# Debate: You can't say anything "of substance" on this board **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 4, 2023, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312 "2023-02-04T19:35:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/41 "2023-02-05T02:47:31Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > I’m trying to remember the Mods back in 2010 or so. I only recall disliking one of them. I am thinking more 2004 - 2008, when I bowed out, mostly. I am not even saying Czarcasm was a “bad mod.” I am saying that the mods were collectively responsible for the awfulness of the board (that would be true of TubaDiva and Ed too, though I didn’t have issues with them personally). ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/42 "2023-02-05T02:50:19Z")
Diogenes the Cynic was banned, allowed back, banned again. I don’t even know how many times it happened. And it was just a mess. If the mods of the time can say, “Yeah, we handled it well!” then, um, nope to that. It doesn’t surprise me that it’s “no regrets.” The mods at the time were fully invested in the shit that was going on. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/43 "2023-02-05T02:51:26Z")
We are still here when most others died out, and you stuck around. 'Nuff said. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/44 "2023-02-05T02:54:39Z")
So I joined in 2005 and I found the environment of the board really good overall. Over the years, there was a point where I greatly reduced my participation for a while but I never left. Oddly I found GD getting unbearable until **Jonathan Chance** finally reworked the rules rules and made GD work again. I do feel like there was a 5 year period where howler monkeys were just drowning out any chance of meaningful debate in that forum. A lot of them are gone now, I’ve noticed. But the rest of the board seemed fine. * * * * * * Sorry, just remembered, **Gfactor** was a mod around 2010, he was another great mod. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/45 "2023-02-05T02:55:40Z")
You are completely failing to construct a rational argument. Let’s forget about the past. Let’s talk about the present. Your assertions are these: 1. The culture of this board is, and always has been, one of hostility and invalidation _if you try to say anything of substance._ 2. The culture of this board would be improved (that is, less anodyne) if people were allowed to insult each other more outside the Pit, at least when it comes to the types of insults you prefer. You have not said one thing in this thread or any of the other threads to support these assertions. Indeed, these two statements seem to be somewhat in conflict with each other. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/46 "2023-02-05T02:56:49Z")
You were apparently way more invested in DTC than I ever was. He had a strong personality but I honestly don’t remember a lot about him at this point. I don’t remember him being banned and returning. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/47 "2023-02-05T02:56:50Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > We are still here when most others died out, and you stuck around. > 'Nuff said. And Putin is still president of Russia, so that means he’s doing a wonderful job, lol. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/48 "2023-02-05T03:02:36Z")
You _really_ aren’t very good at this, are you? BTW, your examples of places that do it better were real winners- Reddit, where actual conversation is damn hard, and person blogs where the talk is nice and polite…and totally different from what you seem to want this place to be. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/49 "2023-02-05T03:07:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You _really_ aren’t very good at this, are you? Admittedly, my “arguing with disingenuous, hostile people” skills are not stellar. > [@](#): > > BTW, your examples of places that do it better were real winners- Reddit, where actual conversation is damn hard, and person blogs where the talk is nice and polite…and totally different from what you seem to want this place to be. Hey, one thing I won’t say about you is that you’re stupid. You’re a smart guy who knows better. So I know that you know your reasoning is fallacious. Criticism of the board is criticism of the board. I know that you know that saying, “So what’s better?” is not a sufficient answer to it. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/50 "2023-02-05T03:10:37Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > 1. The culture of this board would be improved (that is, less anodyne) if people were allowed to insult each other more outside the Pit, at least when it comes to the types of insults you prefer. That’s a misstatement of my position, so I suppose we will get nowhere here. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/51 "2023-02-05T03:13:12Z")
Further, as I said in the original ATMB post: > [@](#): > > 1. The Pit is outside the context of the original thread. > > It’s annoying to have to restate one’s case against a poster when the evidence against them exists surrounded by the needed context in the original thread. That thread was closed. Too bad. I am not going to start over here. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/52 "2023-02-05T03:16:07Z")
