# Deaths that sort of define a person **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 13, 2023, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999 "2023-07-13T19:14:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/141 "2023-07-14T14:45:58Z")
As far as Kitty Genovese goes, the first sentence of the OP says that “sometimes famous people die.” Kitty Genovese was a bartender. Not a famous person until she was killed. Sharon Tate is a yes for me. Not a huge star, but she had been in some prominent releases, connected to other big people in the biz. And everyone remembered the death. Jay Sebring and the LaBiancas no, everyone else was overshadowed by Sharon Tate. William Henry Harrison is a yes for me, JFK no. James Dean yes. Buddy Holly no, Valens and the Big Bopper yes. There was an actress, Barbara Colby, was on the Mary Tyler Moore Show spinoff Phyllis. She and a fellow actor were shot and killed in a drive by shooting after an acting class. No known motive and the case has never been solved. But she was just on three episodes of the show, not quite prominent enough yet I think. Peter Deuel was on a TV Show, Alias Smith And Jones, one of the co-leads, when he committed suicide. His role was re-cast and the show continued. Deuel had been on some other shows. He’d be a yes for me. Stonewall Jackson, probably remembered more for dying than any military feats. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/142 "2023-07-14T14:58:29Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > Ray Chapman. > > In 1920, while batting for Cleveland in an American League baseball game against the Yankees, he was hit in the head with a pitch. He was able to start walking to the clubhouse before he collapsed. > > And to date he is the only person to die while playing a Major League Baseball game. In 1909 catcher Doc Powers died from injuries sustained in running into a grandstand after a foul ball. But it took him about 2 weeks to die. Regardless, Chapman is a great choice for this. He was a star player at the time, but only remembered for his death today. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/143 "2023-07-14T15:11:32Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > Lisa Marie Presley just died of complications of weight loss surgery. That will define her, I think. Bowel obstruction. That’s a tough one, considering how her father went. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/144 "2023-07-14T15:14:33Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Sharon Tate is a yes for me. Not a huge star, but she had been in some prominent releases, connected to other big people in the biz. And everyone remembered the death. Jay Sebring and the LaBiancas no, everyone else was overshadowed by Sharon Tate. > > William Henry Harrison is a yes for me, JFK no. James Dean yes. Buddy Holly no, Valens and the Big Bopper yes. This isn’t making sense. Sharon Tate had no notable roles, if Polanski had become smitten with her she would have never had any. She was known to a few people though and her death noticeable. William Henry Harrison was the POTUS when he died just like JFK, and both quite famous on that basis while they were alive. Dean sas a famous actor and Holly a famous singer, Valens less so but on the rise, while JP Richardson’s name was hardly known at all though his music was. How you include and exclude these people from this category seems haphazard and arbitrary. As I noted before, anyone who didn’t die of natural causes may someday be known only for their death. ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/145 "2023-07-14T15:20:21Z")
> **[Tom Mix](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Mix)** > > Thomas Edwin Mix (born Thomas Hezikiah Mix; January 6, 1880 – October 12, 1940) was an American film actor and the star of many early Western films between 1909 and 1935. He appeared in 291 films, all but nine of which were silent films. He was Hollywood's first Western star and helped define the genre as it emerged in the early days of the cinema. > Thomas Hezikiah Mix was born January 6, 1880, in Mix Run, Pennsylvania, approximately 62 miles (100 km) north of State College, to Edwin Elias Mix... ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/146 "2023-07-14T15:31:47Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > How you include and exclude these people from this category seems haphazard and arbitrary. I agree. You can certainly list people whose deaths define them most to _you_, but that is your subjective opinion. You can _guess_ how others define famous people with regard to their deaths, but…that’s just a guess. ---
**Author:** ![mjmartin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/3d9bf3/32.png) [@mjmartin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mjmartin)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/147 "2023-07-14T15:37:47Z")
Former Australian Prime Minister Harold Holt is almost exclusively remembered for his disappearance and presumed death by drowning. When I learned about this guy, it struck me as soon odd that the leader of a modern country could simply disappear in such an ordinary way. Just imagine if Jimmy Carter had went for a swim and never came back. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/148 "2023-07-14T15:40:33Z")
> [@Tibby](#): > > I agree. You can certainly list people whose deaths define them most to _you_, but that is your subjective opinion. Yeah, this is clearly very subjective. A lot of the names are people I’ve never heard of. And a lot are people I have heard of, and know something about, but don’t know anything about how they died. Like Hemingway. Maybe I’ve heard how he died before, but if you’d asked me, I wouldn’t have known the answer. Same with a bunch of others listed here. But obviously, their death is memorable to the person mentioning them. Lou Gehrig is a good one. Heck the disease is colloquially named for him. Jesus’s death and resurrection is what he’s best known for. Caesar’s death certainly redefined him. Archduke Ferdinand certainly qualifies. Kurt Cobain. Most of the others in this thread aren’t doing it for me. But they are to someone else, or they wouldn’t be mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/149 "2023-07-14T15:48:26Z")
