# Debaser, you've never been poor. Can't say the same about "presumptuous cockweed", though **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651 "2013-10-19T14:02:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![sylmar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b782af/32.png) [@sylmar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sylmar)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/181 "2013-10-22T00:51:17Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > What a silly post. You tell me my facts are wrong and don’t even bother to tell me which facts are incorrect. Get real. How can I learn from you wise and learned people if you won’t bother to correct me? Does 17% = 0 ring a bell? Or are you still struggling with those short and long term memory issues still ? Correct you? Brah, I already have a full time job… ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/182 "2013-10-22T01:42:50Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Hmmm… Lets go with a little more recent example since it’d be a little fresher in the memory there Corny, cause I’m willing to bet you don’t retain things for very long. > > Remember the Housing Bubble Collapse? All those bad loans the financial industry put out there with lax regulations and no government oversight that we got to eat? Yeah? lax regulations?? no govt oversight? which planet do you live on? This govt has so many regulations and laws that businesses have to hire people to sort thru it all. Furthermore, the govt caused the housing bubble by insuring banks and allowing Fannie/Freddie to make possible subprime lending. > [@](#): > > And remember the flurry of government activity afterwards, to try and stop the economic nose dive? when is this govt activity going to get us out of the recession? Obama has been president for going on 6 years and the recession drags on. How much longer do we have to wait? or is it possible that (just like during the Great Depression) all this govt activity is PROLONGING the recession? ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/183 "2013-10-22T01:44:01Z")
> [@sylmar](#): > > Does 17% = 0 ring a bell? Or are you still struggling with those short and long term memory issues still ? > > Correct you? Brah, I already have a full time job… do you deny that we had full employement (or zero unemployment) for most of the 20s? and that we had double digit unemployment for most of the 30s? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/184 "2013-10-22T01:46:08Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > do you deny that we had full employement (or zero unemployment) for most of the 20s? Well, I deny that these are the same thing, so yes. And “the 20s” and “most of the 20s” are also not the same thing. And “cornopean” and “smart” are also not the same thing, but I’m still not convinced “cornopean” and “adaher” are different. This is fun. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/185 "2013-10-22T01:53:00Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > Well, I deny that these are the same thing, so yes. > > And “the 20s” and “most of the 20s” are also not the same thing. > > And “cornopean” and “smart” are also not the same thing, but I’m still not convinced “cornopean” and “adaher” are different. > > This is fun. It almost seems as if you don’t want to face the facts I am referencing.(?) I know it’s not true…but I just can’t escape the suspicious that you are trying to dismiss my facts. 🙂 At any rate, I will post my facts again and let the readers judge: Unemployment rate Year Lebergott Romer 1919 1.4% 3.0% 1920 5.2% 5.2% 1921 11.7% 8.7% 1922 6.7 6.9% 1923 2.4 4.8% source: [Depression of 1920–1921 - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_of_1920%E2%80%9321) Here is a great picture to show you the radical difference between the 20s and the 30s in terms of unemployment: [File:US Unemployment 1910-1960.gif - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Unemployment_1910-1960.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/186 "2013-10-22T01:53:41Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Perhaps **EE** can clarify. I think the other contributors have done a good job of explaining the issue. Let me add one thing. Suppose you’re FDR, and you realize that the elderly, widows, etc. in your society aren’t doing so well. You call in a couple of advisors and ask them to give you suggestions. The first advisor says “here’s the plan; we tell the current elderly to go back in time, set aside 15% of their income for their entire working lives, then when they come back to the present time they’ll have savings to support themselves. Some of those who have to declare bankruptcy, or have their savings stolen, or who make bad investments…well, they’re just going to die, but what can you do?” The second advisor says “I like the time travel idea, but I see a few problems with it. Here’s an alternative suggestion; we ask the people who are currently working to give a little of their paychecks to the elderly, widows, etc. so they can buy food and housing. In return, when those guys retire, we’ll ask the young guys to do the same for them. That way we can have all the elderly taken care of for all time” [note: except for the very last generation, who are going to get screwed.] Which of those plans seem better to you? Oh, and in the second plan, please point out the portion of income that the government is investing for you. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/187 "2013-10-22T01:56:02Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > No historian would grade that recession anywhere near the Great Depression. I love how you go from not having the slightest clue about an issue that most of us learn about in grade school, to confidently asserting what every historian in the world thinks on the topic. You are either the greatest genius the world has ever known (who by some mischance spent his grade school years in a coma), or you seriously overestimate your understanding of things. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/188 "2013-10-22T01:56:40Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > It almost seems as if you don’t want to face the facts I am referencing.(?) I know it’s not true…but I just can’t escape the suspicious that you are trying to dismiss my facts. 🙂 Needs more lol. But no one can escape the suspicious. NO ONE. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/189 "2013-10-22T01:57:19Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I think the other contributors have done a good job of explaining the issue. > … > Which of those plans seem better to you? Oh, and in the second plan, please point out the portion of income that the government is investing for you. So…SS is an investment? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/190 "2013-10-22T01:58:25Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Here is a great picture to show you the radical difference between the 20s and the 30s in terms of unemployment: [File:US Unemployment 1910-1960.gif - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Unemployment_1910-1960.gif) Congratulations, you have managed to find a chart on Wikipedia. Now look to the right of the chart. What happens to unemployment? Looks to me like everything on the right half of the chart shits on your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/191 "2013-10-22T01:59:26Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > So…SS is an investment? You should try not to be any more stupid than you can help. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/192 "2013-10-22T02:00:32Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > I love how you go from not having the slightest clue about an issue that most of us learn about in grade school, to confidently asserting what every historian in the world thinks on the topic. > > You are either the greatest genius the world has ever known (who by some mischance spent his grade school years in a coma), or you seriously overestimate your understanding of things. wikipedia notes that this “long depression” as they call it was also quite shallow. [Economic depression - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(economics)#Notable_Depressions) some economists estimate that unemployment never got into double figures. I don’t deny it was a serious economic contraction but it was nothing like the Great Depression which Hoover/FDR gave us. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/193 "2013-10-22T02:02:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Congratulations, you have managed to find a chart on Wikipedia. Now look to the right of the chart. What happens to unemployment? Looks to me like everything on the right half of the chart shits on your opinion. Not sure which opinion of mine you are referring to. ? Unemployment went way down after the 30s b/c of war production. do you like to fight your battles in the fog? I never can quite pin down what argument you are making or which point you are defending. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/194 "2013-10-22T02:02:47Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > wikipedia notes that this “long depression” as they call it was also quite shallow. [Economic depression - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(economics)#Notable_Depressions) some economists estimate that unemployment never got into double figures. I don’t deny it was a serious economic contraction but it was nothing like the Great Depression which Hoover/FDR gave us. The long depression was also quite…long. Which shits on your claim that it was the social security programs created in the '30s that made depressions last so long. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/195 "2013-10-22T02:04:58Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > wikipedia notes that this “long depression” as they call it was also quite shallow. [Economic depression - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depression_(economics)#Notable_Depressions) some economists estimate that unemployment never got into double figures. Was the unemployment zero? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/196 "2013-10-22T02:05:32Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Not sure which opinion of mine you are referring to. ? Unemployment went way down after the 30s b/c of war production. do you like to fight your battles in the fog? I never can quite pin down what argument you are making or which point you are defending. I asked you before if average unemployment rates were higher before or after the great depression. You couldn’t come up with an answer, probably because it wasn’t given to you on Wikipedia (that, or you used the wrong search terms again, you idiot). Now go fucking answer that question. It’ll help prevent you making more of a fool of yourself. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/197 "2013-10-22T02:07:28Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Not sure which opinion of mine you are referring to. ? Unemployment went way down after the 30s b/c of war production. do you like to fight your battles in the fog? I never can quite pin down what argument you are making or which point you are defending. I’m fairly certain the argument he’s making is that you are making stuff up and cherry picking your data by perusing wikipedia and hoping you don’t get challenged. Your “baffle 'em with bullshit” style of debate can be effective in ending the conversation, but not in actually making people think you aren’t a fool. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/198 "2013-10-22T03:00:35Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > lax regulations?? no govt oversight? which planet do you live on? This govt has so many regulations and laws that businesses have to hire people to sort thru it all. > Furthermore, the govt caused the housing bubble by insuring banks and allowing Fannie/Freddie to make possible subprime lending. Try reading _The Big Short_ or any other decent account of the housing crash. Mortgage backed securities are totally unregulated. That was a major contributor to the crash. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/199 "2013-10-22T11:44:58Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > I guess I just someone anyone to explain to me why we had ten years of economic depression in the 30s with massive govt intervention and 1-2 years of depression in the 20s with virtually zero intervention. Still waiting… but somehow I still get accused of ignoring facts. 🙂 What short fucking memories we have. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > [The recession of 1921 was your typical v-shaped “fed squeeze” recession](http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/01/1921-and-all-that/): the fed put a squeeze on the economy to try to bring down inflation, and when inflation went back down, the fed stopped applying pressure and the economy recovered. This is a pretty common (same thing happened in 1981) and very easy to fix. 1921 also had the benefit of extremely low private debt (it having been eroded by inflation). > > So… How similar is this to the great depression? What differences can we find which might be more important in determining why one recession went badly and the other didn’t than “there was government intervention”? Well, the cause of the recession (money supply squeeze vs. bank runs, collapse of financial system and liquidity trap) might be _just a little bit more important_, dontcha think? Or maybe what that cause has for effects on the economy, eh? You’re fucking clueless, and I’d advise you to go get something in your head that isn’t shit on a bun before trying to talk about it! ---
**Author:** ![DragonAsh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/db5fbb/32.png) [@DragonAsh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DragonAsh)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/200 "2013-10-22T13:04:20Z")
Good god. Can people really be _this_ stupid? How does \*\*cornopean \*\*get dressed in the morning?! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651.md?page=11)