I find the assertion that Reddit is better a little baffling. In the subreddits I participated in, it’s the same regurgitated stuff over and over ad infinitum. It’s entertaining for about two weeks and then it becomes monotonous. And the downvote system pretty much guarantees that anything “of substance” you say that many disagree with will never be read. They may not be allowed to crawl up your asshole, but they have no qualms about effectively silencing you. It’s also basically a Millennial (and younger) echo chamber. I felt like one of the oldest posters there. Now if you argued it’s more addicting, I can see that. It follows the typical slot machine neuroscience algorithm hack bullshit. It served a good function for me providing support when I was pregnant, and I think it’s good for certain specific interests, so I’m not saying it’s totally useless. But objectively better than here? I really don’t see that, no. And I’m not arguing that this is the best place ever and every board should aspire to be like the Dope. I just think, even with its numerous flaws, it’s superior to mainstream social media in just about every way. ETA: Also, it’s a little bit of an apples to oranges comparison, isn’t it? Reddit is extremely siloed in its design whereas the Dope is as broad as it gets. You can expect less conflict when people are united around a common interest. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/53 "2023-02-05T03:19:05Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > That’s a misstatement of my position, so I suppose we will get nowhere here. If it is a misstatement of your position, then it’s an example of how well you explain your position. And this reply right here shows how unwilling you seem to be to construct actual arguments. It seems to me that what you are actually looking for is _deference_. When folks here fail to give due deference to your assertions, you put it down as a hostility to substance. And when the mods fail to give due deference to your desire to be insulting outside the Pit, you put it down as an anodyne board culture imposed by jack-booted enforcers. In either situation, you fail to support your position and when pressed to do so, you disengage, blaming board culture, rather than actually making your case. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/54 "2023-02-05T03:27:03Z")
How about this? Offer some actual examples of any attempt to say something of substance being met by _the board culture_ with hostility and invalidation. And then make the argument that it is board culture that is to blame as opposed to discrete individuals. And then make the argument that it is hostility and invalidation that is happening as opposed to vigorous debate. And then explain how you think your idea of looser moderation in terms of (insert your description of what it is you wanted to be able to say without moderation to JohnT) would interact with these factors. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/55 "2023-02-05T03:36:11Z")
You are not acknowledging my point that it’s bothersome to start over in the Pit. The thread in which I began this argument was the place to continue it. The context was there. The thread was closed. Too bad. I’m not starting over in the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/56 "2023-02-05T03:38:21Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > I find the assertion that Reddit is better a little baffling. In the subreddits I participated in, it’s the same regurgitated stuff over and over ad infinitum. It’s entertaining for about two weeks and then it becomes monotonous. And the downvote system pretty much guarantees that anything “of substance” you say that many disagree with will never be read. They may not be allowed to crawl up your asshole, but they have no qualms about effectively silencing you. It’s also basically a Millennial (and younger) echo chamber. I felt like one of the oldest posters there. In terms of culture, I have perceived it (as a lurker) to be less hostile than here on the subreddits I have read. But the points you raise I think are also correct. I haven’t been particularly inspired to post there. In fact, outside of interacting with one celeb I love on an Ask Me Anything, I haven’t. At the same time, I have chosen not to post much here, either. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/57 "2023-02-05T03:40:57Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > You are not acknowledging my point that it’s bothersome to start over in the Pit It’s apparently not a point I think is worth acknowledging. Again, you seem to be in search of a degree of deference. The lack of deference really seems to get up your garter. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/58 "2023-02-05T04:03:33Z")
> [@Aeschines](#): > > I am sure that, over the past 15 years, I have read 10x more material on Reddit than here. …Reddit is a social news aggregator that can sometimes facilitate a conversation that brings in a 100 million dollars of revenue a year, has 52 million users, while the Straight Dope Messageboard runs on hope, prayers and a thousand tiny hamsters, and if the owners (whoever that is at the moment) ever found out what we really did here would go with way of the Randi boards. That you’ve read 10x more material on a platform that has had hundreds of millions of dollars invested in it so that it _attracts_ more eyeballs and interactions is the most unsurprising thing in a very unsurprising thread. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/59 "2023-02-05T04:08:30Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Who am I forgetting? **Tomndebb**. He was _constantly_ being quasi-Pitted in ATMB for many of his modding decisions and especially attitude and tone of his non-mod posts. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2023, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312/60 "2023-02-05T04:22:10Z")
This place is a lot less hostile than it used to be, so I guess a second question would be… Why now? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debate-you-cant-say-anything-of-substance-on-this-board/979312.md?page=4)