# Debaser pits the flood **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 17, 2006, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151 "2006-05-17T19:57:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DianaG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ab992/32.png) [@DianaG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DianaG)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/21 "2006-05-18T18:10:05Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Like I said, turn it off. People will manage for a couple of days. What ever happened to “If it’s yellow let it mellow, if it’s brown flush it down”. I grew up on an island that had very limited capacities for septic and wells. I guess I’m not like most people who take this stuff more for granted. > > In any case, it’s completely different to expect the government to fix all my problems relating to the flood and to simply ask that they don’t make things worse by adding to them. So… you don’t want help from the government, except in the form of them imposing a pretty significant inconvenience on “greasy city dwellers” for your benefit. Okey dokey. Sorry for everyone affected by the flood. Except **Debaser** , who should go take a drink of his backyard. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/22 "2006-05-18T18:13:20Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If you think that Pat Buchanan actually makes that point with any validity, maybe you’re not even as smart as i gave you credit for. I don’t expect you to agree with him or I. Sadly, I have come to expect you to hurl insults at me no matter what I say. > [@](#): > > Lots of people also think the institution of marriage will come crumbling down if two guys are allowed to get married. And i can think they’re morons. What’s your point? Like I said, I don’t expect everybody to agree about everything here on the SDMB. It is frustrationg though, the way that some posters seem to be completely insulated from opposing viewpoints. Most people in this country are opposed to gay marriage. Do you consider them _all_ to be morons? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/23 "2006-05-18T18:26:05Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Most people in this country are opposed to gay marriage. Do you consider them _all_ to be morons? I have yet to hear an argument against gay marriage that was not moronic. They may be bright, intelligent and articulate on every other subject, but on gay marriage they are all morons. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/24 "2006-05-18T18:28:07Z")
> [@](#): > > Stranded for days in a pool of fetid water, almost everyone waited for the government to come save them. They screamed into the cameras for help, and the reporters screamed into the cameras for help, and the “civil rights leaders” screamed into the cameras that Bush was responsible and Bush was a racist. I’m sorry, but this is a vile misrepresentation. People had been flooded out of their homes, with virtually no resources. when many tried to leave for higher, dryer ground they were _forced back_. Many were told to gather at the Convention Center and the Dome, and with old or ailing family members, were unable to travel. Comparing these people to, say, the wel-outfitted bioat owners who evacuated Dunkirk is absurd. Especially when the ones who most resembled those Dunkirk evacuators – private individuals and groups like Wal-Mart, who tried to bring in water and supplies, were turned back by the government. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/25 "2006-05-18T18:35:30Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Like I said, I don’t expect everybody to agree about everything here on the SDMB. It is frustrationg though, the way that some posters seem to be completely insulated from opposing viewpoints. What do you mean “insulated”? I’m perfectly well aware of these “opposing viewpoints.” I simply disagree with and reject them. One gets the feeling that, despite your protestations, you really _do_ expect everyone to agree with you. This is the only inference i can draw from the fact that, when someone disagrees with you like i have done, i am accused of being insulated from opposing viewpoints, as if i would somehow see the light if only i would recognize the arguments of those who disagree with me. > [@Debaser](#): > > Most people in this country are opposed to gay marriage. Do you consider them _all_ to be morons? Actually, morons is probably the wrong word. There are plenty of people who oppose gay marriage for very intelligent and cunning reasons related to their own petty hatred and vindictiveness, or their desire to appeal to the hatred and vindictiveness of their constituents. I understand that some people don’t want this issue settled at the federal level, or in the courts, and argue that it should be decided at state level by elected representative and the citizens. Those sorts of legalistic arguments, even if i don’t agree with them, at least have the virtue of some coherence and foundation. But any individual who, when given the chance in an election or a ballot measure, votes specifically to deny gays the same rights that straight people have, simply exists in a different moral universe than me. I really, truly can see no reason other than hateful and petty vindictiveness behind such a decision. They can trot out all the “sanctity of marriage” bullshit that they want, but it’s just a cover for bigotry. And i’m not going to change my opinion on that just because those bigots happen to be in the majority. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/26 "2006-05-18T19:15:26Z")
