# Debate: You can't say anything "of substance" on this board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312 "2023-02-04T19:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/201 "2023-02-06T19:56:29Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > > Shel Silverstein captured the flip side of this… > > Consider my mind blown. I never knew the Johnny Cash song was a word-for-word version of a poem. 🤯 Shel Silverstein wrote songs as well as poems. He was very talented and I feel he’s under-appreciated. > **[Shel Silverstein](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shel_Silverstein)** > > Sheldon Allan Silverstein (/ˈsɪlvərstiːn/; September 25, 1930 – May 10, 1999) was an American writer, poet, cartoonist, singer-songwriter, musician, and playwright. Born and raised in Chicago, Illinois, Silverstein briefly attended university before being drafted into the United States Army. During his rise to prominence in the 1950s, his illustrations were published in various newspapers and magazines, including the adult-oriented Playboy. He also wrote a satirical, adult-oriented alphabet bo ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/202 "2023-02-06T19:59:30Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Shel Silverstein wrote songs as well as poems. Yes, here he is performing “The Unicorn”. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/GbXqP9iG2s4/maxresdefault.jpg "Shel Silverstein singing The Unicorn song live on stage") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GbXqP9iG2s4) > [@Pleonast](#): > > He was very talented and I feel he’s under-appreciated. He was the only poet whose work I liked as a kid. _Where the Sidewalk Ends_ was one of my favorite books. I memorized some of his poems. His work was a big influence on me and my sense of humor growing up. He will always have a special place in my heart. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/203 "2023-02-06T20:01:08Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > My mother wanted to be a doctor. But women couldn’t. She wanted to write an honors thesis in college. But the department didn’t want to waste the time of a faculty member supervising a woman. Those were in the 50s. How can you think that women weren’t aware of patriarchal genderism in the 60s? Sure, but were there a whole lot of women, specifically in the 1960s, who decided that the best way to get around that problem was to give their daughter’s a traditionally masculine name? And then hope when they showed up to one of those gender segregated medical schools that nobody would notice that the new student wasn’t a guy? And they all decided specifically on “Kelly” for this, but not “John” or “Robert”? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/204 "2023-02-06T20:02:33Z")
There were a lot of women who decided to be called “Ms” instead of “Mrs.” But I think it was more that male names sounded more succeessful than female names. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/205 "2023-02-06T20:05:18Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > No, they were naming her Kelly to minimize the damage the patriarchal genderism would do to her. According to Wikipedia, [the popularity of Kelly as a girl’s name rose in the 1960s, based on the actress Grace Kelly](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_(given_name)#cite_note-1). The cite that backs up this claim, however, does nothing of the sort. [Here’s a different cite](https://www.nancy.cc/2019/07/11/baby-names-grace-kelly/) that at least establishes correlation. It would be interesting to read contemporaneous accounts of parents from, say, the 1960s or 1970s who gave their daughters traditionally masculine names out of a belief that it’d “minimize the damage the patriarchal genderism would do to” them. While it’s a really interesting idea, I’m not sure it commonly happened, or that it would have been effective: would a girl named David or Jason or Gregory have benefited, socially, in a patriarchal society from the name? or would she have suffered for breaking norms? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/206 "2023-02-06T20:05:45Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > **Dibble** is, in fact, claiming that men predominantly control how the language evolves > > It’s not that “men control how language evolves”. It’s that assumptions that are patriarchal in nature, and that assume that it’s normative to be male, have a great deal of influence on our language, to the detriment of those who aren’t male. To you and @Babale and others, thank you for the clarification about patriarchies. However, I want to stress that I was responding to things that @MrDibble explicitly said, such as these (bolding mine): “Natural” evolution under patriarchy is **an explicitly gendered exercise with a distinct power imbalance**" “Women _never_ just silently go along with what men want” [meant sarcastically] “IME, we men tend to be blissfully unaware of our privilege and how expansive it is. We have manspread across the language like it was our own personal subway car.” “I think to me getting to do things by “fiat” implies you’re the group with the power.” " The forces of patriarchy still control women’s _actual_ bodies, and you’re dumb enough to think _language_ is out of their reach?" “… the distinction being drawn is bullshit that favours entrenched power systems.” So forgive me if I reached