Thankfully, that sobering thought has deterred even insane leaders…so far. ---
**Author:** ![eburacum45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eburacum45/32/8690_2.png) [@eburacum45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eburacum45)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2023, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/260 "2023-07-18T23:33:31Z")
> [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](#): > > I can’t be the only one who thought Death Cab For Cutie got their name from a Daily Mail headline about Princess Diana. That may be the case, but the song 'Death Cab for Cutie dates from 1967, from the excellent Bonzo Dog Doo-dah Band. > **[Death Cab for Cutie (song)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_Cab_for_Cutie_(song))** > > "Death Cab for Cutie" is a song composed by Vivian Stanshall and Neil Innes and performed by the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band. It was included on their 1967 album Gorilla. > Innes's inspiration for the song was the title of a story in an old American pulp fiction crime magazine he came across at a street market. Stanshall's primary contribution was to shape "Death Cab for Cutie" as a parody of Elvis Presley (notably Presley's 1957 hit "(Let Me Be Your) Teddy Bear"), and he sang it as such, with underton... and was featured in the [Beatles’](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles) 1967 television film _[Magical Mystery Tour](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Mystery_Tour_(film))_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999.md?page=14)