So the people who disagree with you guys are all either morons or simply evil. Yet, you want me to explain to you how you insulate yourself from opposing viewpoints? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [May 18, 2006, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/27 "2006-05-18T20:18:33Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > So the people who disagree with you guys are all either morons or simply evil. Yet, you want me to explain to you how you insulate yourself from opposing viewpoints? 😉 But i don’t. I’ve listened to those viewpoints, and tried to engage honestly with them, and every single time the debate comes up i can see no sustainable logical or intellectual position behind the opposition to gay marraige. Every single time, the arguments offered in defence of that position seem to boil down to little more than, “I don’t like what you do, so i’m going to do everything in my power to stop you doing it.” You might disagree with my assessment, but your constant portrayal of me as someone who doesn’t know about, listen to, or engage with opposing points of view is simply wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/28 "2006-05-19T12:54:35Z")
It’s good to see you back, **Debaser**. As you can see, nothing has changed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2006, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/29 "2006-05-19T13:22:32Z")
Yeah, the OP lost me too, with the comment about New Orleans. A flood is serious business, true. Now add in 100 plus MPH winds (category 5 storm), storm surge, rotting bodies, no real evacuation plan, poor FEMA response, and a few loose cannons turning people back into the mess, or turning away trucks carryign fresh water and food. Then add various radio hacks calling all of them criminals and scum. Top it off with a generous helping of “god’s vengeance” as that one famous asshole said (implying that they all should die). Yeah, too bad about the flood, but N.O was hit by a giant sledge hammer. It’s a lot worse than JUST too much water. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/30 "2006-05-22T04:17:28Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Most people in this country are opposed to gay marriage. Do you consider them _all_ to be morons? Hey! Careful how you fling that strawman, it’s been soaking in shit-saturated water for 4 days! (And yeah, I got a chuckle out of the Pat Robertson quote, too.) ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/31 "2006-05-22T13:56:31Z")
:sigh: You don’t have any idea what a strawman is, do you? First of all, it’s impossible for a simple question to ever be a strawman. A strawman is when you make up a weak interpretation of someone elses argument and then **you argue against it**. Simply asking someone a question can never be a “stawman argument” no matter how absurd the question is because there is no argument being made! Besides all of which, my question was not out of line one bit. **mhendo** said “Lots of people also think the institution of marriage will come crumbling down if two guys are allowed to get married. And i can think they’re morons.” I responded with a simply question for **mhendo** to clarify his/her opinion. “Most people in this country are opposed to gay marriage. Do you consider them all to be morons?” Predictably, then **mhendo** backed away from his/her position. That’s what made it a good and appropriate question for me to ask. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw\_man](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man) ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/32 "2006-05-22T13:58:54Z")
Oh, and what Pat Robertson quote? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/33 "2006-05-22T14:05:55Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Besides all of which, my question was not out of line one bit. mhendo said “Lots of people also think the institution of marriage will come crumbling down if two guys are allowed to get married. And i can think they’re morons.” > > I responded with a simply question for mhendo to clarify his/her opinion. “Most people in this country are opposed to gay marriage. Do you consider them all to be morons?” > > Predictably, then mhendo backed away from his/her position. But that **was** a strawman argument, albeit a subtle one. You quietly substituted the more moderate “being opposed to gay marriage” for **mhendo** ’s “thinking the institution of marriage will come crumbling down if two guys are allowed to get married”. People oppose gay marriage for a variety of reasons. I personally don’t happen to agree with any of those reasons, but I don’t consider all of them to be quite as moronic as the belief that homosexual marriage will outright destroy heterosexual marriage. It isn’t “backing away” if one has two slightly different opinions about those two somewhat different beliefs… (And btw, I think **KGS** ’s reference to Robertson was just in error for his fellow Pat, Buchanan.) ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/34 "2006-05-22T15:36:55Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But that **was** a strawman argument, albeit a subtle one. It was not. It was a simple question, asked in good faith. There was no “argument” at all, so it cannot have been a strawman argument. If you broaden the definition of stawman arguments to be this wide than no discussion of an opponents viewpoint at all is possible without being guilty of this logical fallacy. Paraphrasing the viewpoint of someone else is a good way to better achieve understanding of what they are saying. At least, it is when you are doing it in good faith, which I was in this case. > [@](#): > > (And btw, I think **KGS** ’s reference to Robertson was just in error for his fellow Pat, Buchanan.) Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/35 "2006-05-22T20:38:15Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’m certainly not going to be like the helpless buffoons in New Orleans who bitch and moan about not getting enough handouts from the government. Having been in more than my fair share of flooded homes in the past few months, I feel compelled to say that I’m sorry for your loss. Floods will fuck over a house rather quickly but leave months of work behind. Here’s to a speedy recovery. As a New Orleanian, I also feel compelled to issue a hearty fuck you for the portion of your comments I’ve quoted above. In the [aftermath](http://www.levees.org/facts/factsheet.php) of hurricane Betsy in 1965, the federal government determined that it should be in charge of flood control for the New Orleans metropolitan area. It turns out that the feds didn’t do a particularly sterling [job of it](http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/05/22/levee.report.ap/index.html): "NEW ORLEANS, Louisiana (AP) – New Orleans’ levee system was routinely underfunded and therefore inadequate to protect against hurricanes, according to an independent report released Monday. The report also called for an overhaul of the agencies that oversee flood protection. It took aim at Congress for its piecemeal funding during the past 50 years, and at state and local levee authorities for failing to properly oversee maintenance of the levees." Now, by all means New Orleans should shoulder its fair share of the responsibility for not doing our share of maintenance and oversight. However, given that the federal levee system was underfunded and underengineered, factors that caused systematic failure, it’s not unreasonable for people who lost their homes and livelihoods to the levee breaches to ask the federal government to give them a hand. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/36 "2006-05-22T20:44:21Z")
[curmudgeon mode] The levees were a handout to begin with, I tells ya! [/curmudgeon mode] ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/37 "2006-05-22T20:57:54Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > [curmudgeon mode] > > The levees were a handout to begin with, I tells ya! > > [/curmudgeon mode] Erm, touche’, I guess. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2006, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/38 "2006-05-22T23:21:57Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I just dug up this article by Pat Buchanon about the New Orleans floods. He does a good job of explaining the helplessness that we saw with the victims there… > > [cite](http://www.theconservativevoice.com/article/8250.html) > > I don’t expect somebody like you to agree with me about this. I don’t agree with any of it, and Robertson can roast in hell for all I care. As to the shooting, looting, crime, and overall evilness there, that you seem to be referring to, that is debunked. > **[FAIR](https://fair.org/?page=2793)** > > FAIR is the national progressive media watchdog group, challenging corporate media bias, spin and misinformation. > [@FAIR](#): > > **Demonizing the Victims of Katrina** > Coverage painted hurricane survivors as looters, snipers and rapists > Indeed, weeks later, the Los Angeles Times (9/27/05) noted that follow-up reporting had discredited most of the wilder reports, including those of pedophilic rape, murder at the Superdome and “roving bands of armed gang members attacking the helpless.” The New Orleans Times-Picayune (9/26/05), in a story headlined “Rumors of Deaths Greatly Exaggerated,” found an official count of only four violent