the conclusion – if perhaps not quite accurately – that **Dibble** believes that men overwhelmingly control the levers of power, and the corollary that they also control language is supposedly a no-brainer. Now, as to this: > [@puzzlegal](#): > > It’s not that “men control how language evolves”. It’s that assumptions that are patriarchal in nature, and that assume that it’s normative to be male, have a great deal of influence on our language, to the detriment of those who aren’t male. That has certainly been historically true, but I don’t think it’s inaccurate or dismissive to say that this has been changing a great deal over the past 50 years. I acknowledge that lots of remnants of this legacy remain, both in language and in life, but we also should acknowledge that great progress has been made. Look, when I wrote the bit that **Dibble** for some reason removed from the bits that he was quoting. this is what I said: > [@wolfpup](#): > > … this is not 1950, it’s the 23rd (or 24th, if you prefer) year of the 21st century. Women today run businesses, they work as journalists and editors in traditional and in new media, they write opinions as issue advocates, they write opinions as judges, and they are all over social media. This is all factually correct. It does not mean that we’ve achieved gender equality – far from it. It DOES mean that great progress has been made over the decades, and frankly I resent the suggestion that it means that if women aren’t required to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, then all is well. It means just what it says, no more and no less. We (as a society seeking equality for all) have come a long way, but we still have a long way to go. But that long road ahead consists of far more important reforms than pronouns or the precise meaning of “dude” or “guys”. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Why am I sure that “significant” is going to be some impossible-to-satisfy fraction for you? I have no idea. Maybe because you’re a cynical misanthrope? 😉 > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > be the result of the machinations of the kind of self-serving do-gooders that many issue advocacy organizations turn into when they become bloated bureaucracies. > > Why am I getting an image of some grudgy asshole who’s been turfed from more than one social NGO for being an annoying pedantic twit? Either that or someone who’s never actually worked with a social NGO in their life but has a vivid imagination for how they must work. Wrong again. It’s in the nature of bureaucracies that when they get to a certain size, they become self-serving and become more interested in furthering their own existence and power than in actual policy. One such organization that I had in mind was MADD – a cute acronym for “Mothers Against Drunk Driving”. Who could possibly be in favour of drunk driving, right? And, indeed, in their early stages they were influential in drastically raising penalties for drunk driving and promoting increased enforcement including roadside spot checks. Gradually, the culture changed and drunk driving became less of an issue, and at any rate, penalties were already so stiff that further escalation wasn’t a useful strategy. So now what for MADD, and all its executives and fund-raising apparatus? This: they continued their lobbying programs, only now with increasingly outrageous and useless objectives. One that I recall from a few years ago was demanding that every new car sold MUST be equipped with a breathalizer interlock that every driver would be required to use! IOW, this originally well-intentioned and productive NGO had become a bureaucratic nightmare. This is not an unusual trajectory. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/207 "2023-02-06T20:06:11Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > How can you think that women weren’t aware of patriarchal genderism in the 60s? I’m in danger of splitting hairs here, but I have zero illusions about people having notions of the patriarchy back then. It was the era of the ERA after all. I’m having more trouble thinking all those hundreds of thousands of parents were thoughtfully choosing gender neutral names for their daughters for that reason in the 1960’s. Anecdotes are not data but my friend Kelly, born in 1968 (peak popularity for Kelly for girls), has an identical twin sister, Kristin. One was much more gender neutral than the other. Now if you say that is just because the name had become popular generally, I buy that. But if it was mostly the pioneers of using Kelly as a gender neutral name for girls that were concerned for that reason, that pushes the origin back to…what? The 1950’s? 1940’s? I mean maybe. I’m willing to accept that answer as a possibility - maybe I’m just too skeptical of earlier generations 🙂. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/208 "2023-02-06T20:22:53Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > that **Dibble** believes that men overwhelmingly control the levers of power, …do you not also think this? ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/209 "2023-02-06T20:35:46Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > Were they? I just am skeptical of that argument for earlier generations Yep, they were. Remember, the decision of what to name your children doesn’t solely lie with the father (thank goodness). What is hilarious is that my given name is gender neutral, and a surname as well. My father did not realize it in 1960 when I was born and named. My mother spoke to him as if it was automatically known as a girl’s name, so he agreed. What was important to both of them is that the name is Irish, so he didn’t dig any further into it. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/210 "2023-02-06T20:37:15Z")
