# Debate: You can't say anything "of substance" on this board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312 "2023-02-04T19:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/221 "2023-02-06T22:16:23Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Hey, I confess to enjoying a good argument. 😉 Not me. Can’t stand 'em. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/222 "2023-02-06T22:17:10Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > No, my intent here was not “absolutely meant to be argumentative”, it was meant to be explanatory. **Nobody cares about your explanation of why you misinterpreted anyone**. Not even your mom cares. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/223 "2023-02-06T22:18:01Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I feel unread. 😢   You mean your detailed response to my **Dibble** quotes? No, you’re not unread, you’re definitely read – read, and appreciated. You’re making the point that there were other interpretations to the quotes than those that I made. I have no particular argument with those perspectives; they’re just different than my initial interpretations. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/224 "2023-02-06T22:18:31Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Not even your mom cares. Can you please stop mansplaining how wolfpup’s mother feels? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/225 "2023-02-06T22:18:57Z")
Hey, I’m just telling you what she told me. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/226 "2023-02-06T22:32:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Nobody cares about your explanation of why you misinterpreted anyone. I don’t expect anyone to care. I do expect, however, that the **Dibble** -fueled shitstorm should be evaluated in a context that does _ **not** _ pit my “misinterpretation” against an omniscient “clarification”, as if it were a correction of a mathematical error. I would expect, instead, that the **Dibble** -fueled shitstorm might consider the possibility of subjectivity and of multiple points of view, perhaps stemming from different subjective values – in fact, precisely in the spirit of accommodation that **Dibble** seems to favour when it’s fashionably convenient. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/227 "2023-02-06T22:34:00Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > **Dibble** -fueled shitstorm Take some responsibility. Own your shitstorm. Your calling for “multiple points of view” in interpreting Dibble’s own posts is bonkers. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/228 "2023-02-06T22:39:48Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Wait, what? It was a weirdo fringe movement with some visibility in the 1960’s but I think it really crested in the 70’s and 80’s and then began its decline. The idea that feminism is about debasing men and is shrill and hateful and women sure don’t want to be shrill and hateful is very much with a lot of women who grew up in that era. ---
**Author:** ![Stanislaus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stanislaus/32/3391_2.png) [@Stanislaus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stanislaus)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/229 "2023-02-06T22:47:42Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your calling for “multiple points of view” in interpreting Dibble’s own posts is bonkers Great, Roland Barthes is crying now, nice one ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/230 "2023-02-06T22:57:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > **Dibble** -fueled shitstorm > > Take some responsibility. Own your shitstorm. Your calling for “multiple points of view” in interpreting Dibble’s own posts is bonkers. Yeah, I thought what he said was pretty clear, honestly. That’s why I wasted a ton of time spelling that out for you. I think you may be letting prior annoyance with him color your reading of his posts or something. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2023, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/231 "2023-02-06T23:06:13Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yeah, I thought what he said was pretty clear, honestly. I obviously have a bit of a disagreement with MrDibble over some of this (and it’s not the first time that has happened) but I thought he was clear too. And I didn’t at all take things the way wolfpup did. I didn’t see MrDibble saying that men are directly controlling language. Rather, language has been shaped by the overwhelming disparity of power that men have held for the vast majority of history just about everywhere. No matter what improvements are made in bringing equality (which I think most reasonable people agree is still a work in progress), that legacy is going to linger in language for generations. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/232 "2023-02-07T05:17:33Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > aggressively cynical misanthrope You’ve repeated this idiocy twice now. Is this because I said (elsewhere, BTW) that more people are evil than not? That doesn’t make me a misanthrope, Mr “Words mustn’t change meaning by fiat”. I love good people, and eagerly participate in society. Cynical misanthropes don’t like throwing parties for friends, working with social NGOs, or reading to kids in the library. But _realists_ don’t lie to themselves about how a lot of humans act, either. That’s for the people in Cloud Cuckoo Land. But you are right about one thing - don’t start a “debate” with me where you’re just going to be a counterfactual asshole who needs to put “patriarchy” in scare quotes. It won’t go well for you. All because you wanted to wave your stupid “conservative linguist” e-peen around. And hey, about that - how come _you_ get to “restate” things and that’s supposed to be acceptable, but _I_ (and others) correct your multiple misunderstandings and suddenly “clarifications can’t be retroactive”? Of course you were here to be argumentative - _you_ came for _me_, dipshit. Clearly this was personal for you. Well, how did that work out for you? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/233 "2023-02-07T06:51:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > _you_ came for _me_, dipshit. Clearly this was personal for you. How about we dispassionately look at the record. My first post to you was #122, a perfectly civil post in which I suggested that that the gender-neutral sense of “dude” and “guys” was just a natural evolution of language. There followed a series of still relatively civil exchanges, right up until your post #143, dripping with sarcasm and hostility, and accusing me of not giving a shit if people with disabilities are offended by my preferred language. By post #189 you’ve escalated yourself into a frenzy, doubling down on accusations about my alleged disdain for the disadvantaged and now characterizing my statement that some large advocacy NGOs can become self serving bureaucracies as the “vivid imagination” of a “grudgy asshole who’s been turfed from more than one”. Look, pal, as much as you’d like to believe it, there’s nothing “personal” here. We’ve had a few arguments before but I made an effort to end them amicably. Sure, I’ve eventually been hostile in this thread, too, but your sensitivity to being attacked is matched only by the astonishing obliviousness to how you’ve provoked it. _ **I** _ “came” for _ **you** _? You sound like a schoolyard bully who’s been dragged into the principal’s office. Be better. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/234 "2023-02-07T07:57:46Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > How about we dispassionately look at the record. Yes, lets… > [@wolfpup](#): > > There followed a series of still relatively civil exchanges You’re characterising posts where you called this a “silly digression”, unilaterally declared who cared about language, and as a sideline indicated you were laughing at me, to be “civil”? Yeah, fuck _that_ noise too, guy. > [@wolfpup](#): > > accusing me of not giving a shit if people with disabilities are offended by my preferred language. Well, _you’re_ the one who called their feelings of offense “absurd”, buddy. Own your own damn words. > [@wolfpup](#): > > By post #189 you’ve escalated yourself into a frenzy Sure, it’s _not_ the one writing reams about literally _something wrong on the internet_ and who can’t stick their flounces who’s frenzied. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Look, pal, I’m not your pal, friend. > [@wolfpup](#): > > there’s nothing “personal” here. Oh, it’s fucking personal -you think referencing your feverishly-imagined very wrong version of my personality is an _impersonal_ act? > [@wolfpup](#): > > Sure, I’ve eventually been hostile in this thread, too […] the astonishing obliviousness to how you’ve provoked it. _Now_ who sounds like a schoolyard bully? I _made_ you? Grow the fuck up and own your own incivility. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Be better. How about “Fuck you”, instead? ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 8:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/235 "2023-02-07T08:36:15Z")
> [@Ulfreida](#): > > It was a weirdo fringe movement with some visibility in the 1960’s but I think it really crested in the 70’s and 80’s and then began its decline. The idea that feminism is about debasing men and is shrill and hateful and women sure don’t want to be shrill and hateful is very much with a lot of women who grew up in that era. Did you follow my link and read the wiki? If not, here are some Cliff’s notes: > The movement is usually believed to have begun in 1963, when [Betty Friedan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betty_Friedan) published _[The Feminine Mystique](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Feminine_Mystique)_, and President [John F. Kennedy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy)’s [Presidential Commission on the Status of Women](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Commission_on_the_Status_of_Women) released its report on gender inequality. > > The administration of President Kennedy made women’s rights a key issue of the New Fronti), and named women (such as Esther Peterson to many high-ranking posts in his administration. > In 1963, Betty Friedan, influenced by Simone de Beauvoir’s ground-breaking, feminist _The Second Sex_ , wrote the bestselling book _The Feminine Mystique_ . > The report from the Presidential Commission on the Status of Women, along with Friedan’s book, spoke to the discontent of many women (especially housewives) and led to the formation of local, state, and federal government women’s groups along with many independent feminist organizations. Friedan was referencing a “movement” as early as 1964 > In 1963, freelance journalist Gloria Steinem gained widespread popularity among feminists after a diary she authored while working undercover as a Playboy Bunny. [snip] > > By 1968, Steinem had become arguably the most influential figure in the movement and support for legalized abortion and federally funded day-cares had become the two leading objectives for feminists. Do you actually believe that _Roe vs. Wade_ - in 1973 - was the result of a movement that gained traction in the 70’a? ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2023, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/236 "2023-02-07T12:18:31Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Do you actually believe that _Roe vs. Wade_ - in 1973 - was the result of a movement that gained traction in the 70’a? I accept your timeline. ---
**Author:** ![InternetLegend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/internetlegend/32/13154_2.png) [@InternetLegend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InternetLegend)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/237 "2023-02-09T17:33:16Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@wolfpup](#): > > > > Be better. > > How about “Fuck you”, instead? I don’t frequent The Pit, but sometimes I do love its bracing air! Thank you to everyone who already eloquently expressed all the things about the patriarchy and feminism that I was raring to say while reading this very long and, dare I say, _substantial_ thread. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/238 "2023-02-16T03:47:18Z")
[MULTIPLE QUOTES REDACTED] I guess I don’t need cites to point out the fact that this board (not just the Pit) is no place for someone with a thin skin. I’ve learned the hard way that you can take a stand here (if the facts back you up), but you _canNOT_ take people’s responses personally. And if someone insults you (or worse, in my opinion, repeatedly “stalks” you, posting after every one of your posts) you need to rise above it and stop responding to every slight. . So, everyone, let’s grow up… and grow a thicker skin. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312.md?page=11)