> [@mjmartin](#): > > Just imagine if Jimmy Carter had went for a swim and never came back. Don’t underestimate those rabbits. ---
**Author:** ![Tatterdemalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/43a26b/32.png) [@Tatterdemalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tatterdemalion)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/150 "2023-07-14T15:50:18Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > Bowel obstruction. That’s a tough one, considering how her father went. Yes, I was thinking that her father also had his issues with weight. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/151 "2023-07-14T16:03:10Z")
> [@Tatterdemalion](#): > > > [@mjmartin](#): > > > > Just imagine if Jimmy Carter had went for a swim and never came back. > > Don’t underestimate those rabbits. Or the UFOs ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/152 "2023-07-14T16:10:43Z")
Len Bias. ---
**Author:** ![Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@Two\_Many\_Cats2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Two_Many_Cats2)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/153 "2023-07-14T16:14:08Z")
Peg Entwistle Virginia Rappe ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Jay\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Z)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/154 "2023-07-14T16:17:40Z")
Yes, this is all subjective, based on memories and our subjective valuations. William Henry Harrison is only remembered for dying so early into his term. Zacharay Taylor, James Garfield less remembered, because they don’t hold the record for shortest term. That’s why he’s Yes to me, he’s still remembered at all because of his death. JFK… death super famous, but he wasn’t the first to be assassinated. But people still remembered him in office, the whole “Camelot” deal. His death really didn’t change that, ushered in some bad times maybe, they were likely coming either way, but people still remembered his years about the same so he didn’t change in that way. Lou Gehrig, well they don’t do a movie if he doesn’t die, but that didn’t really change his image. I want it to be more than “they died young.” Gehrig was still a Hall Of Famer who held some prominent records. Glenn Miller would be another “no” for me as the death doesn’t really change the image. Buddy Holly is no for me because his image and songs weren’t particularly tragic. An entertainer dying on the road in a car or plane crash isn’t that unusual, Judy Tyler, Ernie Kovacs, Patsy Cline, Jim Reeves, Eddie Cochran all from that era off the top of my head. People genuinely enjoy reviving his image and his music held a lot of popularity, but again I don’t see the death tying in all that much. The crash was more famous because there were two other entertainers on board people had heard of. If it’s his bandmates (as the plan was originally) it’s likely less of a big deal. Phil Hartmann I think is a yes for me, that really was unexpected. Belushi and Chris Farley no, I wasn’t even surprised when they died. Sharon Tate had been nominated for a Golden Globe. Was a co-lead in Valley Of The Dolls, which did big box office even if it got bad reviews. Got good reviews for The Wrecking Crew with Dean Martin. Plus Polanski. She wasn’t Faye Dunaway, but she had a certain amount of prominence. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/155 "2023-07-14T16:18:03Z")
??? I instantly recognized Tom Mix’s name as a cowboy movie star. I had no idea how he died until I read your link. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/156 "2023-07-14T16:21:33Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > Buddy Holly is no for me because his image and songs weren’t particularly tragic. It is for me because (like James Dean) dying young is what made him immortal. He might have been a flash-in-the pan if he hadn’t died. (Same goes for Heather “the girl from _Poltergeist_ and a _Happy Days_ story arc” O’Rourke.) ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/157 "2023-07-14T16:39:33Z")
Pianist William Kapell is mainly remembered today for having died in an airplane crash at age 31. A sample of his playing: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/PaqnAU5uR4s/hqdefault.jpg "Kapell plays Shostakovich Prelude No. 5 in D major, Op. 34") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaqnAU5uR4s) ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/158 "2023-07-14T16:40:40Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > 86 floors? How the hell did her body remain intact and bloodless? I would think you would be ripped into pieces and completely mangled after a fall of that height. I don’t quite understand the physics of it, but apparently as soon as they tried to move the body it completely collapsed. If that kid hadn’t been right across the street with his new camera, she would have faded into memory. It’s the photograph that immortalized her. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/159 "2023-07-14T16:47:01Z")
> [@Jay\_Z](#): > > JFK… death super famous, but he wasn’t the first to be assassinated. I still say JFK belongs on this list despite all of his accomplishments. Mostly because all the conspiracies and urban legends that have arisen out of his assassination. I suspect of there have been more books written about JFK’s death than everyone mentioned here combined. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2023, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999/160 "2023-07-14T16:49:07Z")
Technically NOT a death but union leader **Jimmy Hoffa** is most remembered for disappearing in 1975. I am actually surprised no one has mentioned him yet… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/deaths-that-sort-of-define-a-person/986999.md?page=9)