Languages change constantly and for all sorts of reasons. Some are very intentional responses to current events and cultural shifts – like renaming German Shepherds Alsatians, and sauerkraut, victory cabbage, during WWII. And like searching for gender-neutral pronouns in a language where none exist but there is now seen to be a need for them. Baby names go in and out of popularity with equal constancy. Feminism first became widespread in the early 1970’s. It went underground as a movement, but its basic insights never left the women who grew up with it. When I was born, the popular girl names were staid and safe, a strong ideal in the 1950’s: Mary, Katherine, Jane, Susan, Linda, Cindy. Gender roles were set in concrete. After the end of the 1960’s (I know someone born then who was named Tree, and another woman named Karma), people started treating baby names as a kind of statement of individuality, much as they began to see their own lives. Unfortunately most people aren’t very original, so they copy the ideas of others (mostly celebrities). Gender-neutral girl names are both a response to patriarchy and also a fad. If you want language to follow prescriptive rules laid down when you were young, well good luck to ya. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/211 "2023-02-06T20:59:29Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > that **Dibble** believes that men overwhelmingly control the levers of power, > > …do you not also think this? My quibble is with the subjective concept of “overwhelmingly”. It seems not to acknowledge the major progress that’s been made in the past half-century and more. If men today “overwhelmingly control the levers of power”, what were they doing in 1950? In 1940? In 1900? I was reminded the other night, watching an old TV drama from 1955, that at the time a woman absolutely could not go into a bar alone. Serving an “unescorted woman” was forbidden. How quickly we forget. I’m not saying it’s enough. I’m not saying we’re where we should be yet. But we need to keep perspective on what’s been accomplished. And I confess that I bristle at the notion that there is an ongoing patriarchy that controls the evolution of language. The linguistic biases that we see, like the default male pronoun “he” when describing the actions of some unknown actor, I believe are almost entirely a legacy of past history. Others may disagree, but I constantly see efforts to move against that, unfortunately hindered by the limitations of the existing lexicon of the language itself. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/212 "2023-02-06T21:02:24Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > If men today “overwhelmingly control the levers of power”, what were they doing in 1950? In 1940? In 1900? Back then, they didn’t “overwhelming control the levers of power”, they simply held all the power. Yes, women couldn’t open their own bank account in many states. They were legally the property of their husbands, for all intents and purposes. Of course we’ve come a long way. And I’m delighted by that, and keenly aware of all the choices I’ve had that my mother didn’t have. But it’s still true that men overwhelmingly hold the levers of power. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/213 "2023-02-06T21:05:07Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > And I confess that I bristle at the notion that there is an ongoing patriarchy that controls the evolution of language. You’ve been told by at least 3 people that that’s not what MrDibble meant. fwiw. > [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@puzzlegal](#): > > > > It’s not that “men control how language evolves”. It’s that assumptions that are patriarchal in nature, and that assume that it’s normative to be male, have a great deal of influence on our language, to the detriment of those who aren’t male. > > Exactly. Also, I agree with most of what he’s written in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/214 "2023-02-06T21:13:35Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Of course we’ve come a long way. And I’m delighted by that, and keenly aware of all the choices I’ve had that my mother didn’t have. But it’s still true that men overwhelmingly hold the levers of power. OK. In my anecdotal experience, I’ll say that the top executives of most major corporations tend to be overwhelmingly male. But I want to bring this discussion back to the _ **contemporary** _ “control of language” question. My anecdotal experience also tells me that the language that these CEOs and senior VPs speak is the absurd gibberish commonly known as “biz-speak”. No one cares. But I could name all sorts of women who are respected writers, journalists, editors, and influencers. I would posit that these people DO influence the language. And that the inequalities we see today in language are mostly a historical legacy. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > You’ve been told by at least 3 people that that’s not what MrDibble meant. Not to be argumentative, but I gave you six quotes in post #206 that certainly seem to suggest that this was a perfectly reasonable interpretation of what he meant. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/215 "2023-02-06T21:17:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Not to be argumentative, but I gave you six quotes in post #206 that certainly seem to suggest that this was a perfectly reasonable interpretation of what he meant. Who cares if it’s a “perfectly reasonable interpretation,” once it’s been clarified for you? That’s absolutely meant to be argumentative; it serves no other purpose at all. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/216 "2023-02-06T21:25:23Z")
