# Debaser, you've never been poor. Can't say the same about "presumptuous cockweed", though **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 19, 2013, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651 "2013-10-19T14:02:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/41 "2013-10-20T00:15:41Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > The job market is the way it is b/c of the govt. in a free economy, there would be no unemployment. The govt is the great engine of unemployment and poverty in this nation and in every nation. > > If the free market is so terrible for workers…then why not just be communist? Hello Cuba? Yes, in the days before government intervention, unemployment was zero. Wait, no, that’s completely false, and fucking stupid. Read a fucking book, you moron. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/42 "2013-10-20T00:15:52Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yes, the elderly never used to die. And social security is robbery. And you are the sort of simplistic uneducated moron who is the perfect representative of the right. I have read reports that Social Security earns something like below one percent interest. If those same seniors had invested that money in even a relatively safe investment, they would have much more money at retirement. Is that incorrect? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/43 "2013-10-20T00:17:22Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > I have read reports that Social Security earns something like below one percent interest. If those same seniors had invested that money in even a relatively safe investment, they would have much more money at retirement. Is that incorrect? Of course that’s incorrect, you idiot. Social security is a pay-as-you-go plan. If you don’t know that, you should probably educate yourself before opening your mouth. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/44 "2013-10-20T00:19:48Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > The job market is the way it is b/c of the govt. in a free economy, there would be no unemployment. The govt is the great engine of unemployment and poverty in this nation and in every nation. > > If the free market is so terrible for workers…then why not just be communist? Hello Cuba? In the government-free paradise of Somalia, unemployment is at a terrifically low 54%!!! Take that, you libtards! ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/45 "2013-10-20T00:20:28Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > The free market. People get educated, they get good jobs, they save up for the future, they learn to be self-reliant, churches/charities/organizations help out people who can’t help themselves. And then sometimes they’re my friend who finds out she has late state breast cancer in her early forties and can’t work because she is sick from the treatment for the disease half the fucking month. Her latest treatments have made her so radioactive she has to meet with the health officials to discuss who can even be around her for a prolonged time. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/46 "2013-10-20T00:22:45Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Yes, in the days before government intervention, unemployment was zero. > > Wait, no, that’s completely false, and fucking stupid. > > Read a fucking book, you moron. Well I tried to find some data on this but evidently unemployment was measured before the 20s. At any rate, the rate during the 20s was virtually zero. Those were the days of Harding Coolidge who were free market presidents. Then came the decade of the 30s with Hoover and FDR who were both meddlers. They were much more into the idea that the govt can fix things. Then we had…well…the Great Depression. So…there’s your history lesson. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/47 "2013-10-20T00:24:01Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > And then sometimes they’re my friend who finds out she has late state breast cancer in her early forties and can’t work because she is sick from the treatment for the disease half the fucking month. Her latest treatments have made her so radioactive she has to meet with the health officials to discuss who can even be around her for a prolonged time. Cases like these are serious and I don’t dismiss them. I would suggest, however, that there are far better ways to deal with this than to have the govt take over. The govt ruins everything it touches. I don’t think your friend is going to be any the better off for having govt swoop into help. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/48 "2013-10-20T00:24:10Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > The job market is the way it is b/c of the govt. in a free economy, there would be no unemployment. The govt is the great engine of unemployment and poverty in this nation and in every nation. > > If the free market is so terrible for workers…then why not just be communist? Hello Cuba? “Thinking” like this is what happens when you live in a black and white world. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/49 "2013-10-20T00:25:06Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Of course that’s incorrect, you idiot. > > Social security is a pay-as-you-go plan. If you don’t know that, you should probably educate yourself before opening your mouth. I don’t care what it is. They take my money, hold it, then return it. So…why not take my money, put in the bank, then return it. The latter option would make me much richer. It’s amazing how brainwashed you people can be. The govt spin machine has you right around their finger. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/50 "2013-10-20T00:26:44Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “Thinking” like this is what happens when you live in a black and white world. ok…fine. But some things are just so clear. We know for a fact that countries with high amounts of economic freedom are more prosperous, take better care of the enviroment, have more human rights for minorities, etc. etc. So…if liberty does these things, then we ought to give it a chance to do this in the U.S. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/51 "2013-10-20T00:26:45Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Cases like these are serious and I don’t dismiss them. I would suggest, however, that there are far better ways to deal with this than to have the govt take over. The govt ruins everything it touches. I don’t think your friend is going to be any the better off for having govt swoop into help. Absolute bullshit from the side who’s motto seems to be “The government is fucked up, and we’ll prove it to you…even if we have to deliberately fuck it up ourselves!” :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/52 "2013-10-20T00:27:15Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > Well I tried to find some data on this but evidently unemployment was measured before the 20s. > > At any rate, the rate during the 20s was virtually zero. Those were the days of Harding Coolidge who were free market presidents. > > Then came the decade of the 30s with Hoover and FDR who were both meddlers. They were much more into the idea that the govt can fix things. Then we had…well…the Great Depression. So…there’s your history lesson. Everything you just said was wrong. Here’s actual historical unemployment rates. [Actual facts](http://www.nber.org/chapters/c2644.pdf) show that the unemplyment rate in 1921 was 16.9%. Now, reading isn’t as easy as just making up ignorant uneducated stupid shit, so feel free not to follow the link. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/53 "2013-10-20T00:27:49Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > ok…fine. But some things are just so clear. We know for a fact that countries with high amounts of economic freedom are more prosperous, take better care of the enviroment, have more human rights for minorities, etc. etc. So…if liberty does these things, then we ought to give it a chance to do this in the U.S. Cite for this “fact”, please? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/54 "2013-10-20T00:28:39Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > I don’t care what it is. They take my money, hold it, then return it. So…why not take my money, put in the bank, then return it. The latter option would make me much richer. > > It’s amazing how brainwashed you people can be. The govt spin machine has you right around their finger. Yes, everything you said in this thread has been wrong, but **we’re** the brainwashed ones. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![Karrius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/71c47a/32.png) [@Karrius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karrius)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/55 "2013-10-20T00:29:56Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > The job market is the way it is b/c of the govt. in a free economy, there would be no unemployment. The govt is the great engine of unemployment and poverty in this nation and in every nation. I’m honestly confused here. What is it that makes conservatives so fucking stupid? How can _anyone_ be this fucking stupid and continue to function day to day? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/56 "2013-10-20T00:33:50Z")
> [@Karrius](#): > > I’m honestly confused here. What is it that makes conservatives so fucking stupid? How can _anyone_ be this fucking stupid and continue to function day to day? Here’s an honest answer: it isn’t stupidity. It’s a psychological state called the “just world” mindset. People who are threatened by powerlessness want to believe that they’re in control of their lives, so when bad things happen to other people they pretend it was because of something bad that person did. Rape victim? Must have been something she was wearing. Can’t pay medical bills? Must not have saved enough. Lost their job? Should have sucked their boss off when he asked. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/57 "2013-10-20T00:36:39Z")
How the hell do some conservatives fact-check? Do they say the first thing that pops into their heads, then wait to see if any of their compatriots nods and/or grins stupidly? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/58 "2013-10-20T00:37:48Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Here’s an honest answer: it isn’t stupidity. It’s a psychological state called the “just world” mindset. People who are threatened by powerlessness want to believe that they’re in control of their lives, so when bad things happen to other people they pretend it was because of something bad that person did. Rape victim? Must have been something she was wearing. Can’t pay medical bills? Must not have saved enough. Lost their job? Should have sucked their boss off when he asked. Etc. Of course, none of that applies when the bad things happen to the conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/59 "2013-10-20T00:43:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > How the hell do some conservatives fact-check? Do they say the first thing that pops into their heads, then wait to see if any of their compatriots nods and/or grins stupidly? Conservatives who fact-check end up as liberals. This kind of Darwinistic die-off ensures that after a few generations only the congenitially stupid are fit to compete in the conservative niche. ---
**Author:** ![cornopean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8c91f0/32.png) [@cornopean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornopean)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2013, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651/60 "2013-10-20T00:49:26Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Everything you just said was wrong. > > Here’s actual historical unemployment rates. [Actual facts](http://www.nber.org/chapters/c2644.pdf) show that the unemplyment rate in 1921 was 16.9%. Now, reading isn’t as easy as just making up ignorant uneducated stupid shit, so feel free not to follow the link. You are quite right! There was a crash in 1921 that was in some respects even more severe than the crash in 1929. But only two years later, full employment was reached. And Warren Harding did virtually NOTHING. Fast forward to 1929 and Hoover does everything in his power to prevent economic recession (read: economic correction). Then FDR comes along and does even MORE than Hoover and…you get the GREAT depression. Even wonder why the difference between the two? You can also see this in the way Reagan handled the depression of 1987(?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debaser-youve-never-been-poor-cant-say-the-same-about-presumptuous-cockweed-though/671651.md?page=4)