deaths citywide for the entire flood period—a figure it noted was “typical in a city that anticipated more than 200 homicides this year.” > > Similarly, Knight Ridder’s wire service (10/2/05) debunked the seminal stories of sniping at rescue vehicles, reporting that “more than a month later, representatives from the Air Force, Coast Guard, Department of Homeland Security and Louisiana Air National Guard say they have yet to confirm a single incident of gunfire at helicopters.” The article put to rest the ambulance-shooting mythologies propagated by the likes of Blitzer, observing that the account from which they germinated was mischaracterized to begin with; the ambulance driver who claimed he was prevented from dropping supplies off at a hospital because of armed crowds on its roof “never went to the hospital, turning back after hearing a warning over military radio.” [http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050919/blumenthal](http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050919/blumenthal) > [@The Nation](#): > > \*\* Pat Robertson’s Katrina Cash\*\* > Yet FEMA’s relief efforts have brought considerable assistance to at least one man who stands to benefit from Hurricane Katrina perhaps more than any other individual: Pat Robertson. > > With the Bush Administration’s approval, Robertson’s $66 million relief organization, Operation Blessing, has been prominently featured on FEMA’s list of charitable groups accepting donations for hurricane relief. Dozens of media outlets, including the New York Times, CNN and the Associated Press, duly reprinted FEMA’s list, unwittingly acting as agents soliciting cash for Robertson. “How in the heck did that happen?” Richard Walden, president of the disaster-relief group Operation USA, asked of Operation Blessing’s inclusion on FEMA’s list. “That gives Pat Robertson millions of extra dollars.” > Though Operation USA has conducted disaster relief for more than twenty-five years on five continents, like scores of other secular relief groups currently helping victims of Hurricane Katrina, it was omitted from FEMA’s list. In fact, only two non-“faith-based” organizations were included. (One of them, the American Red Cross, is being blocked from entering New Orleans by FEMA’s parent agency, the Department of Homeland Security.) FEMA, meanwhile, has reportedly turned away Wal-Mart trucks carrying food and water to the stricken city, teams of firemen from Maryland and Texas, volunteer morticians and a convoy of 1,000 boat owners offering to help rescue stranded flood victims. While relief efforts falter in the face of colossal bureaucratic incompetence, the Bush Administration’s promotion of Operation Blessing has ensured that the floodwaters swallowing New Orleans will be a rising tide lifting Robertson’s boat. So, they turned away people who wanted to help, and funneled big money to a man I personally hate. I wish I could get a Robertson sticker for my hunting license. Here is some vile filth that they were subjected to afterwards… > [@Fred Phelps](#): > > “New Orleans, symbol of America, seen for what it is: a putrid, toxic, stinking cesspool of fag fecal matter. […] Pray for more dead bodies floating on the fag-semen-rancid waters of New Orleans.” > [@Steve Lefemine](#): > > “In my belief, God judged New Orleans for the sin of shedding innocent blood through abortion […] Providence punishes national sins by national calamities, […] Greater divine judgment is coming upon America unless we repent of the national sin of abortion.” > [@Pat Robertson 700 Club](#): > > Well, in a sense, they say it’s an ill wind that blows nobody any good. Out of this tragedy, the focus of America is going to be on these victims, and inflamed rhetoric in the United States Senate is just not going to play well now because this is a time of healing and compassion and reaching out to people, and if they start going on a vendetta against Roberts in the Senate, it’s just going to hurt them. And I think they know that, so, I mean, Judge Roberts can, maybe, you know, be thankful that a tragedy has brought him some good. Fuck New Orleans, up with Roberts. Uh huh. Fuck Roertson. [http://datelinehollywood.com/archives/2005/09/18/pat-roberston-corrects-dateline-hollywood-article/](http://datelinehollywood.com/archives/2005/09/18/pat-roberston-corrects-dateline-hollywood-article/) > [@Dateline Hollywood](#): > > To the editors, > It has come to my attention that you recently published an article alleging that I blamed Hurricane Katrina on the selection of sexual deviant and New Orleans native Ellen DeGeneres to host the Emmy Awards. I must demand a correction to this libelous accusation. As I have stated repeatedly on ‘The 700 Club,’ Hurricane Katrina occurred because New Orleans is the epicenter of sinful jazz music in America. As for Ellen “DeGenerate,” I have predicted she will meet her fate when the Good Lord creates an earthquake centralized directly below the studio where she tapes her talk show. I “seem to remember” that these same bastards were calling the 9/11 attacks “divine justice” also. Fuck Pat Robertson, and all the other damn vultures. A Doper should know better than to use a foul vomitous mass like Robertson as a cite for anything. You should feel embarrassed. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/39 "2006-05-23T00:02:52Z")