you said: > [@wolfpup](#): > > To you and @Babale and others, thank you for the clarification about patriarchies. However, I want to stress that I was responding to things that @MrDibble explicitly said, such as these (bolding mine): > [@wolfpup](#): > > “Natural” evolution under patriarchy is **an explicitly gendered exercise with a distinct power imbalance**" 1: nothing about “an explicitly gendered exercise” means that a cabal of men are explicitly dictating language choices. > [@wolfpup](#): > > “Women _never_ just silently go along with what men want” [meant sarcastically] 2: I fail to see the relevance > [@wolfpup](#): > > “IME, we men tend to be blissfully unaware of our privilege and how expansive it is. We have manspread across the language like it was our own personal subway car.” 3: this is more a comment on why you might not have noticed how preffered men are in gender than it is a statement about who is driving language how. > [@wolfpup](#): > > “I think to me getting to do things by “fiat” implies you’re the group with the power.” 4: Here, he is just protesting your claim that my asking you to call me “Ms” rather than “Mrs.” is a fiat. It’s not. It’s a form of organic change, as are people who uas you to use some set of pronouns to refer to them. > [@wolfpup](#): > > " The forces of patriarchy still control women’s _actual_ bodies, and you’re dumb enough to think _language_ is out of their reach?" 5: Eh, here he is being dramatic. But I see how you could misintepret this to mean that there are men plotting to keep language gendered. (although, fwiw, a lot of the same men who fight to outlaw abortion ALSO do their best on social media to keep language gendered, and to mock and denigrate anyone who, for instance, asks to be referred to as “they”. > [@wolfpup](#): > > “… the distinction being drawn is bullshit that favours entrenched power systems.” 6: Here he’s disagreeing with your post, and it has nothing do to with that cabal of editors, or whatever. He’s just pointing out that your arguments are aligned with those used to keep women in their place. Nothing he says contradicts: > [@puzzlegal](#): > > It’s not that “men control how language evolves”. It’s that assumptions that are patriarchal in nature, and that assume that it’s normative to be male, have a great deal of influence on our language, to the detriment of those who aren’t male. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/217 "2023-02-06T21:26:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > That’s absolutely meant to be argumentative Hey, I confess to enjoying a good argument. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/218 "2023-02-06T22:01:26Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > Feminism first became widespread in the early 1970’s. It went underground as a movement, but its basic insights never left the women who grew up with it. Wait, what? > **[Second-wave feminism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-wave_feminism)** > > Second-wave feminism was a period of feminist activity that began in the early 1960s and lasted roughly two decades before ushering in a third wave of feminism beginning in the early 1990s. It took place throughout the Western world, and aimed to increase equality for women by building on previous feminist gains in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. > Whereas first-wave feminism focused mainly on suffrage and overturning legal obstacles to gender equality (e.g., voting rights and property r... ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/219 "2023-02-06T22:04:19Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Who cares if it’s a “perfectly reasonable interpretation,” once it’s been clarified for you? That’s absolutely meant to be argumentative; it serves no other purpose at all. For one thing, “clarifications” – even if they’re omniscient – aren’t retroactive. I listed six quotes citing @MrDibble’s exact words to explain why I responded the way I did. No, my intent here was not “absolutely meant to be argumentative”, it was meant to be explanatory. My first post in this thread was #9 to expound on how I felt about some of the general matters that the topic touched on. Post #122 was a brief reply to **Dibble**. That did it! Little did I expect that it would unleash a **Dibble** -fueled shitstorm, but now there it is. I now cite, for the future edification of all, **Wolfpup** ’s learnings about the rules of debate: Never risk starting a debate – not even with the most inconsequential comment – with an aggressively cynical misanthrope. Because it will continuously escalate and never end. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/220 "2023-02-06T22:10:37Z")
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