# Debates should be scrapped **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 18, 2019, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677 "2019-06-18T13:35:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/21 "2019-06-19T02:50:18Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > If you’re arguing, you’re past the point of sales. > > Step 1 is to sell people on a vision. Haggling out the details is for the cleanup crew. If you have no vision, then jumping into an argument might be fun and all, but no one’s going to arrive anywhere. > > The Executive’s role, as regards Congress, isn’t to argue with them nor trade with them, it’s to get them thinking in a particular direction. Note I referred to [two senses of the word ‘argument’](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/argument). The whole point of > [@](#): > > a coherent series of reasons, statements, or facts intended to support or establish a point of view [. . .] 2a : a reason given for or against a matter under discussion [. . .] > b : a form of rhetorical expression intended to convince or persuade is to get people thinking in a particular direction. > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > That’s the majesty of the PowerPoint. If you go head to head with someone who clearly knows what they’re talking about and can explain it to anyone, and you’re an idiot, you’ll stick out like a sore thumb and flunk out spectacularly. That’s not a situation limited to PowerPoint. And IME if you clearly know what you’re talking about and can explain it to anyone, then you can do it without a PowerPoint; and very likely do it better. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2019, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/22 "2019-06-19T21:43:57Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > And IME if you clearly know what you’re talking about and can explain it to anyone, then you can do it without a PowerPoint; and very likely do it better. I can’t think of any talking head who was better without images, a blackboard, or something to supplement his statements. Minus imagery, you’re just giving a speech. To be sure, it’s possible for someone to teach / explain without images, but minus the images the politicos would just get up and give a speech, which defeats the purpose. When giving a speech, word salad works a lot better. You just have to sound passionate and everyone will still love you even though you didn’t do anything but make Barnum statements for 30 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/23 "2019-06-22T05:09:58Z")
The problem with debates today is they are negotiated away to meaninglessness by the various participants. If you want good debates mandate that candidates must show up for _\_ of debates that must at least have one for domestic policy issues and one for international issues and one for financial issues. The debates are arranged by a non-partisan panel that decides the questions and moderator(s) with a mandate that the questions are topical to the current times. Real-time fact checking is in place for all to see (audience, candidates and home viewers). ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/24 "2019-06-22T14:46:22Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I can’t think of any talking head who was better without images, a blackboard, or something to supplement his statements. > > Minus imagery, you’re just giving a speech. To be sure, it’s possible for someone to teach / explain without images, but minus the images the politicos would just get up and give a speech, which defeats the purpose. > > When giving a speech, word salad works a lot better. You just have to sound passionate and everyone will still love you even though you didn’t do anything but make Barnum statements for 30 minutes. You may have never experienced a good lecturer working in a classroom or auditorium without visual aids; it’s become pretty rare. I’ve heard quite a lot of them. (Also some bad ones too, of course.) And, because sunlight or the lights were on in the room, more of the audience was fully awake. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/25 "2019-06-22T15:22:41Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > You may have never experienced a good lecturer working in a classroom or auditorium without visual aids; it’s become pretty rare. I’ve heard quite a lot of them. (Also some bad ones too, of course.) And, because sunlight or the lights were on in the room, more of the audience was fully awake. Staying awake isn’t the goal. Hiring someone who can do the job is the goal. If 3/4ths of the population falls asleep because everything is too sane and reasonable, and tires their brain out having to think, well…good. The 1/4th who stayed awake will tell them who to vote for. We are trying to hire the person to give the nuclear codes to. We’re not trying to have a popcorn fest. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [June 22, 2019, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/26 "2019-06-22T19:21:03Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Staying awake isn’t the goal. Staying awake is certainly part of the goal in a classroom or boardroom or municipal government presentation. If 3/4 of the audience falls asleep, the presenter didn’t get the info across, and so didn’t accomplish their job. I was branching out from candidates’ debates; I thought that at that point we were talking in general about the effectiveness of powerpoints versus other forms of transmitting information. But it’s your thread; so if that’s too much of a hijack, I apologize for the hijack. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2019, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/27 "2019-06-23T07:31:26Z")
It’s an image thing. The last thing a candidate wants is to put people in mind of a teacher giving a lecture. The adult voting public, by and large, does not want to be reminded of high school. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2019, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/28 "2019-06-23T11:31:01Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > You think the President of the United States ever gives PowerPoint presentations? I remember when Nixon went on national TV to explain to the public what his invasion of Cambodia was all about. It probably would have been a PowerPoint presentation if the technology had existed in 1970. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2019, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/29 "2019-06-23T12:05:23Z")
And I’m sure that Nixon did it in his usual suave manner. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2019, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/30 "2019-06-23T13:56:35Z")
I’d prefer to see formal debates in the same vein as Intelligence Squared (debates dedicated to specific issues) moderated by Chris Wallace. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2019, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677/31 "2019-06-26T17:18:45Z")
LOL. \*Awesome \*idea. :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/debates-should-be-scrapped/835677.md?page=1)