> [@Pat Buchanan on CNN](#): > > “I think Katrina has worn its welcome. I think the American people are tired of it.” Uh, people on the Gulf Coast (ummmm like New Orleans ya know) are also American people. So fuck Buchanan too. Rush Limbaugh blamed “unchecked liberalism” for the inability to “save” New Orleans residents during Hurricane Katrina > [@Limbaugh](#): > > Now, here’s what we’re seeing, folks. One of the things – and I know this is going to irritate some of you in New Orleans, and I’m sorry, but it’s the truth – when – when – after Hurricane Katrina, and there was such misery, and there was such suffering, we were all stunned because New Orleans has been run by Democrats. Louisiana had been run by Democrats for decades; liberal Democrats to loot – to boot. New Orleans should have been a – a utopia. There should not have been any racism because liberals don’t believe in it, should not have been any unemployment because liberals don’t like that. Everybody should have been earning lots of money because liberals support paying people more than the minimum wage. There shouldn’t have been any discrimination because liberals are not racists. There shouldn’t have been any poverty because liberals won’t tolerate it. They have a war on poverty – and yet, what did we find? We found out it was the exact opposite! We had a microcosm – a model of exactly what unchecked liberalism does. > It creates destitution. It creates hopelessness. It creates a mess! Such a mess they couldn’t even save some of the people who were there to get them out of town, even though they had the mechanism and the advance warning to do it. The assole turns it into some sort of joke, and then blames it on the victims for being liberals. So fuck him. Don’t forget too, the video that was making the rounds shortly after. Heckuva Job Brownie was directly telling the President that it was going to be bad - very bad. The President just sat there like a lump, didn’t ask any questions, didn’t say anything. [http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4765058.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4765058.stm) [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11627394/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11627394/) After, he goes to parties and strums his geetar, and tries to act like it was a total surprise. So fuck him too. ---
**Author:** ![Ivorybill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee59a6/32.png) [@Ivorybill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ivorybill)\ **Post date:** [May 23, 2006, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151/40 "2006-05-23T03:07:34Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s this general feeling of helplessness and desire for the government to solve all our problems for us that I was referring to when I poked fun of the Katrina victims in my OP. Missed this the first time through. Glad to know you’re only poking fun. Usually when I poke fun I don’t call folks “helpless buffoons” but maybe that’s because we do things differently down here. I’m farily politically conservative, but honestly, do you really think Pat B. has any special insight about this or other issues? The man makes his livelihood linking everything bad to liberalism and everything good to conservatism. The world ain’t that black and white. Part of fighting ignorance is pushing the analysis, something that Pat doesn’t do because he doesn’t have time and because it doesn’t sell magazines or pay the bills. And because it shows that neither the left nor the right has a lock on providing peace and prosperity. He made some valid points about some of the most henious results of the welfare situation in New Orleans, but other factors seem to have eluded him. The able bodied - - those who helped hold the social fabric of this town together - - were ordered out as part of the mandatory evacuation. Many of the most industrious weren’t there to help out. There were approximately 30 breaches to the levees that contributed to the flooding in the metropolitan area. Municipal, Parish, and and state governments were overwhelmed. Who but the federal government was left to coordinate relief? True, civilians crossed the Channel and evacuated stranded troops from French soil in 1940 - - the stranded soldiers didn’t have to swim themselves to safety. In our case National Guard troops were manning checkpoints along the dry approaches to New Orleans and turning away volunteer civilian help whenever it arrived. It was a sad and shameful episode in this country’s history. Perhaps on that we can agree. Best of luck with the basement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-pits-the-flood/357151.md?page=3)